Why no HILPT here... sometimes?

Andrew

Andrew

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Andrew
Hi all,

Running a simulator (using current Navigraph and Navigraph Charts) as well as Foreflight and Garmin Pilot.

RWY 20R into KSNA. Routing is via SLI, but not specifically with the SLI transition.

OBDVa9I.jpg
ctRBBWE.jpg


When using the ILS approach, SLI transition, devices show the HILPT.
However, when choosing the SAGER transition, via SLI, at least, on some devices the HILPT is missing (e.g. Foreflight and Navigraph, both Jeppesen-based) and on Garmin Pilot, the HILPT is present.

Can anyone suggest why the HILPT might be hidden on the Jeppesen-based products?

thanks
 
I dunno as I don't use FF, but IIRC the ability to load and see the approach on a flight plan in GarminPilot is a relatively recent addition. There was geo-ref'd plates that would overlay on the main map in GarminPilot, but back in the day on the flight plan screen the menu didn't give you an option for the destination to actually load an approach to flight plan itself.
 
I get the HILPT in Foreflight when loading he SAGER transition, with or without SLI.

Same in the Garmin Trainers with the Jepp database. No different than with the Garmin database.

This is from the GTN trainer with the Jepp database loaded. I can show you a pic from Foreflight if you wish.

upload_2023-2-13_8-56-29.png
 
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midlifeflyer said:
I get the HILPT in Foreflight when loading he SAGER transition, with or without SLI.

Same in the Garmin Trainers with the Jepp database. No different than with the Garmin database.

This is from the GTN trainer with the Jepp database loaded. I can show you a pic from Foreflight if you wish.

View attachment 114922
Click to expand...
Thanks Mark - interesting, someone else trying it out with FF didn't get that. I'll double check with them to see which data cycle they had.
 
Andrew said:
Hi all,

Running a simulator (using current Navigraph and Navigraph Charts) as well as Foreflight and Garmin Pilot.

RWY 20R into KSNA. Routing is via SLI, but not specifically with the SLI transition.

OBDVa9I.jpg
ctRBBWE.jpg


When using the ILS approach, SLI transition, devices show the HILPT.
However, when choosing the SAGER transition, via SLI, at least, on some devices the HILPT is missing (e.g. Foreflight and Navigraph, both Jeppesen-based) and on Garmin Pilot, the HILPT is present.

Can anyone suggest why the HILPT might be hidden on the Jeppesen-based products?

thanks
Click to expand...
Not quite sure what you mean when you reference a SLI transition and a SAGER transition. There is only one thing on the Chart that might be called a transition. That’s the SLI Feeder. On any GPS Navigator, regardless of which Data Base it uses, the HILPT should be there unless you had inhibited it. I don’t get why you mention Foreflight and I don’t know what Navigraph is.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I get the HILPT in Foreflight when loading he SAGER transition, with or without SLI.

Same in the Garmin Trainers with the Jepp database. No different than with the Garmin database.

This is from the GTN trainer with the Jepp database loaded. I can show you a pic from Foreflight if you wish.

View attachment 114922
Click to expand...
I’m confused. How does Foreflight figure into this? They don’t make Navigators and they don’t provide data bases.
 
luvflyin said:
Not quite sure what you mean when you reference a SLI transition and a SAGER transition. There is only one thing on the Chart that might be called a transition. That’s the SLI Feeder. On any GPS Navigator, regardless of which Data Base it uses, the HILPT should be there unless you had inhibited it. I don’t get why you mention Foreflight and I don’t know what Navigraph is.
Click to expand...
"Transition" is a term the GPS uses to identify how you get to the approach. It encompasses what are technically transition routes, as well as IAFs and the "Vector" transition.

upload_2023-2-13_9-7-48.png
 
luvflyin said:
I’m confused. How does Foreflight figure into this? They don’t make Navigators and they don’t provide data bases.
Click to expand...
Maybe I was confused - I thought he mentioned Foreflight as a place where it was seen, not as the creator of the data.
 
