Wichita to Los Angeles in a 172...doable?

jfrye01

jfrye01

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jacob Frye
Hello fellow aviators, here's my question: Would it be possible to fly my '67 Skyhawk to Los Angeles from Wichita? My brother and his friend really want to do this, and I think it would be fun. I suggested it would be much easier to head to Florida or something, but they have their hearts set on California. If we were to do this, what would be the best way to go? Looking at sectionals, flying down through Arizona seems the best bet...anyone done something similar to this? How did it go? Thanks! By the way, we each weigh around 150-160 pounds.
 
Sure you can. Fly down to Albuquerque, more or less, then west.

Bone up on density altitude calculations and what to do with them.
 
Agreed. Non-event other than density altitude. And agreed to go the south route via the ABQ area. I like KAEG for a gas stop there.

Don't try to take off before the airspeed indicator says you're going fast enough even if the takeoff roll seems waaaaay too long.
 
Head SW and pick up I-40 before you get to the mountains, go west.

Self serve fuel at Winslow is behind the terminal building. They did have a nice Mex resturant in the terminal.

Nice BBQ on airport at Lake Havasu.

If you are into summer, travel early! Watch for late afternoon winds and thunderstorms.
 
go for it. i40 is totally doable, just watch the DA.
 
I did many L.A. to the east coast and back trips in my Cherokee, years ago when gas was cheaper. Over ABQ is one way, but also look at maybe going over El Paso; it might allow for slightly lower enroute VFR altitudes. If you are going to do it in the summer, I would suggest having some sort of enroute weather available, such as what you get with Sirius XM Weather on a Garmin portable GPS or ForeFlight with the Stratus receiver. The ability to see the T-storms "up ahead" and plot your routing strategy "on-the-fly" will be very beneficial. Also, expect the possibility of frequent bumpy rides at non-turbocharged aircraft altitudes over the southwestern desert, and make sure your pax are aware of this and not prone to airsickness.
 
480lbs of passengers plus fuel in a 172 means you will be packing light! The trip in a 172 is easy...flying that route in high temps at higher altitude airfields at full gross...that will require some planning!

I learned the hard way about density altitude flying from FL to CA in a 182 in the middle of nowhere New Mexico on a hot day at a 5500' airfield. We got off the ground but it was scary as hell if you never experienced being at the bottom of the performance chart in high density altitude...with a hill in front of you!
 
Head down to New Mexico,get off early in the morning pay attention to density alt. don't try to force the airplane off the ground. Have a good trip.
 
If you want real advice with all those lbs on board with bags to make it worthwhile - unless you plan on flying between 1201a and dawn you'd best decide to stay 150 min lbs under gross if you take the northern route. That will seriously cut into your range.

Real world advice to make life easier - and airports that are lower - each leg is about 3 hr 45 min - which in the average 172 leaves you about an hour of gas left - stay at airports that less than 4000' MSL or so - and while you might be at 8500' MSL to reduce the bumps and whatnot - my idea for a routing avoids anything with serious density altitude - its a 3 day trip and could be done in 2 days =-

3 Day option

Day #1 KICT - KROW - Roswell New Mexico - you can take off pretty much any time and get to Roswell in 3.5 hours - e.g. if you were wheels up @ 9a you land at 11.45 or so local - time change 1 hour. Land and spend the night checking out the truly while and campy stuff out there.

Day 2 - get up early - and your routing is essentially ROW-ELP [El Paso] - CHD [anywhere in the Phoenix area - Chandler, Mesa, someplace like that - the reason is that even if you are up at dawn, its gonna get darn hot in the Valley of the Sun around 10a, - and you do not want to be traversing the desert between Banning Pass and Phoenix during the middle of the day. Land at Mesa and go check out the coeds at Arizona State . .. .

Day 3 - wheels up by 8a - land by 11a someplace in SoCal - VNY/EMT/TOR etc

The 2 day trip gets you up and out of ICT by 7am - gets you on the ground in ROW by 1030 and then wheels up by 11a before it gets real hot - take the long slow climb to 10500 [you are gonna need to be here for cooling and to get out of the worst of the bumps] then on CHD or Mesa. . . . landing around 130-145p being very uncomfortable the last 10 min of the trip - its very warm. . . .

Then next morning - off to LA.
 
comanchepilot said:
If you want real advice with all those lbs on board with bags to make it worthwhile - unless you plan on flying between 1201a and dawn you'd best decide to stay 150 min lbs under gross if you take the northern route. That will seriously cut into your range.

