Why does the FAA hate ADHD so much?

labbadabba

labbadabba

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There are millions of people with the diagnosis, many of whom have managed just fine without medication.

There are millions more who deal with it without a diagnosis. Yet whether you're on meds or not, or have EVER taken anything for it, the FAA thinks this is a really big deal.
 
labbadabba said:
There are millions of people with the diagnosis, many of whom have managed just fine without medication.

There are millions more who deal with it without a diagnosis. Yet whether you're on meds or not, or have EVER taken anything for it, the FAA thinks this is a really big deal.
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There are also millions of people with the diagnosis, but without the actual condition.
 
labbadabba said:
There are millions of people with the diagnosis, many of whom have managed just fine without medication.

There are millions more who deal with it without a diagnosis. Yet whether you're on meds or not, or have EVER taken anything for it, the FAA thinks this is a really big deal.
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Because of the first two words in ADHD "Attention Deficit" They don't want pilots flying the public around that have problems paying attention. The problem is that there are many different levels and versions of ADHD but no easy way to reliably differentiate between them and for some people the amount of deficit they have can vary from day to day or even hour to hour. The FAA likes to.take a broad brush approach because it's easier for them to just deny everyone with an ADHD diagnosis than it is to try and figure out which people it will or won't be a problem for. There is no shortage of people without ADHD that want to become pilots so there is no incentive for the FAA to go out of their way to allow people with it to get their medical. It doesnt mean that it's right or fair but that's the unfortunate world we are in today.
 
When I was a kid and displayed what is now called ADHD, my mother had a cure which involved a wooden spoon, a paddle from a broken paddle ball toy and she even used a length of my orange Hot Wheels track a couple of times.
 
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We all agree that if someone can't hold attention to a task, shouldn't be flying. I think a POV here is that there is a lot of Type 1 and Type 2 errors in the diagnosis. The probability that you have or not have it has little relation to if you were or were not diagnosed with it. Which feeds into what KMacht posted.
 
Timbeck2 said:
When I was a kid and displayed what is now called ADHD, she had a cure which involved a wooden spoon, a paddle from a broken paddle ball toy and she even used a length of my Hot Wheels track a couple of times.
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You reminded me of the comedian Kevin Jordan who said ... "for A.D.H.D. dad a B.E.L.T." :D

He also noted that instead of "timeout" we usually got "knockout" ...

Funny guy:

 
General question: Do you suppose that there is more ADHD today than there was 40 years ago? Is there something that is causing such a wave of people with ADHD that was not in society 40 years ago? In most of my classes growing up in the 60's and 70's there was usually 1 student that had trouble paying attention in class. Now it seems like there are 50% of the students in class that can't pay attention and are drugged into submission. Perhaps we've introduced something into society that is feeding ADHD? Are there statistics or proof that something has changed or was it always around and we just make a bigger deal about it today? Perhaps the pharmaceutical industry with the help of medical professionals are making huge profits producing and subscribing drugs to kids that really just need better discipline from parents? Inquiring minds want to know...
 
Doug Reid said:
My son is retiring from teaching for this very reason..there is no discipline at home or at school for the most part.
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My in laws are both retired elementary school teachers. One of my father in law’s stories comes to mind; he taught second grade. One day a kid came to school with a note which read, “Please keep little Johnny in from recess today. I couldn’t get him to do his homework.”

My father in law wrote back, “Who the hell do you think recess is for?”
 
Brad Smith said:
General question: Do you suppose that there is more ADHD today than there was 40 years ago? Is there something that is causing such a wave of people with ADHD that was not in society 40 years ago? In most of my classes growing up in the 60's and 70's there was usually 1 student that had trouble paying attention in class. Now it seems like there are 50% of the students in class that can't pay attention and are drugged into submission. Perhaps we've introduced something into society that is feeding ADHD? Are there statistics or proof that something has changed or was it always around and we just make a bigger deal about it today? Perhaps the pharmaceutical industry with the help of medical professionals are making huge profits producing and subscribing drugs to kids that really just need better discipline from parents? Inquiring minds want to know...
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I believe that much of the rise in ADHD (and, for that matter, autism spectrum disorder) diagnoses over the past few decades is simply due to physicians being more attentive to the conditions, and having diagnostic codes to use. ADHD wasn't a diagnosis under that name until the 1960's; autism spectrum disorder until even later. Sure, the symptoms were known for much longer, but they went by a variety of names, and it was hard to track numbers.

Is the actual incidence of ADHD and autism spectrum disorder rising? No idea. Maybe. I don't think there is a consensus among those who study such things.
 
schmookeeg said:
Is there any better SODA test for ADHD than, say, the passing of a checkride?
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The problem is that the level of deficit can vary day to day or even situation to situation. The person may be able to pass the check ride today but may be unfit to fly a few hours later.
 
