Will ATC issue a Special VFR clearance if the field is VFR?

[JScarry]

We flew over a coastal cloud layer yesterday into KSMO which was reporting clear skies and unlimited visibility. The approach end to Rwy 21 was clear but the other end of the field was covered in clouds and when we took off a few minutes later we had to turn abruptly at 300' AGL to stay 500' below and 2000' away from them. It would probably have been safer to request a Special VFR departure.

I’ve gotten SVFR for arrivals when our airport is IFR but the approach end of the field is VFR but never when the field is VFR. Is that something that is possible?

If it is possible, is that something that KSMO tower will do given its proximity to LAX and separation that is needed for their traffic.

 

[luvflyin]

We flew over a coastal cloud layer yesterday into KSMO which was reporting clear skies and unlimited visibility. The approach end to Rwy 21 was clear but the other end of the field was covered in clouds and when we took off a few minutes later we had to turn abruptly at 300' AGL to stay 500' below and 2000' away from them. It would probably have been safer to request a Special VFR departure.

I’ve gotten SVFR for arrivals when our airport is IFR but the approach end of the field is VFR but never when the field is VFR. Is that something that is possible?

If it is possible, is that something that KSMO tower will do given its proximity to LAX and separation that is needed for their traffic.

ATC can issue SVFR even if the weather report is 1000 and 3 or better if you say you can’t maintain VFR and request it. Will they depends on traffic.

 

[Velocity173]

Yep, what Luv said above. They’ll definitely issue it the field is IFR (unless it’s a VFR transition) but if you can’t maintain VMC, by all means request it. Whether or not it conflicts with their IFR traffic and have time to issue it is a whole other issue.

 

[tspear]

Yep, what Luv said above. They’ll definitely issue it the field is IFR (unless it’s a VFR transition) but if you can’t maintain VMC, by all means request it. Whether or not it conflicts with their IFR traffic and have time to issue it is a whole other issue.

I thought special VFR relaxed cloud clearance requirements, but you must still maintain ground visual and VMC.
Or did I get it confused?

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

 

[Velocity173]

I thought special VFR relaxed cloud clearance requirements, but you must still maintain ground visual and VMC.
Or did I get it confused?

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

You can still transition through towered airspace with IFR reported if you aren’t landing or entering the pattern (91.155).

Say the field is IFR with a 200 ft ceiling but the tops are 500 ft. You can transition through at 1,000 ft above the tops (VFR over the top) within the towered airspace and not need a SVFR clearance.

 

[luvflyin]

I thought special VFR relaxed cloud clearance requirements, but you must still maintain ground visual and VMC.
Or did I get it confused?

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

You must remain clear of clouds and have 1 mile flight visibility when SVFR. Ground contact is not required. However, it’s usually used when operating to or from an airport so yeah, seeing the ground is by default a part of it. It can also be used to transit a Surface Area. Not likely you’ll do it while being Clear of Clouds and 1 mile Visibility without seeing the ground unless you are over the top of an overcast but it’s not a requirement. If Over the Top you may not even need SVFR like said above regardless of the Ceiling and Visibilty reported at the airport

 

[tspear]

Yeah, I know VFR on top. I use it.
Just never had the chance/need for SVFR.

Tim

Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk

 

[luvflyin]

Yeah, I know VFR on top. I use it.
Just never had the chance/need for SVFR.

Tim

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Not referring to VFR on top. We were talking about VFR over the top. It’s not something you get any kind of clearance for. It just simply means you are VFR and there are clouds underneath you.

 

[Narwhal]

I've had them do it, yes.

Situation was: There was a thin broken to overcast cloud deck at approximately 1000 AGL starting about 1/2 mile east of the airport, and I was coming from the east. Theoretically I could've flown on top of the clouds at about 2000 AGL or so and spiraled down into the airport traffic pattern from directly overhead once I cleared the cloud deck. The problem is this was a class D field abutting Class C airspace to the west. Instead I requested a special VFR so I could omit the 1000 ft above cloud clearance requirement in the class E/D and accomplish a normal descent to landing from the east. Admittedly, they did hesitate at first and stated "the field is reporting VFR" until I explained why I needed the SVFR, then they issued the clearance. Maybe they wouldn't have if there was too much traffic.

 

[flyingron]

A lot of places with IFR traffic are a bit reticent to throw a SVFR into the mix. A contact approach sometimes helps in that situation.

 

[Clip4]

A lot of places with IFR traffic are a bit reticent to throw a SVFR into the mix. A contact approach sometimes helps in that situation.

If you are IR rated, current, don’t mind getting a pop up clearance, your aircraft is IFR current, and prepared for unable Contact request, turn xxx°vectors for the XX approach it does.

 

[luvflyin]

I've had them do it, yes.

Situation was: There was a thin broken to overcast cloud deck at approximately 1000 AGL starting about 1/2 mile east of the airport, and I was coming from the east. Theoretically I could've flown on top of the clouds at about 2000 AGL or so and spiraled down into the airport traffic pattern from directly overhead once I cleared the cloud deck. The problem is this was a class D field abutting Class C airspace to the west. Instead I requested a special VFR so I could omit the 1000 ft above cloud clearance requirement in the class E/D and accomplish a normal descent to landing from the east. Admittedly, they did hesitate at first and stated "the field is reporting VFR" until I explained why I needed the SVFR, then they issued the clearance. Maybe they wouldn't have if there was too much traffic.

They wouldn’t have if there was too much IFR traffic. SVFR’s must be separated just like IFR traffic except that 500 feet vertical separation may be used beneath other traffic.

 

[Velocity173]

They wouldn’t have if there was too much IFR traffic. SVFR’s must be separated just like IFR traffic except that 500 feet vertical separation may be used beneath other traffic.

And and of course IFRs have priority over SVFR. Hence the possible problem in getting the clearance.

I issued only 2 SVFR clearances in 8 years. One was for VM1. 90 % of our inbound / outbound traffic was IFR so there just weren’t many requests.

 

[Dave S.]

ATC will never issue a SVFR unless requested. So it’s up to the pilot to make the request. A SVFR clearance simply reduces the VFR weather minimums for the pilot that receives it. Usually the reason is to depart with less than 1000 and 3. But it’s possible that a pilot has 1500 and 5 but just doesn’t want to screw with cloud clearance and would rather simply remain clear of clouds in the Class D or other surface area. ATC would probably balk at such a request only because most controllers never get those kinds of requests and will swear SVFR only is valid in less than VFR conditions or nearly so. Those controllers have not usually gotten into the weeds of the rule.

tex

 

[midlifeflyer]

ATC can issue SVFR even if the weather report is 1000 and 3 or better if you say you can’t maintain VFR and request it. Will they depends on traffic.

Yes, traffic and the preferences of the controllers. Seen it done once at a towered field for traffic in the pattern so they didn't have to fly it at 500-600 AGL.