For Sale Wings of Hope Announces Fall Aircraft Raffle

Ken Pedersen

Ken Pedersen

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Ken Pedersen
Less than 2 weeks until Wings of Hope's latest raffle opens up for ticket sales! All proceeds go to our free Medical Air Transport program -- a lifeline for families who have no way to access specialized medical care when crises arise. Grand prize is a 1965 Cessna 172F with less than 3500 hours and an all-new Garmin Suite of Avionics. In addition there are 2nd, 3rd, and 4th aviation-related prizes! For details go to: www.wingsofhope.ngo/airplane-raffle

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Are there any shots of the interior that you can provide? Just out of curiosity’s sake.
 
Ken Pedersen said:
Less than 2 weeks until Wings of Hope's latest raffle opens up for ticket sales! All proceeds go to our free Medical Air Transport program -- a lifeline for families who have no way to access specialized medical care when crises arise. Grand prize is a 1965 Cessna 172F with less than 3500 hours and an all-new Garmin Suite of Avionics. In addition there are 2nd, 3rd, and 4th aviation-related prizes! For details go to: www.wingsofhope.ngo/airplane-raffle
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Ken,
The upgraded avionics list looks great, as do the pictures of the plane. I read through the raffle website carefully and, although I've never bought a raffle or lottery ticket in my life, figure it's a good cause and, on the remote chance I win... it'll save me a LOT of future money and time upgrading the plane I have now.

When reading the rules of the raffle, one of the rules states that "The IRS requires withholding for non-cash prizes with a value exceeding $5000.00 after deducting the cost of the winner’s ticket. The winner pays the withholding tax to Wings of Hope, Inc. at the rate of 25% of the prize value." Basically, upon notified of winning, that person would have to pay $12,500 immediately or forfeit the prize? I understand the need to pay taxes, but that seems unduly burdensome. Am I interpreting this correctly?
 
bflynn said:
..If 12.5 amus hurts, ownership is not for you.
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I didn't say it would hurt, but it reduces the "win" feeling signficantly to "I got EXTREMELY lucky and got an airplane for 1/4 of it's value." Plus, and I mean this constructively... that's one of the attitudes that drives me crazy that many pilots seem to have. "We're part of an exclusive club, and to own an airplane you have to be rich." That's just inaccurate at best, and a real turnoff to lots of folks who could find a way to own an airplane, take good care of it, and not be in the income brackets where $12,500 is pocket change. I own a plane, and have MORE than enough money to do whatever it needs whenever it needs it.

SkyDog58 said:
I’d be more than happy to pay $12,500 for it.
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So would I. That wasn't my point. My taxes on $50,000 (the approximate stated value of the plane) would be much less than $12,500. MUCH less. For someone who makes enough that the majority of their income is in the upper tax bracket(s), then yes, they'd pay about that. I have no desire to loan the government thousands of dollars until I prepare my tax return. Of course... it's all moot. I'm not going to win in all likelihood.. ;)
 
Ryanb said:
Are there any shots of the interior that you can provide? Just out of curiosity’s sake.
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Ryan, if you scroll down to the bottom of the raffle's web page you'll see a host of pics including a few of the interior. This, like all of our prior raffle planes, is in really great shape! Note that the cockpit shots mention that they were taken prior to the avionics upgrade. Thanks for your interest!
 
Ken Pedersen said:
Ryan, if you scroll down to the bottom of the raffle's web page you'll see a host of pics including a few of the interior. This, like all of our prior raffle planes, is in really great shape! Note that the cockpit shots mention that they were taken prior to the avionics upgrade. Thanks for your interest!
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Thanks, Ken, I just didn’t scroll down far enough. :)
 
I could not crap 12.5 right now, that’s for sure.
 
bflynn said:
You are reading it correctly. Blame Uncle Sam.

If 12.5 amus hurts, ownership is not for you.
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Paying them immediately seems a bit ominous. Its a tax bill. I should have the option to pay Uncle Sam directly at the end of the year. Its true that aircraft ownership can have unexpected large bills. But very few of those bill must be paid immediately with no notice.
 
