Why so many RV12's for sale recently?

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Todd82

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Todd
Did I miss some big pending AD or something else catastrophic that has everyone dumping these? There seems to suddenly be a bunch on the market.

Or am I just crazy? (I am, but...)
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Maybe just the hot market is too inviting.
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Todd82 said:
Did I miss some big pending AD or something else catastrophic that has everyone dumping these? There seems to suddenly be a bunch on the market.

Or am I just crazy? (I am, but...)
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Maybe the older crowd that go for the light sport are aging out and trading them for a camper or Motorhome.
 
Or maybe the older crowd that go for the light sport have looked at their purchasing power significantly diminish and are divesting themselves of discretionary items applying the proceeds to more essential concerns.
 
If it was socioeconomic reasons, it wouldn't be focused seemingly on just RV-12's.

There's no sudden glut of any other specific LSA for example.
 
Todd82 said:
If it was socioeconomic reasons, it wouldn't be focused seemingly on just RV-12's.

There's no sudden glut of any other specific LSA for example.
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Ok, fair enough. What are your thoughts?
 
So I just looked on Barnstormers and The Controller and 12’s didn’t seem any more prevalent than the other RV models listed for sale. Also there’s nothing about some overarching issue with the airframe or engine over on VAF or FB. So I’m not sure what’s the genesis of your question.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Ok, fair enough. What are your thoughts?
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My thought was I missed something in regards to an AD, etc. that people were trying to dump them quick, as I asked in the OP. Or worse yet like those AMD's with the wings fluttering off like 15 years ago.

And considering I'm interested in them if I fell into a huge ugly surprise like that it wouldn't be ideal.
 
tsts4 said:
So I just looked on Barnstormers and The Controller and 12’s didn’t seem any more prevalent than the other RV models listed for sale. Also there’s nothing about some overarching issue with the airframe or engine over on VAF or FB. So I’m not sure what’s the genesis of your question.
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I've had 12's on my radar for awhile now, seemed a sudden surge in them the past couple weeks.
 
Is there even a glut of RV-12s though? Seems like a normal amount for sale to me.
 
Don't over think it. It's a great LSA that can be factory built as SLSA or kit built as ELSA or EAB. Cost is reasonable and performance is quite good. There are a number of RV10's for sale also.

If there were a flood of the market of RV12's (not sure there is) it might be because some flying light sport planes are anticipating the magical "mosaic" to appear and grant us Light Sport Certificate holders the ability to fly six seat, 200hp, 150 knot airplanes with the same certificate we have now and a driver's license medical.

I think that is a pipe dream but I've been wrong before ... been a long time though. ;)
 
Stock market declined 16%, maybe a bunch of 12 owners got their margins called.
 
I heard the FAA may release an NPRM at Oshkosh this year that will allow operation of many more aircraft than are allowed currently under Sport License certification. If true this should devalue many LSAs.
 
Iflydogs said:
I heard the FAA may release an NPRM at Oshkosh this year that will allow operation of many more aircraft than are allowed currently under Sport License certification. If true this should devalue many LSAs.
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We've been anticipating that announcement "this year at Oshkosh" for how many years now?
 
And why would the FAA either delay putting out the NPRM or rush it through just so they can announce it at Airventure? They will likely publish it when it is ready, not any later or earlier. Well, at least that is how they should do it.
 
I think there's always been more 12's for sale. I don't think this is something new.
 
There’s nothing wrong with the 12. The recent SBs are a minor irritant, nothing more. I think we still spend less complying with Van’s SBs than most people spend on a normal annual.

I haven’t looked to see how many 12s are for sale right now, but I remember when it wasn’t unusual to see 10 or more listed. A few months ago there were zero. I think it’s just the luck of the draw. The only thing that would make me more likely to sell now is the fact that we could unload ours for probably 10-20K more than I paid for it six years ago.
 
DaleB said:
There’s nothing wrong with the 12. The recent SBs are a minor irritant, nothing more. I think we still spend less complying with Van’s SBs than most people spend on a normal annual.

I haven’t looked to see how many 12s are for sale right now, but I remember when it wasn’t unusual to see 10 or more listed. A few months ago there were zero. I think it’s just the luck of the draw. The only thing that would make me more likely to sell now is the fact that we could unload ours for probably 10-20K more than I paid for it six years ago.
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Maybe that's it. I've been watching the market for a few months now and when I started there were next to none on the market, now a bunch the past couple weeks.
 
hindsight2020 said:
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This post is offensive. It seems a facile statement that if there is a rumor that a rule might devalue something, it’s price would go down. If you have a counterpoint to that, make it and dispense with puerile videos.
 
Well, some fleet sizes perhaps. This is based on the US registry as of January 1. I have done a little cleanup to combine entries that are obviously referring to the same company.

Here's the listing of Special Light Sport aircraft with 100 or more entries:
__________Manufacturer_________|_Aircraft_|
_______FLIGHT DESIGN GMBH______|____294___|
_CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS SPOL SRO_|____246___|
________CUB CRAFTERS INC_______|____224___|
_____________TECNAM____________|____181___|
_______CESSNA AIRCRAFT CO______|____165___|
__AMERICAN LEGEND AIRCRAFT CO__|____138___|
___________AEROPRO CZ__________|____110___|
_JABIRU USA SPORT AIRCRAFT LLC_|____107___|
_______ICON AIRCRAFT INC_______|____105___|

Where's Vans? It has 99 entries, just below the threshold for my table.

