Wild IFR question that popped in my head...

Princesspilot206

Princesspilot206

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Princesspilot
Okay, so I am an IFR student wrapping my brain around this new world of flying by instruments. I have a question in my head I would like your guys' answers to.

So say you are flying along on an assigned airway. Somehow you get yourself into an unusual attitude and are now in a climbing stall. You stall and spin...but recover. You have lost 3,000ft, and are in IMC, but have recovered and are now back in a coordinated flight condition. Though now you are in someone else's assigned altitude and are within 700ft of another aircraft who is heading your direction at your 12 o'clock. What are you, the other pilot, and ATC going to do about that?
 
I don’t know what the other Pilot is going to do about it, but I’m going to maintain straight and level. If I’ve just recovered from an inadvertent spin in IMC, that’s probably the best I’ll be able to manage, and it’ll be the most predictable. Especially since ATC will be querying me shortly about my altitude (and probably heading.)
 
ATC is going to ask you WTF is going on.

ATC is going to give the other plane vectors to avoid conflict.

You are going to climb back to assigned altitude (your IFR clearance), unless they now give you a revised clearance.

You’re probably going to have to call someone at FAA when you’re on the ground, or they’ll call you.
 
tsts4 said:
Regardless they would most likely have vectored the other aircraft away from you.
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Yeah I agree. If they see someone above you doing something erratic (rapid descent / altitude change etc.) they will move the other aircraft away in short order.
 
Okay, makes sense. I am just trying to understand the IFR pilot / ATC relationship.
 
Princesspilot206 said:
Okay, makes sense. I am just trying to understand the IFR pilot / ATC relationship.
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They are prioritizing watching you, rather than a workload permitting situation like VFR flight following.
 
RyanB said:
They are prioritizing watching you, rather than a workload permitting situation like VFR flight following.
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Assuming a radar environment.
 
Princesspilot206 said:
Okay, makes sense. I am just trying to understand the IFR pilot / ATC relationship.
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Relationship?

The FAA motto covers that:

“We’re not happy, until you’re not happy”.

or, alternately,

“To err is human. To forgive is not FAA Policy”.

Seriously, though, maintain straight and level flight. Tell the controller what happened. Request vector to the nearest suitable airfield with a maintenance presence. Land as soon as possible.

Neither you nor your aircraft should continue flight; the airplane should be looked at for possible over stress, and you’ll need new trousers.
 
Honestly that is a good question for an aspiring pilot, because it is a situation that happens.

Here is an ATC recording of a Cessna Caravan pilot that got into bad icing and lost control.

First and foremost, fly the airplane. Get the airplane straightened out and level. Aviate, navigate, then communicate. Tell ATC what happened, and they will get you instruction.
 
If you are in a situation where control of the airplane is in doubt, how to interact with ATC is not the top concern.

Flying the airplane -- Silence the warnings -- Confirm the emergency

Declare the emergency then TELL ATC what you are going to do and ask for whatever help you need.
 
If the other aircraft is 700 ft away from you, headed right at you, I don't think you're going to have time to do much of anything. At a closure rate of just 200 knots, 700 ft is only 2 seconds. By the time you even notice and start to react, the other airplane will either have hit you or avoided you, and either way the danger is past.
 
You'll have some splain'n to do....and the controller's screen would be alerting the second you deviated.
 
Princesspilot206 said:
Okay, so I am an IFR student wrapping my brain around this new world of flying by instruments. I have a question in my head I would like your guys' answers to.

So say you are flying along on an assigned airway. Somehow you get yourself into an unusual attitude and are now in a climbing stall. You stall and spin...but recover. You have lost 3,000ft, and are in IMC, but have recovered and are now back in a coordinated flight condition. Though now you are in someone else's assigned altitude and are within 700ft of another aircraft who is heading your direction at your 12 o'clock. What are you, the other pilot, and ATC going to do about that?
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From attending FlightSafety for the last decade we are trained to just get back on the airway as soon as possible and advise ATC. I agree with one of the other comments that just keeping it straight and level is all you want to do until you calm down. Just saying, this does not happen as IFR is routine flying and becomes second nature so quickly. Spend you time thinking of how your going to pay for that expensive check ride Instead!
 
orca64 said:
Relationship?

The FAA motto covers that:

“We’re not happy, until you’re not happy”.

or, alternately,

“To err is human. To forgive is not FAA Policy”.

Seriously, though, maintain straight and level flight. Tell the controller what happened. Request vector to the nearest suitable airfield with a maintenance presence. Land as soon as possible.

Neither you nor your aircraft should continue flight; the airplane should be looked at for possible over stress, and you’ll need new trousers.
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Sounds like you have meet the same FAA inspectors I have!
 
Princesspilot206 said:
Okay, so I am an IFR student wrapping my brain around this new world of flying by instruments. I have a question in my head I would like your guys' answers to.

So say you are flying along on an assigned airway. Somehow you get yourself into an unusual attitude and are now in a climbing stall. You stall and spin...but recover. You have lost 3,000ft, and are in IMC, but have recovered and are now back in a coordinated flight condition. Though now you are in someone else's assigned altitude and are within 700ft of another aircraft who is heading your direction at your 12 o'clock. What are you, the other pilot, and ATC going to do about that?
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Wow what precise numbers for a situation.

If in IMC and you lose control, you’d want to get wings level and a stable altitude. You’ll likely have the leans / spatial disorientation. It’s going to take you a lot of mental energy to maintain wings level and the altitude as your body will feel like you’re on a rollercoaster even though you’re going straight. At this point, survival must kick in, fly the airplane, then tell ATC Tail number lost control please give me vectors at this altitude, and I’m hoping this altitude gives you sufficient terrain and obstacle clearance otherwise you’d need to gain altitude. If ATC is blaming you and you are still “mentally” recovering, say Tail number declaring emergency. Your mind at this point is at full capacity and you don’t have extra efforts to deal with complaints, and to initiate a climb in IMC while you have the leans is going to require a lot more mental process to do. You need to stabilize the aircraft then make appropriate changes “slowly”, if you are still on edge which you are likely, ask ATC to help you find a VFR airport to land at.

At this point, there’s nothing you can do about other traffic. Assume ATC is looking out for you and diverting other traffic around you and/or other traffic is in a better position to avoid you as well (ADSB, TCAS, etc).
 
You may hear the phrase possible pilot deviation, advise when ready to copy.
 
You're in IMC. How would you see the other traffic at 12 o'clock and 700'?
If you're counting on ADS-B, don't. It has so much lag that if it shows 700', you have already exchanged paint with the other plane
 
ATC would be talking to you after you lost 500' or so and/or it became apparent your heading had deviated. Really no reason to stall in IMC though.

What's an airway?
 
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