Winged Warriors Cessna 210D

OkieFlyer said:
I could afford a crap load of maintenance and gas for a plane with a $50 purchase price. :yes:
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Your out of pocket cost for a raffle plane would be quite a bit more than the $50. You get a 1099 for the FMV of the aircraft and at the next quarter you need to make an estimated tax payment in whatever tax bracket it throws you into. With an older 210, that hit is not going to be that bad, but with something like the dolled up SR22 AOPA gave away a couple of years ago, you are looking at a pile of money. The 'ultimate archer' (or whatever they called it) went to an ATC college student who promptly had to put it onto a leaseback to cover the bill.

In this case it's probably a moot point.
 
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I contacted Winged Warriors and received this letter.

"It takes a real lowlife to pledge a donation then withdraw it when it's time to pay. Unfortunately, Bruce Duba, who offered his Cessna 210 for the Winged Warriors raffle, is that low. After years of unsuccessful attempts selling his Cessna 210, he agreed to donate it to Winged Warriors. Mr. Duba signed a contract he's decided not to honor, withdrawn his donation (by his own admission) and has tried to defame Winged Warriors. To be clear, as we always have, Winged Warriors has been granted 501c3 status with our complete and submitted application of form 1023 to the IRS.
As far as the raffle goes, as Winged Warriors will offer a cash prize of $35,000 in lieu of the Cessna 210 to the winning ticket holder. This amount is far more than Mr. Duba will ever get for his airplane on the secondary market, but we feel that although we need the funds to pay for our current and incoming students, this is the only fair thing to do. The 2nd and 3rd place prizes remain the same. If you've bought a raffle ticket and would prefer a refund, please let us know and it will be processed immediately. For those of you who'd prefer the cash, a few tickets are still available! Thanks to all ticket buyers for your support and be aware that your help will bring the gift of flight to our military heroes.

info@wingedwarriors.org
323 212 5147"
 
Mh, splitting hairs here. But 501c3 status is not granted until a determination letter is received from the IRS, the status is not granted through submission of the form 1023.
It is common for organizations to start collecting donations prior to receiving the determination, but anytime I have encountered a request for a donation those organizations have been completely upfront about it with something along the lines of 'while we have applied for tax exempt status, this status has not been granted at this time, please talk to your tax advisor what if any portion of your donation is tax deductible'. I have never encountered an organization that tried bluff their way past this pesky fact. Typically, a charity that has an IRS determination letter will gladly make it available for review or put it on its website.
Just my opinion of course.....
 
I saw the ad on B'Stormers and thought if I was going to buy an airplane raffle ticket, that this would be one that I'd feel good about.

But as a retired police officer, I trust no one unless I've checked them out.

I emailed him and asked what his IRS Tax number was as well as if the State of California required raffles of this type to be registered (in michigan, they need to get a license).

I never heard back.

I decided to wait till such time as I'd either heard back or had heard otherwise.

Then I read this thread. Which got me going. Got me thinking.

And then look what I found:

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_757165_Win+this+Cessna+210!.html

He/someone has reposted the ad on B'Stormers and they are still advertising the C-210.

Buyer Beware?
 
Well there is a "Report this Ad" link at the bottom of the B'stormers ad so someone with more info than I have could report it as fraudulent.
 
Windknot said:
I saw the ad on B'Stormers and thought if I was going to buy an airplane raffle ticket, that this would be one that I'd feel good about.

But as a retired police officer, I trust no one unless I've checked them out.

I emailed him and asked what his IRS Tax number was as well as if the State of California required raffles of this type to be registered (in michigan, they need to get a license).

I never heard back.

I decided to wait till such time as I'd either heard back or had heard otherwise.

Then I read this thread. Which got me going. Got me thinking.

And then look what I found:

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified_757165_Win+this+Cessna+210!.html

He/someone has reposted the ad on B'Stormers and they are still advertising the C-210.

Buyer Beware?
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Damn.....posted 25 May.....that takes some large balls or incredible stupidity.
 
Thanks for posting this. I was going to buy a ticket this week. I try to buy 1 ticket from each airplane raffle. I'm still sore about Josh winning my 152 last year. {Jk Josh :-}
 
Bruce - was your plane the 210?
 
I'd be willing to wager $50 he's trying to rip everyone off. I googled the tail number plane in the picture on the Winged Warriors Webpage with the unnamed soldier and instructor. It is a Piper PA-28R-200 Cherokee Arrow N29RM and comes from www.army.mil - The Official Homepage of the United States Army and is not at all about Winged Warriors. See this link and look at the second picture: http://www.army.mil/article/75622/. 100% proof it's illegitimate? No. But hijacking a pic like that along with other red flags (e.g. not fully operable Website) makes it clear to me at least it's a scam.