Andrew said:
Thanks Mark - interesting, someone else trying it out with FF didn't get that. I'll double check with them to see which data cycle they had.
Click to expand...
I don't know whether or not this is the case, but I guess it's possible that whether FF depicts the hold or not is based on the subscription level. Another "maybe" - what was the full route. You can see I tested it with a flight from Hawthorne.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I don't know whether or not this is the case, but I guess it's possible that whether FF depicts the hold or not is based on the subscription level. Another "maybe" - what was the full route. You can see I tested it with a flight from Hawthorne.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mark-

KMYF > CWARD2.SLI > KSNA ILS RWY 20R SAGER transition

vs. SLI transition.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Maybe I was confused - I thought he mentioned Foreflight as a place where it was seen, not as the creator of the data.
Click to expand...
Me to, that he had seen it on Foreflight. I had plugged in a flight from KMYF. Got this. I have never seen a PT, in lieu or not, displayed on Foreflight.

upload_2023-2-13_6-28-56.png
 
luvflyin said:
Me to, that he had seen it on Foreflight. I had plugged in a flight from KMYF. Got this. I have never seen a PT, in lieu or not, displayed on Foreflight.

View attachment 114924
Click to expand...
I don't see any approach loaded on your screenshot.

But, aside from that, that's why I asked about subscription level. I see them all the time.
upload_2023-2-13_9-39-4.png
 
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Thanks everyone - Just to clarify: I'm referencing devices as viewing devices, not as data providers.

Interesting that on FF it draws it differently for different transitions, though with otherwise identical flight paths.

Some devices show the HILPT, some don't. Here's how it appears on my iPad with Garmin Pilot, although it's plotting the inbound course to SAGER as coming from my present position in NJ, rather than somewhere in California :) When it's from SLI the flight path is adjusted for the reversal.

S6Z03bQ.jpg
 
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Side question: can I make my images smaller here, or do I have to reduce them before linking? Could have sworn I saw something here somewhere.
 
Andrew said:
Side question: can I make my images smaller here, or do I have to reduce them before linking? Could have sworn I saw something here somewhere.
Click to expand...
Via browser on an iPhone, you can select to insert the image as a thumbnail.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Even shows you going SLI > SAGER > SLI > SAGER, then hold , just like you told it to.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I plugged that in after reading Andrews post #11. Before that I had just put in the TEC Route. And I hadn't gone to 'Procedure' to pick an Approach. One thing I found that I hadn't seen before was being able to choose between Jeppesen and FAA plates. That choice seems to only come up on the ILS and LOC Approach's. Not the LDA, BC and RNAV Approaches. I guess there must be some logic to it, but I can't think of it.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. I plugged that in after reading Andrews post #11. Before that I had just put in the TEC Route. And I hadn't gone to 'Procedure' to pick an Approach. One thing I found that I hadn't seen before was being able to choose between Jeppesen and FAA plates. That choice seems to only come up on the ILS and LOC Approach's. Not the LDA, BC and RNAV Approaches. I guess there must be some logic to it, but I can't think of it.
Click to expand...
I've been trying to figure that out too. Not important enough to me to ask them. It doesn't even seem to be ILS-specific.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I've been trying to figure that out too. Not important enough to me to ask them. It doesn't even seem to be ILS-specific.
Click to expand...
I'll ask. @John Collins has already stopped in here on this thread.
"...One thing I found that I hadn't seen before was being able to choose between Jeppesen and FAA plates. That choice seems to only come up on the ILS and LOC Approach's. Not the LDA, BC and RNAV Approaches. I guess there must be some logic to it, but I can't think of it..."
 
@luvflyin I believe that is because some procedures have multiple charts, particularly ILS, like ILS OR LOC 36R ... ILS RWY 36R SA CAT I...ILS RWY 36R CAT II & III. My guess is that the FAA charts come along for the ride as a part of the selection logic.
 
John Collins said:
@luvflyin I believe that is because some procedures have multiple charts, particularly ILS, like ILS OR LOC 36R ... ILS RWY 36R SA CAT I...ILS RWY 36R CAT II & III. My guess is that the FAA charts come along for the ride as a part of the selection logic.
Click to expand...
That seems consistent with what I've been seeing.
 
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