Winged Warriors Cessna 210D

gprellwitz

gprellwitz

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Display name:
Grant Prellwitz
Is anyone familiar with the Winged Warriors organization out of California? Are they legitimate? They are doing a raffle right now that has a Cessna 210D as the grand prize.

They claim "Winged Warriors will offer no cost pilot training as an attempt to thank our military servicemen/women. Winged Warriors will provide for all necessary expenses so our students will be able to focus on their training without the burden of financial hardship."

It looks like Jason Wirtzer of Change Air Charters is their agent of process, according to their CA business license.

Entity Name: WINGED WARRIORS, INC.
Entity Number: C3521788
Date Filed: 11/13/2012
Status: ACTIVE
Jurisdiction: CALIFORNIA
Entity Address: 15445 VENTURA BLVD STE 22
Entity City, State, Zip: SHERMAN OAKS CA 91403
Agent for Service of Process: JASON WIRTZER
Agent Address: 1335 N LA BREA STE 2187
Agent City, State, Zip: LOS ANGELES CA 90028

They claim to be "not for profit" on their website (http://wingedwarriors.org/), but they don't say 501(c)(3), nor do they show up in the IRS Exempt Organizations Status Check.
 
Interesting...I wonder if it is legit as well. I emailed the contact listed on the site for more information. Please advise if you find anything out. I will advise if I do.
 
Here is what I received via email:

Thanks for the heads up. Winged warriors was established only as of later last year. The charge of winged warriors is not to be a flight school but subsidize training for active/retired military folks. We can only keep doing that if we raise money through raffles- yes the raffle is legit (plane was acquired from a generous supporter of our program- and other programs. Winged warriors filed the proper tax exempt application (IRS form 1023)and is awaiting their reply.
As this will be our first full year of operation, we expect to help 7-10 pilots become licensed and up to 20 in year 2- as long as we can raise the money for it.
Let me know if that answers some questions.
Regards

Jason Wirtzer
323-212-5147
jason@wingedwarriors.org
www.wingedwarriors.org




I pulled the trigger on this raffle a while ago and got my ticket in the mail which was printed for Winged Warriors by raffletickets.com.
 
I did as well thinking it was both a worthy cause and worth a shot at winning the 210.
 
I bought one. First raffle ticket I've ever bought.

John
 
I found an add where the airplane was for sale prior to being donated:


http://www.aviatortrader.com/ads/ol-betsy-needs-a-new-owner-1964-cessna-210d-now-with-fresh-annual/


Previous Sale terminated. 1964 Cessna 210 N3804Y- TT 3915 – Actual Time 3485 – TSMO & Prop OH 392 – Digital MX 170B Nav/Com – Garmin 300 XL GPS – JPI 700 EDM – Narco AT50A TSO -Century II B A/P – Avcomm AC-4X with 3 Dave Clark Headphones – GAMI Jectors -New Care Lifters – Compressions 80/80, 78/80, 78/80, 87/80, 78/80 & 76/80
 
http://www.spreadmyad.com/rapid-city...uster-sd-42000

This one states:

Have owned since 98 and fixed and rebuilt too many items to mention. Health Issues, price negotiable, but if don't receive a reasonable offer will donate for a tax write-off. Excellent cross country unit. Bruce


If I had $ and the weather was decent, I'd take a trip to Custer SD to see if the airplane is there, like my hunch tells me.
 
if they aren't a 501c3 how could he donate it for a tax write off
 
tonycondon said:
if they aren't a 501c3 how could he donate it for a tax write off
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He can't. The lack of the 501c3 isn't in and of itself damning, it can take some time to establish. Still, their mission sounds mostly educational, so it shouldn't be that difficult.

There have been a number of groups claiming to be collecting aide for returning soldiers that turned out to be scams.
 
Guess I do not qualify for training, as I am neither active nor retired. :mad2:


May get a ticket tho :yes: and hire one of you to train me:yes:...cuz it's mine
 
I bought a ticket a week or so ago. At least the raffle ticket came in the mail quite promptly ;)
 
JohnSmith said:
well good luck then, theres no plane. i tried to help you out. Jason Wirtzer is scum and he is going down hard
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You aren't helping me out. I could care less about the thing and am not even participating.

But I am pointing out that for someone who has only 4 posts here and every single one of those 4 posts is slandering this dude, you don't exactly have a whole lot of credibility.
 
JohnSmith said:
I know this man Jason Wirtzer, he owes me and few other people about 200k combined that he said he was using to buy and sell airplanes which never happened. We are looking for him now..he is hiding in california . I am a country club memeber in Las vegas nv, I suggest you people stay away from this man and his cons because he is going down hard in the near future. People are not just going to let him steal that kinda money. Im only owed 10k but theres people out there he owes a lot more ..If jason wirtzer is conected to this you best believe its a scam. I wish i never met him but hes gonna get what he has coming.
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Please cite a court case, docket number, etc. or provide some publicly verifiable reference.
 