In my line of work I come across lowlifes all of the time who will do whatever they can to take people's money. There was an ad on my Facebook page for Winged Warriors and I followed it. It looked fishy for a couple of reasons and so upon Googling it I found your thread. I'm an EAA member, Van's Airforce member and considering building an Van's product (big commitment, taking my time deciding).

I wish there was something more to do ... perhaps it can be reported to a Veterans' Affairs group or something. I just thought I would pass along what I found.

-Matt
 
darrell said:
Well there is a "Report this Ad" link at the bottom of the B'stormers ad so someone with more info than I have could report it as fraudulent.
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Indeed, someone who has recived a statement that the plane has infact been withdrawn should report the ad
 
acluffpoa said:
I contacted Winged Warriors and received this letter.

"It takes a real lowlife to pledge a donation then withdraw it when it's time to pay. Unfortunately, Bruce Duba, who offered his Cessna 210 for the Winged Warriors raffle, is that low.
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That part alone would be enough to turn me off. Not real professional to be calling people names like that.
 
Interesting that I be called a low-life. In looking at our "so-called" donation contract. It was to be completed by 4/15/13, but kept being delayed. Anyone including Law Enforcement/Attorneys who would like to see this agreement, please contact me. Maybe we can prevent any future losses by individuals from this guy. Thanks.

Bruce
 
schwartzy51 said:
Interesting that I be called a low-life. In looking at our "so-called" donation contract. It was to be completed by 4/15/13, but kept being delayed.
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Did he ever show you a determination letter from the IRS ?
 
schwartzy51 said:
No--he never sent me an irs determination letter
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Cannot blame you for backing out then, if you had been told that the donation was tax deductible but could not be shown evidence there of.


Low-lifes back out of deals that haven't changed or been misrepresented:yes:
 
I e-mailed Jason Wirtz and asked him about his IRS status and also told him that his comments about the donor were very unprofessional and not what I would expect from a reputable charity.
His reply:
"Roger,
Once an organization has filed form 1023, along with all supporting documents and info, that organization is granted 501c3 status. Donations are tax deductible by the donors and the organization operates as a 501c3 entity. We expect to have a letter back from the IRS shortly, but considering its current problems, wouldn't be surprised if it took a little more time.
Secondly, the comments made by Winged Warriors were based upon actions taken by the 'donor' after we had spent thousands in advertising, legal fees, and other costs. Let alone sweat equity we'd invested. Whether or not you deem them professional is your opinion but we felt obligated to let our supporters know who, what and why the raffle prize changed.
A very few number of raffle participants asked for a refund and yours is the only communication which deemed our actions 'unprofessional'. There are many organizations doing great work with current and ex military (although non that do what we do) so I suggest you look to assist elsewhere.
Regards"
I think he is off on his statement about (c)(3) status. He can start to collect donations but the status is not automatically granted and could be denied. I also still think his comments about Mr Duba make him sound like a jerk.
 
+1. He sounds like a jerk. I don't give money to jerks.
 
Rogers55 said:
I think he is off on his statement about (c)(3) status. He can start to collect donations but the status is not automatically granted and could be denied. I also still think his comments about Mr Duba make him sound like a jerk.
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I am sure there are accountants or enrolled agents who can quote this chapter and verse, this is from the website of a consultant outfit that assists in filing 501 c 3 applications:


http://501c3go.com/irs/irs-tax-deductibility/

1. Timely filed Form 1023 , Application for Recognition of Exemption Under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, but not yet received a letter recognizing its exempt status,
Contributions to Organization with IRS Application Pending
When the IRS approves a timely filed exemption application, exempt status is recognized back to the date the organization was created. Thus, while an application is pending, the organization can treat itself as exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3). For example, it must file Form 990 (instead of an income tax return) while its application is pending. However, contributors to the organization do not have advance assurance of deductibility because the organization’s exemption is pending. If the organization ultimately qualifies for exemption for the period in which the contribution is made, the contribution will be tax-deductible by the donor. Alternatively, if the organization ultimately does not qualify for exemption, then the contribution will not be tax deductible.


So if their 1023 gets approved, the contributed plane is tax deductible if it falls within the retroactive date. If the application gets denied, the donor may get his 35k contribution disallowed on next years taxes.

For small donors who rely on an organizations statements about deductibility there are some safe-havens, iirc for up to $1000 per person. If you contribute to an organization but the 'IRS news' is not part of your daily reading and you didn't notice that their determination was revoked, you dont get penalized.
 