I tend to think that some/many parents (not all) look at their children's problems and conclude "it can't be parenting, must be medical". Sometimes it isn't the parenting, certainly there are kids who exhibit behaviors that are abnormal and maybe call out for a medical approach. But I'd guess a huge portion of the kids diagnosed as ADHD could be cured with better parenting and stricter discipline in schools.

But years down the road, how's the FAA to know?
 
Brad Smith said:
General question: Do you suppose that there is more ADHD today than there was 40 years ago? Is there something that is causing such a wave of people with ADHD that was not in society 40 years ago?
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Video games, television, smart phones, social media. Boring school can't compete to that. Kids get addicted to the instant gratification of electronics.
 
lsaway said:
Video games, television, smart phones, social media. Boring school can't compete to that. Kids get addicted to the instant gratification of electronics.
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Also, as a previous poster said, what we now call ADHD used to be called "boys being boys". When I was in school, kids (mostly boys) were rambunctious. today that would be called ADHD and require mind altering drugs to control.
 
It's because real ADHD is hugely dangerous to fly with. Most "ADHD" people today aren't actually ADHD. They're just higher energy than whatever baseline is used, and have been exposed to things that shorten their attention span instead of lengthen it.

I had a mom come in after bringing her little boy to the doctor for a regular checkup, asking me if I thought her little boy was ADHD and if they should let the doctor medicate him. He had absolutely nothing wrong with him. He could focus easily on tasks and was quiet during story-times, etc., but he needed time in the day when he could run and play and get his little boy energy out. Kids aren't mini adults, and the expectation that kids will have the same level of self-control and the low energy levels of most adults today is destroying so many childhoods.
 
I have a bit of an issue with the whole "on the spectrum" part of the ADHD/Autism/Asperger diagnosis. I feel like a lot of kids exhibit some minor traits and the parents insist that they get officially diagnosed with it in order to get special treatment. Some of it may be legitimate, but I bet most are just behavioral issues that will resolve themselves over time or with different parenting/discipline. Unfortunately, once they get tagged with that diagnosis, it's tough to shake it later on.

Imagine if we thought someone was barely on the Alcoholism spectrum (is that like someone who only drinks when they smoke), or on the AIDS spectrum. Anyone on the schizophrenic spectrum?
 
JOhnH said:
Also, as a previous poster said, what we now call ADHD used to be called "boys being boys". When I was in school, kids (mostly boys) were rambunctious. today that would be called ADHD and require mind altering drugs to control.
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Don't forget about Child Protective Services. Kids today know exactly how to play the system. Try and discipline, and the kids starts threatening to call CPS. This is happening in school and home, especially when divorced parents don't work together.
 
I think it’s the same as animals… we need EXERCISE. Strenuous physical effort on a regular basis. All pets that don’t get exercise (especially when young) are problematic.

What’s changed? Kids are more sedentary than they used to be.

I believe we need strenuous mental effort as well. Serious problem solving. Consequences for failing, like you don’t get “the prize”, like using your bike if something minor is wrong… not pain, suffering or starvation… going a little hungry is ok. Don’t get to come in and eat until chores are complete.

These sorts of things are waning.

The FAA doesn’t hate it, they are afraid of not addressing the amorphous beast… IOW, just too risk (their perception) adverse
 
SoonerAviator said:
Imagine if we thought someone was barely on the Alcoholism spectrum (is that like someone who only drinks when they smoke), or on the AIDS spectrum. Anyone on the schizophrenic spectrum?
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Said in jest I’m sure, but I can tell you from observation and personal experience that there is indeed an alcoholism spectrum. Some are much worse than others in dealing with it. I think that’s true of a lot of things that can range from very mild to debilitating.
 
DaleB said:
Said in jest I’m sure, but I can tell you from observation and personal experience that there is indeed an alcoholism spectrum. Some are much worse than others in dealing with it. I think that’s true of a lot of things that can range from very mild to debilitating.
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To be clear, I was speaking in jest about how they refer to the disease/disorder as "being on the spectrum". There are always varying degrees of things like Alcoholism, but we don't refer to them as being on the spectrum.
 
kmacht said:
there are many different levels and versions of ADHD but no easy way to reliably differentiate between them and for some people the amount of deficit they have can vary from day to day or even hour to hour.
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Sounds like something that can be addressed by assessing performance and achievement during, say, a long written examination, 60+ hours of flight training and hours of ground instruction over several months, followed by a strenuous oral examination and flight test given by an unfamiliar authority figure.
 
Timbeck2 said:
When I was a kid and displayed what is now called ADHD, my mother had a cure which involved a wooden spoon, a paddle from a broken paddle ball toy and she even used a length of my orange Hot Wheels track a couple of times.
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Last year I was listening to some aviation podcast that was interviewing an air traffic controller. He told a story about when he was an airplane-obsessed young boy, staring out a window and not paying attention in school. The teacher admonished him by saying, "Nobody is going to pay you good money to look out a window at airplanes all day!"

Years later he sent the teacher a photo of himself working in a control tower, looking out the window.