JohnSmith said:
just type in Jason Wirtzer scam in google youll see a case from 98 where he screwed over his own family
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Thanks for the "cite." http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-9th-circuit/1483729.html But that's not quite what it says about Wirtzer. That said, it certainly brings his financial acumen into question.
Facts

Herbert and Lorine Coutee are retired factory workers with second-grade educations.   In December 1997, the Coutees' grandson-in-law, Jason Wirtzer, arranged for Mr. Coutee's Individual Retirement Account (IRA) to be transferred to Barington Capital Group, L.P., an investment firm offering brokerage services.1  Mr. Coutee signed a letter authorizing the account transfer and requesting that all communications related to the account be directed to Wirtzer.   Mr. Coutee also signed a customer agreement, which contained a New York choice of law provision.

The brokers of record for Mr. Coutee's account at Barington were Morton Gropper and Bruce Gropper (“the Groppers”).   Shortly after Wirtzer opened Mr. Coutee's account, he instructed the Groppers to sell Mr. Coutee's transferred assets and to use the proceeds to purchase “penny stocks.”   By March 1998, nearly 100% of Mr. Coutee's Barington portfolio consisted of stock in two high-risk companies, ATM Holdings, Inc. (“ATMH”) and Environmental Technology, Inc., and the stated value of the account had fallen from approximately $55,000 to approximately $600.

In 1999, the Coutees met with an accountant to prepare their 1998 tax return and to make arrangements for Mr. Coutee's mandatory IRA distributions.   At this time, the Coutees discovered that essentially all of the funds in the Barington account had been lost.   On June 7, 2000, the Coutees filed a Statement of Claim with the National Association of Securities Dealers (NASD) against Barington and related parties.2  The Coutees sought damages for alleged breaches of fiduciary duty, unauthorized trading, fraud, failure to supervise, and violations of state and federal securities laws, NASD Rules, and New York Stock Exchange Rules.

On January 30, 2002, a three-member arbitration panel awarded the Coutees $54,000 in compensatory damages, $21,600 in interest, $975 in costs, $30,240 in attorney's fees, and $100,000 in punitive damages.3  Barington and the Coutees filed timely petitions seeking, respectively, vacation and confirmation of the award.   On May 20, 2002, the district court vacated the attorney's fee portion of the award and confirmed the remainder.   Both parties timely appealed.
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FOOTNOTES

1.  During an approximately five-year period beginning in 1994, Wirtzer informally managed the Coutees' retirement assets.   Wirtzer is not a licensed broker or financial advisor.

2.  The Coutees did not take any legal action against Wirtzer.   Wirtzer's potential liability is not relevant to the disposition of any of the issues raised in this appeal.
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JohnSmith said:
just type in Jason Wirtzer scam in google youll see a case from 98 where he screwed over his own family
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If what he did to his family was illegal, why wasn't he named in the lawsuits?

What he did was dumb. Unfortunately (or in this case, fortunately for him) being dumb isn't illegal. JohnSmith sounds like an alias to me. What is your real name and why do you have such a vendetta against this man?

You are pushing this too hard, something is not right here...

-Skip
 
douglas393 said:
If it was donated the FAA has not yet changed the registration. Whether this is pertinent or not I do not know:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=3804Y&x=20&y=11
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It is quite pertinent.

It sounds like the operator of this charitable gaming operation has not yet received a determination from the IRS about his charitable status. Until he receives that, he won't be able to give the donor of the plane a FMV receipt for the in-kind donation. While the IRS typically approves the charitable petitions, if they don't all this gaming operator has is a corporation, a pile of taxable income from the raffle sales but no plane to give away. Now as the IRS will send him to jail for not paying taxes, the best he can do is to pay the taxes and to refund whatever is left after the feds take their bite. Now if he has already spent the cash on his stated mission, all the raffe ticket buyers have is a piece of paper and the warm feeling intheir heart to have made a contribution to the treasuries general fund and the pockets of a private party. Yes, sometimes it makes sense to collect contributions for a charity prior to the IRS letter, but there is risk involved to the donors.
 
Skip Miller said:
If what he did to his family was illegal, why wasn't he named in the lawsuits?

What he did was dumb. Unfortunately (or in this case, fortunately for him) being dumb isn't illegal. JohnSmith sounds like an alias to me. What is your real name and why do you have such a vendetta against this man?

You are pushing this too hard, something is not right here...