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Juliet Hotel said:
Paying them immediately seems a bit ominous. Its a tax bill. I should have the option to pay Uncle Sam directly at the end of the year. Its true that aircraft ownership can have unexpected large bills. But very few of those bill must be paid immediately with no notice.
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I’m pretty sure those ARE Uncle Sam’s rules. I’ve read similar accounts for game show prizes.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Uh oh :(:oops:
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Yeah...even as I typed those words I felt a shiver run down my spine....felt like vampire chipmunks with frozen feet....one should never jinx one's self like that. It's still a true statement, due to smart budgeting and paying hourly "fees" and monthly "dues" to myself over the years.
 
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MuseChaser said:
So would I. That wasn't my point. My taxes on $50,000 (the approximate stated value of the plane) would be much less than $12,500. MUCH less.;)
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It is "withholding," not a tax bill. The difference is, the W-2G or 1099 that they would issue to you would show the $50,000 as income and the $12,500 as withholding that you would claim on your return. If the actual tax liability is less than the withholding, you get a refund, if more you pay the difference.
 
JD318 said:
It is "withholding," not a tax bill. The difference is, the W-2G or 1099 that they would issue to you would show the $50,000 as income and the $12,500 as withholding that you would claim on your return. If the actual tax liability is less than the withholding, you get a refund, if more you pay the difference.
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Yes, I understand that.....given. In other earnings, your withholding is based on your estimated income. If you withhold too little throughout the year, you pay the additional taxes when you file, plus penalties FOR withholding too little. On the other hand, if you have too MUCH withheld, you will receive the difference as a tax "refund" when you file, but no interest or other perks for the money you have loaned the government, interest-free, throughout the year.

I would owe approx $8k of taxes on the airplane in question, and would be more than happy to have that amount withheld or file an estimated tax return upon winning and pay the figured amount. Forking over an additionaI $4,500 only to have it returned to me without the earnings it would have produced doesn't seem reasonable, but I know that's a high bar to set for the government. I understand the tax laws for lottery and raffle winnings require the 25% withholding...I just don't like it. Not at all the fault of the kind folks running this raffle, but rather the less kind folks in and behind the IRS.
 
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MuseChaser said:
So would I. That wasn't my point. My taxes on $50,000 (the approximate stated value of the plane) would be much less than $12,500. MUCH less. For someone who makes enough that the majority of their income is in the upper tax bracket(s), then yes, they'd pay about that. I have no desire to loan the government thousands of dollars until I prepare my tax return. Of course... it's all moot. I'm not going to win in all likelihood.. ;)
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My understanding is that it is a guesstimate percentage that the IRS says you must pay. When you file your return the following year, you are likely to get a portion back unless your tax rate is 25% or more.

MuseChaser said:
Yeah...even as I typed those words I felt a shiver run down my spine....felt like vampire chipmunks with frozen feet....one should never jinx one's self like that. It's still a true statement, due to smart budgeting and paying hourly "fees" and monthly "dues" to myself over the years.
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Then you are doing things right. I’ve always thought that if I buy a plane that I would figure out a proper hourly rate to charge myself and that money would be transferred to a special bank account immediately after any flight.
 
SkyDog58 said:
...Then you are doing things right. I’ve always thought that if I buy a plane that I would figure out a proper hourly rate to charge myself and that money would be transferred to a special bank account immediately after any flight.
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That's exactly what I do. I set up an interest-earning checking account years ago with one of the investment companies I use, and pay $200/month into it as "dues," plus $30/hr for flight time. I may start charging myself more.. I'm kind of a PITA to deal with.

Another change I'm going to make is to move that account to a better-earning account and forego the check-writing privileges.. I use the checks maybe twice a year, and there's other VERY safe funds that would pay a few percents more in interest.
 