:D
 
Timbeck2 said:
When I was a kid and displayed what is now called ADHD, my mother had a cure which involved a wooden spoon, a paddle from a broken paddle ball toy and she even used a length of my orange Hot Wheels track a couple of times.
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That wasn't a cure, it was at best a temporary treatment. I usually managed to get myself in trouble again in short order.
 
Once a doctor alters your chart with a diagnosis, you are saddled with it forever..
 
Brad Smith said:
General question: Do you suppose that there is more ADHD today than there was 40 years ago? Is there something that is causing such a wave of people with ADHD that was not in society 40 years ago? In most of my classes growing up in the 60's and 70's there was usually 1 student that had trouble paying attention in class. Now it seems like there are 50% of the students in class that can't pay attention and are drugged into submission. Perhaps we've introduced something into society that is feeding ADHD? Are there statistics or proof that something has changed or was it always around and we just make a bigger deal about it today? Perhaps the pharmaceutical industry with the help of medical professionals are making huge profits producing and subscribing drugs to kids that really just need better discipline from parents? Inquiring minds want to know...
Click to expand...

Seems to me that kids today are being electronically entertained all their waking hours. Thus, they do not develop the ability to exercise control over their mind.
 
I’ve flown with several folks with it, just not clinically diagnosed. They drive me crazy, constantly screwing with the FMS, or turning knobs. I just want to grab them and be like stopppp, just enjoy the views lol…

Seriously though, the FAA is so far behind on medicals it’s not even funny. I’d much rather fly with someone on antidepressants or be flown by someone on them, as to fly with probably 20% of pilots that should be on them but aren’t because it’s a expensive, intensive process to get through. The FAA is a joke, in so many ways, but hey… That’s the government for ya.
 
A lot of broad strokes in this thread...

As a parent of a child likely with ADHD and in a six month wait to see a specialist to hopefully get some help I can assure you it is not just because he is on electronics all the time or that he is not disciplined. Hell the more I look back I likely have it to some extent, maybe getting help for potential ADHD and anxiety earlier would have helped me but here we are.

That all being said the FAA is completely behind the ball when it comes to mental health and I have no hope for it improving. Does it have an affect on one's ability to fly a plane? Maybe? Does undiagnosed and untreated alcoholism, depression, anxiety etc.? Absolutely.
 
ADHD and all of the other so-called interrelated "spectrum" disorders like autism, OCD, and yes, even alcoholism, are simply one end of the normal bell curve distribution of human behavior. Nowadays doctors draw a line at one point and say, "beyond this point is xxx disorder," but it's nowhere near that simple. It's not even a line but more of a multidimensional surface that defies any simple boundaries, but computer records and insurance companies require a 0 or 1 (no or yes) answer.

Yes, some people need chemical assistance to live their lives, but other simply need to learn to understand and live with their personality, like taking the time to look at something shiny off in left field when the situation allows it instead of an OCD-like focus on the task at hand. Indeed, those tendencies can be an advantage in some situations... being easily distracted might just save the hunter in a forest full of dangerous beasts, or a daydreaming engineer who suddenly thinks of a new solution in a different direction.
 
Medical science and awareness has outpaced the FAA. We, as a society, are now a lot more aware of the various mental health concerns that people have always suffered but that have previously written off or ignored, the vast spectrum that these issues impact one’s daily life and ability, and the varying levels of intervention that can help alleviate these issues all along the spectrum. Unfortunately it seems the FAA is incredibly slow to evolve and continues to hold an antiquated view on many of these issues and seeing the world as a binary. Any evidence of a pilot existing anywhere on this spectrum is cast almost instantly as evidence of inability to fly safely.
 
Cykoguy said:
A lot of broad strokes in this thread...

As a parent of a child likely with ADHD and in a six month wait to see a specialist to hopefully get some help I can assure you it is not just because he is on electronics all the time or that he is not disciplined. Hell the more I look back I likely have it to some extent, maybe getting help for potential ADHD and anxiety earlier would have helped me but here we are.

That all being said the FAA is completely behind the ball when it comes to mental health and I have no hope for it improving. Does it have an affect on one's ability to fly a plane? Maybe? Does undiagnosed and untreated alcoholism, depression, anxiety etc.? Absolutely.
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This is not a one size fits all sort of thing. Some kids fit your description. Other kids most certainly are seriously and negatively effected by excessive use of video games, social media and lack of discipline.
 
It would be terrific if one or two of our esteemed AME's would check in on this with some fact.
 
My doc tells a story of a patient, an airline captain, who suffers with depression but refuses treatment due to the FAA’s dinosaur regs. She says she wouldn’t fly on an airplane with him at the seat but if he’d take Zoloft or one of the equivalents she’d feel differently. The FAA isn’t concerned with health or safety as much as compliance with old men’s regs.

My cardiologist’s son wants to be a private pilot but his path is blocked. Like millions of other kids he was prescribed meds in grade school for ADHD. He’s a perfectly normal, bright kid. More stupid regs at work. And the FAA wonders why we have a pilot shortage.
 
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