wing-over v. box canyon turn

D

Dave Krall CFII

Final Approach
Joined
Mar 4, 2005
Messages
5,022
Location
Seattle WA
Display Name
Display name:
Dave Krall CFII SEL SES, Cmcl HELI
Brian's PPL check ride write up got me wondering. Is there a difference between the wing-over v. box canyon turn and if so, what is it?
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Brian's PPL check ride write up got me wondering. Is there a difference between the wing-over v. box canyon turn and if so, what is it?
Click to expand...
I always thought a box canyon turn was comparable to a chandelle. On a wing-over, you go beyond 90*, right? (Never had a DE demonstrate one to me! :):no:)
 
I thought a box canyon turn was similar to a hammerhead -- pull nose up almost to a stall, kick the rudder to turn around, then recover -- with a turning radius about 1.5 times your wingspan. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
I don't think they should call any maneuver resembling a chandelle or a wing-over a "box canyon turn". Most airplanes that get stuck in box canyons don't have enough excess energy (airspeed or power available) to be able to complete the maneuver successfully.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think they should call any maneuver resembling a chandelle or a wing-over a "box canyon turn". Most airplanes that get stuck in box canyons don't have enough excess energy (airspeed or power available) to be able to complete the maneuver successfully.
Click to expand...

Correct. The typical situation is that the pilot first tries to outclimb the canyon, and when he realizes that he can't, he is already too low AGL and probably at Vx. No extra energy available.

-Skip
 
Since neither is in any practical test nor defined in the AFH, it's hard to produce a reliable answer. However, I've usually heard the term "wingover" applied to something like half a Lazy 8 with more bank than the PTS calls for (60-90 vs 30, and fully coordinated), while the maneuver to get turned around in a box canyon is (provided you have the energy) more like a hammerhead, a skidded turn maneuver using more yaw than lift to reverse the plane's direction of flight.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Box Canyon Turn by Sparky Imeson
http://www.mountainflying.com/pdf%20files/Box%20Canyon%20Turn.pdf
Click to expand...

That's very close to what I learned in the mountain flying instruction I got, though they had taught to use a "canyon speed" rather than full cruise when beneath the surrounding terrain, thus eliminating the need to lift the nose at the beginning of the turn.

Either way, it doesn't look much like a wingover or a chandelle.

If you were at cruise speed in a canyon, the wingover is probably a better maneuver than the box canyon turn, but this is a pretty rare situation - You'd probably be climbing already and at a slower speed.

A chandelle isn't a good option at all - Too much energy and speed going sideways too early to make it a minimum-radius maneuver.
 
This isn't a box canyon turn but it shows that by using flaps and throttle you can turn in a tight canyon with control. A Box canyon turn you would use full flaps 60 degree bank and full throttle. Bob

 
Bob, I'd love to come up there and fly with ya someday. If I left without a smile, it would have to been surgically removed without my knowledge.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
:yes: Great example Bob,... always amazed by your videos and the flying out West.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rob. I love flying out here and we have some great flying country. I looked your location up on the map and see that you are located not far from where my wife's brother lives. A small town called Womelsdorf, PA. It is west and a little north of Reading, PA. I now have a daughter that liives in Allentown, PA. They just moved back from Tiwan. If I come back to visit maybe we can get together. Bob
 
KennyFlys said:
Bob, I'd love to come up there and fly with ya someday. If I left without a smile, it would have to been surgically removed without my knowledge.
Click to expand...

Ken, I would love to share my love of the backcountry with you. I am at my happiest when I can fly someone into the backcountry and land at places like Sulphur Creek, Big Creek, Johnson Creek, or over in my country, the Minam Lodge. You may have heard me hum, whistle, or sing after landing, I don't make a conscious effort to do that, it just happens. I am that happy to be able to do these things. I really can't afford a 182 and be able to fly it. I have had a little trouble getting my new medical. I just got it back Oct. 9th. I am looking at a top overhaul on my 0-470 in my plane next annual. I hope I can make that happen. But, sure come on out Ken and we will find a place to go. Bob
 
Wow, great video. What a turn and then approach! Great stuff. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top