Yeah, I wouldn't donate my plane untill the recipient had paperwork in hand. Too much money to gamble on the IRS
 
If anyone wants a little more information:

Domain ID:D166241831-LROR
Domain Name:WINGEDWARRIORS.ORG
Created On:01-Aug-2012 22:12:41 UTC
Last Updated On:20-Nov-2012 03:53:45 UTC
Expiration Date:01-Aug-2013 22:12:41 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Melbourne IT, Ltd (R52-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:C13438588259125
Registrant Name:jason wirtzer
Registrant Organization:wingedwarriors
Registrant Street1:5911 trail view pl
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:yorba linda
Registrant State/Province:CA
Registrant Postal Code:92886
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.3109361653
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:socalflier@yahoo.com
Admin ID:C13438588259122
Admin Name:jason wirtzer
Admin Organization:wingedwarriors
Admin Street1:5911 trail view pl
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:yorba linda
Admin State/Province:CA
Admin Postal Code:92886
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.3109361653
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:socalflier@yahoo.com
Tech ID:C13438588259124
Tech Name:YahooDomains TechContact
Tech Organization:Yahoo! Inc
Tech Street1:701 First Ave.
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Sunnyvale
Tech State/Province:CA
Tech Postal Code:94089
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.4089162124
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:domain.tech@yahoo-inc.com
Name Server:YNS1.YAHOO.COM
Name Server:YNS2.YAHOO.COM
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned
 
Because the tax code allow it?

Dean V said:
Guys, why is a donation to Winged Warriors, the Wild Turkey Federation, any number of art museums, ect a charity anyway? Personally, I think tax deductions should be reserved humanitarian purposes.
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Dean V said:
Guys, why is a donation to Winged Warriors, the Wild Turkey Federation, any number of art museums, ect a charity anyway? Personally, I think tax deductions should be reserved humanitarian purposes.
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Definition of humanitarian:

1. having concern for or helping to improve the welfare and happiness of people.

Humanitarian extends beyond feeding, clothing, medical care, etc.

Bill D.
 
txnightster said:
Definition of humanitarian:

1. having concern for or helping to improve the welfare and happiness of people.

Humanitarian extends beyond feeding, clothing, medical care, etc.

Bill D.
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Bravo India November Golf Oscar
 
The annual maintenance on an old 210 ain't gonna help the happiness nor wellness of anybody.... :D
 
I see that Winged Warriors is conducting another raffle. They seem to have learned from the first attempt and not making any claims about tax exempt status. Since he told me to get lost after my comment on his professionalism it's not likely I will donate.
 
I find it odd there was no mention of who won the last prize, which seems contrary to SOP for these kinds of raffles.
 
Another raffle going on since they robbed the people in the first one,, you would think they would make a big deal about it and promote the winners with hope to get more donations. I expect this plane will be another "cash prize" buy the time it needs to be given away. This Wirtzer guy is a big scam artist, If you look at the location of their address it's a P.O box and they use google phone to communicate, No real charity runs like that, plus the article with the army guy is an old one about some guy from indiana receiving an award for real service to our country. Hopefully somebosy stops this scam before more people get scammed.
 
JohnSmith said:
Another raffle going on since they robbed the people in the first one,, you would think they would make a big deal about it and promote the winners with hope to get more donations. I expect this plane will be another "cash prize" buy the time it needs to be given away. This Wirtzer guy is a big scam artist, If you look at the location of their address it's a P.O box and they use google phone to communicate, No real charity runs like that, plus the article with the army guy is an old one about some guy from indiana receiving an award for real service to our country. Hopefully somebosy stops this scam before more people get scammed.
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See post #70. I completely agree. A raffle winner often does not have the option to remain anonymous when claming the prize, allowing the raffle organization to promote themselves more using the happy/thrilled winner's face.
 
I was the second place winner in the last drawing for the Beech Sierra, even received a phone call from Jason saying I was the winner. Never received the headsets or gps, and no responses to multiple emails and phone calls. Looking at their Facebook page it seems the 2nd place winner from the 210 raffle ran in to the same issue.

Looks like it's just a scam

Very sad
 
cvp4y said:
I was the second place winner in the last drawing for the Beech Sierra, even received a phone call from Jason saying I was the winner. Never received the headsets or gps, and no responses to multiple emails and phone calls. Looking at their Facebook page it seems the 2nd place winner from the 210 raffle ran in to the same issue.

Looks like it's just a scam

Very sad
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I believe charitable lotteries fall under the Attorney General of californias jurisdiction. May be worthwhile to contact their consumer protection folks. Also, national veterans service organizations have resources to draw attention to scamsters that abuse the publics willingness to help disabled vets.
 
Surprised they Haven't been audited yet. From all the postings sure looks like a scam to me. Unfortunately he's using veterans in his scam.
 
frfly172 said:
Surprised they Haven't been audited yet. From all the postings sure looks like a scam to me. Unfortunately he's using veterans in his scam.
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Karma will come around eventually.
 
txnightster said:
Definition of humanitarian:

1. having concern for or helping to improve the welfare and happiness of people.

Humanitarian extends beyond feeding, clothing, medical care, etc.

Bill D.
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If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?
 
Interesting that John Smith's original posts were deleted, appears they were spot on.
 
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