Real world advice to make life easier - and airports that are lower - each leg is about 3 hr 45 min - which in the average 172 leaves you about an hour of gas left - stay at airports that less than 4000' MSL or so - and while you might be at 8500' MSL to reduce the bumps and whatnot - my idea for a routing avoids anything with serious density altitude - its a 3 day trip and could be done in 2 days =-

3 Day option

Day #1 KICT - KROW - Roswell New Mexico - you can take off pretty much any time and get to Roswell in 3.5 hours - e.g. if you were wheels up @ 9a you land at 11.45 or so local - time change 1 hour. Land and spend the night checking out the truly while and campy stuff out there.

Day 2 - get up early - and your routing is essentially ROW-ELP [El Paso] - CHD [anywhere in the Phoenix area - Chandler, Mesa, someplace like that - the reason is that even if you are up at dawn, its gonna get darn hot in the Valley of the Sun around 10a, - and you do not want to be traversing the desert between Banning Pass and Phoenix during the middle of the day. Land at Mesa and go check out the coeds at Arizona State . .. .

Day 3 - wheels up by 8a - land by 11a someplace in SoCal - VNY/EMT/TOR etc

The 2 day trip gets you up and out of ICT by 7am - gets you on the ground in ROW by 1030 and then wheels up by 11a before it gets real hot - take the long slow climb to 10500 [you are gonna need to be here for cooling and to get out of the worst of the bumps] then on CHD or Mesa. . . . landing around 130-145p being very uncomfortable the last 10 min of the trip - its very warm. . . .

Then next morning - off to LA.
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Nice plot


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If you're an AOPA member, you might check out this list of preferred Rocky Mountain Routes. They include southern, mid, and northern.
 
timwinters said:
If you're an AOPA member, you might check out this list of preferred Rocky Mountain Routes. They include southern, mid, and northern.
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Hmm.... not sure what the point of their northern route 1 is, they're winding you through Mullan pass and around small mountains, then send you D-> to Great Falls which will send you over some of the biggest granite and most unforgiving terrain in the area. i.e. the Mission Mountains, Bob Marshall Wilderness etc.. I would just stay on the I-90 route to Missoula then follow the highway through lincoln into great falls.

Back to your regularly scheduled routing.
 
timwinters said:
If you're an AOPA member, you might check out this list of preferred Rocky Mountain Routes. They include southern, mid, and northern.
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And many impractical. Go to Airnav, run the routing for cheap gas then look at altitudes.

Lamar to Alamosa is over LaVeta Pass. 12.5K in a 172 with 3 adults. Alamosa to Farmington takes you over hills that aren't always practical in a 172 in the summer with 3 adults and gear and fuel. Gas anywhere around the Grand Canyon is expensive. I really wonder if the AOPA experts have flown those routes in the summer in spam cans.
 
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murphey said:
I really wonder if the AOPA experts have flown those routes in the summer in spam cans.
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Airway nav for an inherently VFR operation - spam can over the hills? No, they haven't flown them. It's just something they can describe easily in writing and tell the boss that yup, this member services contribution is done.

I can understand the mindset of suggesting airway nav but I just don't see it as practical for single piston engine operation in those areas. IFR (I follow roads) usually works quite well and a pilot adept at pilotage is much better off than someone who is glued to an airway in the tall hill country.
 
Clark1961 said:
Airway nav for an inherently VFR operation - spam can over the hills? No, they haven't flown them. It's just something they can describe easily in writing and tell the boss that yup, this member services contribution is done.

I can understand the mindset of suggesting airway nav but I just don't see it as practical for single piston engine operation in those areas. IFR (I follow roads) usually works quite well and a pilot adept at pilotage is much better off than someone who is glued to an airway in the tall hill country.
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My suggestion for airnav is to compare the fuel costs with AOPA routes. For example, St Johns in AZ usually has cheaper fuel and lower routing altitude than most of thr AOPA routes. Looks like AOPA invoked a generic routing software with no knowledge of the geography or weather in the summer.

You're right, the member services requirement checked off.
 
I've done trips like that in a day easy. The secret is to time getting over the mountains about a half hour after the sunrise. I would do Wichita-Lubbock-Albuquerque-Prescott-LA.

You might have to go over a few hills but everything there is cross able at 12,5.
 
Any of those towns are easy to stop in overnight too if you get tired. I always like giving myself that option and don't like going to unattended airports for that reason.
 
murphey said:
Looks like AOPA invoked a generic routing software with no knowledge of the geography or weather in the summer.
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Yup, I *really* liked the routes which sent folks to cherokee and muddy mountain. I think they always have the highest winds in the regional winds aloft stuff when I get briefings for FTG --> DWX. Talk about failed mountain operations planning...
 