Ken Pedersen said:
Less than 2 weeks until Wings of Hope's latest raffle opens up for ticket sales! All proceeds go to our free Medical Air Transport program -- a lifeline for families who have no way to access specialized medical care when crises arise. Grand prize is a 1965 Cessna 172F with less than 3500 hours and an all-new Garmin Suite of Avionics. In addition there are 2nd, 3rd, and 4th aviation-related prizes! For details go to: www.wingsofhope.ngo/airplane-raffle

2019_raffle_cessna_featured.png
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Reminder raffle started @ 6am CT
 
I got three... Surprised they’re still selling, didn’t the sundowner sell out in an hour or so?
 
I got three as well. This 172 is a lot older than the Sundowner, with a smaller engine; the Beech has a larger cabin, and probably higher resale value.
 
Yep, it turns out that most folks that win houses in HGTV's giveaways never set foot in them. If you win a two-million-dollar house, you'd have to cough up half a mil, immediately.
I will likely enter this contest, as I'm extreeeeeemly familiar with that year and model of plane, having owned one for 17 years before selling it to buy my house.
 
Unlike any of you reprobates, I've won an airplane. And yes, I had to cough up the ca$h before accepting my prize. Don't recall getting any of it back, but it was a long time ago. I do recall the State taking their share though.

That said, if you can't come up with 12 AMU's in a hurry, airplane ownership just isn't for you. Airplanes are not for the faint of wallet.
 
buzzard86 said:
I got one, but I think they quietly added 1000 more tickets to this airplane’s raffle.
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I hope not. That's arguably illegal and definitely unethical. I'm no lawyer, but I would think that would open them up to lawsuits by all the losers that bought prior to that.
 
Salty said:
That's arguably illegal and definitely unethical. I'm no lawyer, but I would think that would open them up to lawsuits by all the losers that bought prior to that.
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Sorry, by quietly I meant as compared to all of the previous WOH airplane raffles that were 4000 tickets. This airplane raffle is 5000 tickets. Didn’t mean to imply that they changed the rules after the start of the raffle.
 
It’s not illegal at all. When you purchased tickets, it clearly said there were 5000 tickets.

It is marginally stupid because they are risking a very profitable revenue stream by decreasing the value of it.
 
buzzard86 said:
Sorry, by quietly I meant as compared to all of the previous WOH airplane raffles that were 4000 tickets. This airplane raffle is 5000 tickets. Didn’t mean to imply that they changed the rules after the start of the raffle.
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:) good
 
bflynn said:
It’s not illegal at all. When you purchased tickets, it clearly said there were 5000 tickets.

It is marginally stupid because they are risking a very profitable revenue stream by decreasing the value of it.
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My presumption was that it was after it began. I'm not following how it would decrease the value if they are selling out.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I will likely enter this contest, as I'm extreeeeeemly familiar with that year and model of plane, having owned one for 17 years before selling it to buy my house.
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Don’t wait. They usually sell out of tickets on the first day.
 
Salty said:
My presumption was that it was after it began. I'm not following how it would decrease the value if they are selling out.
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The value to the purchaser. A 1:4000 chance is more valuable than a 1:5000 chance.
 
bflynn said:
The value to the purchaser. A 1:4000 chance is more valuable than a 1:5000 chance.
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Unless you came in the 3rd hour and then 1:5000 > 0:4000.

Again, if they sell out, it doesn't much matter. They maximize their input and obviously the buyers are ok with the value, or they wouldn't have bought them out.
 
buzzard86 said:
I got one, but I think they quietly added 1000 more tickets to this airplane’s raffle.
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They made that clear after the last raffle (or the one before). It's not like they added 1000 tickets after it started. It's been discussed on POA in fact.
 
I bought 3 and will scalp them to latecomers at $100 apiece. J/K
 
They’re under 1000 tickets left. It’s usually sold out by now.
 
bflynn said:
It’s not illegal at all. When you purchased tickets, it clearly said there were 5000 tickets.

It is marginally stupid because they are risking a very profitable revenue stream by decreasing the value of it.
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And didn’t the tickets used to go for $50?
 
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