Why doesn't KVNY have a GPS approach of any kind, and will it get one?

N1120A

N1120A

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N1120A
Perhaps @aterpster can answer. KVNY is a glaring example of a very busy airport with absolutely no available GPS approach. 2 ILS approaches, 2 VOR and an LDA off Burbank's ILS, but nothing RNAV/RNP/GPS. Anyone know the reason why and further anyone know when/if it will get one? Seems a glaring omission.
 
N1120A said:
Perhaps @aterpster can answer. KVNY is a glaring example of a very busy airport with absolutely no available GPS approach. 2 ILS approaches, 2 VOR and an LDA off Burbank's ILS, but nothing RNAV/RNP/GPS. Anyone know the reason why and further anyone know when/if it will get one? Seems a glaring omission.
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Just a guess:

1. Constant activity revising SIDs.
2. The airport manager hasn't requested any RNAV IAPs.
 
Maybe because no one has complained that there isn't one. I can see no procedural reason not to other than the time and expense to do it.
 
N1120A said:
Perhaps @aterpster can answer. KVNY is a glaring example of a very busy airport with absolutely no available GPS approach. 2 ILS approaches, 2 VOR and an LDA off Burbank's ILS, but nothing RNAV/RNP/GPS. Anyone know the reason why and further anyone know when/if it will get one? Seems a glaring omission.
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if a GPS approach wouldn’t deliver better minimums than the VOR approach, there’s no incentive... just use the GPS to fly the overlay of the VOR approach.
 
It’s becoming a sucky airport for small pistons. ATC will run you all over the place to move you out of they way for the jets. Vectors, holds, S turns, 360s, everything. Now i just go there VFR if possible. Departing I’ve requested to depart from the taxiways short of the numbers to not get stuck in a long line of jets awaiting releases. Sorry for the rant but at this point VNY is all VFR for me, not even flight following. I get the hell out of there ASAP and the request whatever I need enroute.
 
KVNY is "captured" as an ugly stepchild of KBUR. Further, because of terrain and LAX airspace it doesn't have an approach from the south.

The airlines always win when there is a conflict.

The FAA is the lapdog of the airlines...oh, BTW, and Boeing.
 
Geosync said:
It’s becoming a sucky airport for small pistons. ATC will run you all over the place to move you out of they way for the jets. Vectors, holds, S turns, 360s, everything. Now i just go there VFR if possible. Departing I’ve requested to depart from the taxiways short of the numbers to not get stuck in a long line of jets awaiting releases. Sorry for the rant but at this point VNY is all VFR for me, not even flight following. I get the hell out of there ASAP and the request whatever I need enroute.
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Not only is the airport subservient to Burbank, it is crowding out light airplanes because the biz jets were kicked out of the Peoples Republic of Santa Monica.
 
I have been with a pilot, based at VNY who shoots the approach into KWHP (Whiteman) and breaks off to VNY.................to save time.
 
Rgbeard said:
With 2 ILS, 2 VOR, etc. etc., why does it need one?
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1) I know people who are removing NAV radios and going WAAS GPS only.

2) The reliability and sensitivity advantage of GPS in small airplanes.

PaulMillner said:
if a GPS approach wouldn’t deliver better minimums than the VOR approach, there’s no incentive... just use the GPS to fly the overlay of the VOR approach.
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Then what is the point of a GPS approach at any airport with a ground based approach?

Geosync said:
It’s becoming a sucky airport for small pistons. ATC will run you all over the place to move you out of they way for the jets. Vectors, holds, S turns, 360s, everything. Now i just go there VFR if possible. Departing I’ve requested to depart from the taxiways short of the numbers to not get stuck in a long line of jets awaiting releases. Sorry for the rant but at this point VNY is all VFR for me, not even flight following. I get the hell out of there ASAP and the request whatever I need enroute.
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Why not flight following?

aterpster said:
KVNY is "captured" as an ugly stepchild of KBUR. Further, because of terrain and LAX airspace it doesn't have an approach from the south.

The airlines always win when there is a conflict.

The FAA is the lapdog of the airlines...oh, BTW, and Boeing.
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KVNY is like 4 times as busy as KBUR, so that makes no sense. No approach from the south makes sense - KBUR doesn't either.

kgruber said:
I have been with a pilot, based at VNY who shoots the approach into KWHP (Whiteman) and breaks off to VNY.................to save time.
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Well, that VOR approach into KWHP puts you on a nice base for KVNY.
 
mcmanigle said:
That's pretty cool! Is that a common pattern? First one I've seen (not that I really get around).
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The only other one I’ve ever seen that uses the Localizer to another airport is the LDA-A to Pearson Field KVUO. It uses one of Portland’s KPDX localizers.
 
mcmanigle said:
That's pretty cool! Is that a common pattern? First one I've seen (not that I really get around).
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That was the first IAP in KVNY. Been there since at least 1960. In those days, it was the only IAP. There was no VNY VOR and no IVNY ILS.

Also, note the ILS has no LOC minimums and no collocated DME.
 
aterpster said:
That was the first IAP in KVNY. Been there since at least 1960. In those days, it was the only IAP. There was no VNY VOR and no IVNY ILS.

Also, note the ILS has no LOC minimums and no collocated DME.
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Which makes it even more odd that they have no GPS approach. If the LOC or even just the GS goes out, the minimums suck. When they go to 34, it really isn't an issue, as that almost certainly means the ceilings aren't low.
 
N1120A said:
Which makes it even more odd that they have no GPS approach. If the LOC or even just the GS goes out, the minimums suck. When they go to 34, it really isn't an issue, as that almost certainly means the ceilings aren't low.
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That's a question for the airport manager. Increasingly, the FAA defers to the airport manager to make requests for new IAPs.
 
Ventucky Red said:
Makes for a good practice... but good luck in getting it on any other than a Sunday morning... at least that has been my experience coming in from KCMA
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Tell them your Glideslope failed and you don't have DME. They'll have to give you the LDA or VOR-A. Now you may get vectored around so much for spacing that you might cry 'Uncle' and say I wanna go back to CMA.
 
N1120A said:
Then what is the point of a GPS approach at any airport with a ground based approach?
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Because that makes it easier to justify decommissioning the ground-based nav aids, of course.
 
Geosync said:
Sorry for the rant but at this point VNY is all VFR for me, not even flight following. I get the hell out of there ASAP and the request whatever I need enroute.
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Welcome to IFR flying in the San Fernando Valley. And if VNY is the red-headed step-child, WHP is the mutant third cousin you keep locked in the basement. Getting an IFR departure from there is like spotting a unicorn. All you can do is learn the angles and don't feel bad about working them. Get into the air and into the system any way you can - where you will (hopefully) get some priority - at least over the suckers still on the ground. Like 'kgruber' said, take whatever approach, into any airport you can get, and then break it off once you're underneath. Special VFR is your friend. Fortunately the WX here is rarely that bad. Main issue is the 'May Gray/June Gloom' - typically a 2,000' deck starting around 1,000' AGL. The techniques above will get you in or out 90% of the time. Log your 'actual' time in 4 minute chunks!

But if you're one of those guys who likes to file every leg of every flight, you're gonna be in a world of hurt around here.

C.
 
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