This can be a relatively easy flight, even in a 172. Remember, there is no such thing as a long trip, it's just a matter of stringing a series of short trips together. You do need to adjust your schedule to accommodate density altitude issues in the SW. I always adjust my route of flight to take in unique landmarks between my departure and destination points. Foe example, if you are flying between Albuquerque and Prescott, make sure you pass over meteor crater en route. It is a lot more impressive from 8500' than from the rim of the crater. Passing over Sky City (the oldest continuously inhabited community in the US) en route would also be pretty cool. Check out other landmarks that you might have an interest in and turn this into more than just a California adventure. Then post lots of pictures and video of your trip.
 
jfrye01 said:
Hello fellow aviators, here's my question: Would it be possible to fly my '67 Skyhawk to Los Angeles from Wichita? My brother and his friend really want to do this, and I think it would be fun. I suggested it would be much easier to head to Florida or something, but they have their hearts set on California. If we were to do this, what would be the best way to go? Looking at sectionals, flying down through Arizona seems the best bet...anyone done something similar to this? How did it go? Thanks! By the way, we each weigh around 150-160 pounds.
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Southern route is probably 2-3 hours faster, northern route is somewhat lower, cooler, and easier. Done them both when I lived in San Diego and did Oshkosh for twenty years.

Northern route takes you to Cheyenne, Rawlins, Salt Lake, Reno, Sacramento, Los Angeles through the Tejon Pass to miss the LAX mess unless you don't mind high density aircraft routing. I did this route for somebody on this board a while back ... let me go dig it out and I'll repost the link here as an edit.

Edit: "Chicago To San Diego Route" on April the 5th. jw

Jim
 
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Go through ABQ and you can do the whole flight at 9500 or below (that's assuming you're OK with only being 1000' above the dirt). There's some neat volcanic cores and sinkholes to the west of Albuquerque and if you're up too high you'll miss them.

We just came back to Denver from San Diego (beginning of April) via Phoenix and Albuqueque. Its an easy flight for a flat lander without mountain experience. The DA will be high, but you won't have to worry about trying to climb over tall mountains. There's plenty of room to go around ridges and peaks.
 
absolutely doable. I did this trip in a Cherokee 180 - cyclonically. I did hit NE on the way out west, the map doesn't show that.
 
Who would fly to southern or central California through Cheyenne?

Can AOPA read a map?
 
weirdjim said:
Because it is lower, cooler, and you've got I-80 underneath you from Lincoln Nebraska to Sacramento.

Jim
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Guess I need to add some words - why would someone take I=80 to go from Wichita to Los Angeles?
 
I think your definition of lower is...well...weird.
 
weirdjim said:
Been there, done that? Then you would know that it was LAS vegas, NM. And the terrain thereabout ain't all that hospitable.

Jim
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Because Nevada is such a paradise.
 
EdFred said:
Because Nevada is such a paradise.
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Salt Lake direct Lucin at 8.5 you are within gliding distance of shore or the island. Once at Lucin, Wells, Elko, Battle Mountain, (Winnemucca if you must), Lovelock, Reno, Truckee... you've got I-80 under you the whole way to Sacramento, where you pick up I-5 to LA.

If you don't like the idea of overwater Salt Lake, go south around the end of the lake direct Wendover, thence Wells ...



Jim
 
I guess never heard that they removed I-40 from Tucumcari to Kingman, I should update my maps.
 
weirdjim said:
Been there, done that? Then you would know that it was LAS vegas, NM. And the terrain thereabout ain't all that hospitable.

Jim
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LV New Mexico, not Nevada. But I'd recommend ICT-TBE-KRTN for the birgers - CIM-FTI (the VOR at KLVS aka Las Vegas, NM)-TAFOY then hang a right-KINW-overfly Sedona for the view-KPRC-KEED (Needles to stay out of the MOAs and Rs)-ZELMA-KTNP-PSP-hang another right-KBNG (Banning)-KRIV- and you're in the LA Basin area. About 1100 nm. Prescott is a great place to stay overnight unless you want to do the carrier landing at Sedona on top of the mesa. Flight between Prescott & LA is easy at 9500 (stay a bit cooler). Wichita to TBS is 7500 easy then up to 10.5 into Raton. The from Raton into Prescott, back to 10.5. Somewhere between Raton & Prescott you'll need to stop for fuel.
 
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