This table is for Experimental Light Sport Aircraft. ELSAs, to a large extent, suffer from the same problem as the Experimental Amateur-Built category, where the manufacturer name is often whatever the assembler wants it to be. So the numbers are probably a bit higher.
______MFR Name_____|_Count_|
_VANS AIRCRAFT INC_|__471__|
__POWRACHUTE CORP__|__423__|
______BUCKEYE______|__344__|
____QUICKSILVER____|__187__|
_____SIX CHUTER____|__178__|
__CUBCRAFTERS INC__|__156__|
______AIRBORNE_____|__143__|
____AIR CREATION___|__139__|
________RANS_______|__115__|
____QUAD CITIES____|__114__|
______INFINITY_____|__102__|


Note that, for the ELSAs, Vans does come out on top.

(Repeat, I'd *sure* like POA to enable the Xenforo table tools....)

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
This table is for Experimental Light Sport Aircraft. ELSAs, to a large extent, suffer from the same problem as the Experimental Amateur-Built category, where the manufacturer name is often whatever the assembler wants it to be. So the numbers are probably a bit higher.
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In theory (and I’m sure Ron knows this, but just for the record) an E-LSA should have the kit manufacturer’s name listed on the certificate as the manufacturer, since each airplane should be an exact copy of the original.

That, however, is not how things have always worked. I’ve got an E-LSA RV-12, and the builder’s name is listed as the manufacturer, as if it were E-AB. So Ron’s work collecting the numbers is challenging, to say the least.
 
DaleB said:
In theory (and I’m sure Ron knows this, but just for the record) an E-LSA should have the kit manufacturer’s name listed on the certificate as the manufacturer, since each airplane should be an exact copy of the original.

That, however, is not how things have always worked. I’ve got an E-LSA RV-12, and the builder’s name is listed as the manufacturer, as if it were E-AB. So Ron’s work collecting the numbers is challenging, to say the least.
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One thing for the ELSAs...nearly 75% of them are "Grandfathered" ELSAs. From the initiation of the Light Sport category until January 31st 2008, homebuilders could license their Sport Pilot-eligible aircraft as ELSA instead of Experimental Amateur-Built. Naturally, the manufacturer's names are going to have the same sort of variation as the EABs.

If you look at just the non-grandfathered ELSAs, the RV-12 wins hands-down, with over half the entries.

In addition, there's a lack of standardization in the Special Light Sport Aircraft registry as well. For instance Czech Aircraft Works products are registered with four different name variations:

CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS SPOL SRO
CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS SRO
CZECH SPORT AIRCRAFT A S
CZECH SPORT AIRCRAFT AS

Most are Sportcruisers, but the last category is all Piper Sports. Note that it differs from the previous entry by deleting the space between the "A" and the "S".

Ron Wanttaja
 
Van's says 757 total RV-12s flying, but there's no breakdown of E-LSA, E-AB, or S-LSA. I think it's safe to say that E-LSA makes up the bulk of them. I got up to 690 just counting the ones that show "Vans Aircraft" as the manufacturer. That doesn't include those that have the builder's name as the manufacturer (including mine).
 
DaleB said:
Van's says 757 total RV-12s flying, but there's no breakdown of E-LSA, E-AB, or S-LSA. I think it's safe to say that E-LSA makes up the bulk of them. I got up to 690 just counting the ones that show "Vans Aircraft" as the manufacturer. That doesn't include those that have the builder's name as the manufacturer (including mine).
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For once, me and Vans are close. :)

I get 735 entries for RV-12s in all certification categories, of which 77 don't specify what category they're in. Since my list only includes the US-registered ones, this is a reasonable match.

I use this as my filter:

Like "*RV-12*" Or Like "*RV 12*" Or Like "*RV12*" Or Like "*VANS 12*"

As far as certification category, I get:

81 as variations of Experimental Amateur-Built

3 as ELSA registered prior to 01/31/08

464 as Experimental Light Sport

1 as "ELSA Operating Light-Sport Previously issued cert under 21.190"

3 as "Unmanned Aircraft - Market Survey" (!)

99 as Special Light Sport

...and as mentioned, 77 don't indicate a certification category.

I *think* the "Unmanned - Market Survey" ones are entry errors. N511PN is one example.

Ron Wanttaja
 
A combination of natural fluctuation of the number of planes for sale. Add in the fact the number of planes is small overall, so any fluctuations will have large % swing.

But sales seem to be slowing and for sale inventory seems to be rising across the board - that is probably boosting the number of RV12s on Trade a plane.
 
WDD said:
A combination of natural fluctuation of the number of planes for sale. Add in the fact the number of planes is small overall, so any fluctuations will have large % swing.

But sales seem to be slowing and for sale inventory seems to be rising across the board - that is probably boosting the number of RV12s on Trade a plane.
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Which means the prices are soon to drop across the board.
 
WDD said:
A combination of natural fluctuation of the number of planes for sale. Add in the fact the number of planes is small overall, so any fluctuations will have large % swing.

But sales seem to be slowing and for sale inventory seems to be rising across the board - that is probably boosting the number of RV12s on Trade a plane.
Click to expand...

So whatcha sayin is, they's a hole mess of 'em and that's why they's mo for sale?
 
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