-Skip
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I was wondering also why he wasn't named in the lawsuit. It sounds like the brokers shouldn't be held liable at all since Jason was acting as the Coutee's agent; of which THEY appeared to have given permission. Maybe the Coutee's didn't sue Jason because they knew they couldn't get money from him, or that he's family, or that there was a greater chance to get it from the broker.
And maybe we are missing something.
It seems there was a lot of financial stupid to go around.
 
Skip Miller said:
What he did was dumb. Unfortunately (or in this case, fortunately for him) being dumb isn't illegal. JohnSmith sounds like an alias to me. What is your real name and why do you have such a vendetta against this man?

You are pushing this too hard, something is not right here...

-Skip
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I'd have to agree. Sounds like what he did was absolutely retarded, but not illegal.
 
I suggest if anyone wants to know more they contact the registered owner of the airplane, see post #9 for his information. From that sale ad, this owner lost his medical and the airplane was stuck in Custer SD (KCUT) 286 NM away from where he lives in Watertown SD (KATY). He's had the plane a long time so you might want to consider his disappointment and not being able to sell it.
 
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bnt83 said:
I suggest if anyone wants to know more they contact the registered owner of the airplane, see post #9 for his information. From that sale ad, this owner lost his medical and the airplane was stuck in Custer SD (KCUT) 286 NM away from where he lives in Watertown SD (KATY). He's had the plane a long time so you might want to consider his disappointment and not being able to sell it.
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While that is a heartwarming story, Custer is not siberia and a 210 is not some rare jet warbird. Any number of people could have flown this plane back to its base. Come to think of it, the story is not heartwarming but fishy.

Also, there is only one reason a used aircraft doesn't sell: The price is too damn high ! With ownership for 20 years, there should be enough equity in the pane that it can be priced to sell.
 
weilke said:
While that is a heartwarming story, Custer is not siberia and a 210 is not some rare jet warbird. Any number of people could have flown this plane back to its base. Come to think of it, the story is not heartwarming but fishy.

Also, there is only one reason a used aircraft doesn't sell: The price is too damn high ! With ownership for 20 years, there should be enough equity in the pane that it can be priced to sell.
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Probably landing gear saddles near timed out. Old 210 won't sell from that alone.
 
bnt83 said:
Probably landing gear saddles near timed out. Old 210 won't sell from that alone.
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Oh, that's just perfect. If the contest is actually legit, the winner will get to pay the tax bill AND be stuck with an airplane that will be a royal pain to maintain!
 
Fearless Tower said:
Oh, that's just perfect. If the contest is actually legit, the winner will get to pay the tax bill AND be stuck with an airplane that will be a royal pain to maintain!
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Its an old 210, what would anyone expect? 2 bladders, flat spring gear with the saddle AD, a pile of rubber hydraulic parts, an engine driven hydraulic pump etc.

There are a few AMOC's for the saddle AD...
 
Fearless Tower said:
Oh, that's just perfect. If the contest is actually legit, the winner will get to pay the tax bill AND be stuck with an airplane that will be a royal pain to maintain!
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I could afford a crap load of maintenance and gas for a plane with a $50 purchase price. :yes:
 
OkieFlyer said:
I could afford a crap load of maintenance and gas for a plane with a $50 purchase price. :yes:
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Are you factoring in the tax bill as well?

Ever notice how many sweepstakes cars and airplanes are immediately sold?
 
Great... just requested a refund based on this information. I'm not holding my breath and may have better results contacting my credit card company.
 
Well, I've seen enough red flags I won't be getting a ticket. Of course, it could all be an elaborate plot to get people to not get tickets, thereby increasing one's odds. I doubt that, though, because even if legitimate, I doubt they'd award the plane until all the tickets are sold, so the only way to affect the odds would be to purchase more tickets, not dissuade others.
 
weilke said:
It sounds like the operator of this charitable gaming operation has not yet received a determination from the IRS about his charitable status. U
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He's probably been flagged by the IRS for his political views. Supporting the troops is a patriotic thing right? :mad2:
 
The broker dealer is required to know its customers, for suitability of the investments purchased and for supervision of its sales force. Most have deeper pockets than their reps as well as errors and omissions insurance coverage.

silver-eagle said:
I was wondering also why he wasn't named in the lawsuit. It sounds like the brokers shouldn't be held liable at all since Jason was acting as the Coutee's agent; of which THEY appeared to have given permission. Maybe the Coutee's didn't sue Jason because they knew they couldn't get money from him, or that he's family, or that there was a greater chance to get it from the broker.
And maybe we are missing something.
It seems there was a lot of financial stupid to go around.
Click to expand...
 
For all the folks who bought raffle tickets, am sorry, but since the principal in this organization has not been truthful to me regarding our agreement, plus his 501 affiliation is not approved, I withdrew my plane from this scam almost two weeks ago, but see he is still trying to get more. I also donated $200. Bruce Duba.
 
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