Why do you rent instead of own?

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psachseJr

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Paul
Hello,

I am an aspiring pilot and, as usual for me, I like to know what I am getting into. I have looked at plane rental rates and also prices for planes, and it seems to me that for an active pilot that flies often, ownership may be less expensive. So, please don't take my question as an arrogant one, just and inquisitive one; as I certainly understand that one may have other priorities.

So, my question is: Why do so many of you rent instead of own? Is it because an "affordable" plane is 20-30 years old?

Trying to learn,

Paul
 
Most people rent because owning is a big commitment in time and money. rental is usually restrictive. that is why i bought my first glider. i wanted to be able to fly where i wanted when i wanted which wasn't possible with club ships. for power flying i'm in a club that has reasonable prices and agreeable policies on cross country trips that allow me to fly to see my parents or in laws without over the top daily minimum fees.
 
psachseJr said:
Hello,

I am an aspiring pilot and, as usual for me, I like to know what I am getting into. I have looked at plane rental rates and also prices for planes, and it seems to me that for an active pilot that flies often, ownership may be less expensive. So, please don't take my question as an arrogant one, just and inquisitive one; as I certainly understand that one may have other priorities.

So, my question is: Why do so many of you rent instead of own? Is it because an "affordable" plane is 20-30 years old?

Trying to learn,

Paul
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You nailed it here, "it seems to me that for an active pilot that flies often, ownership may be less expensive."

Add to that:

A) Some people want their stuff to be just THEIR stuff. Not being able to paste their beloved Fluffy's picture to the panel is simply unacceptable.

b) Convenience of having it available whenever you want it.

C) No paranoia over what "the last guy" may have damaged.
 
You have to fly a lot to come close to justifying ownership. And as Anthony correctly pointed out, you pay whether or not you fly. I am also in the insane camp. That said, my airplane is far nicer than most rentals.
 
First, stop trying to rationalize aviation expenditures. If you try, you'll quit.

:D

Second, doesn't every pilot eventually want to own his/her own airplane???

Third, there's a certain confidence that accompanies intimate familiarity with every bolt, cable, strut, and gauge that simply can't be experienced as a renter.
 
steingar said:
You have to fly a lot to come close to justifying ownership. And as Anthony correctly pointed out, you pay whether or not you fly. I am also in the insane camp. That said, my airplane is far nicer than most rentals.
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One has to consider the equity involved. Airplanes hold value better than cars so if you sell it before it is junk you can get a good chunk back. But, as others point out, cost justification is a pointless exercise.

It is always nicer to own. "Nicer" costs money. :D
 
psachseJr said:
So, my question is: Why do so many of you rent instead of own?
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Because owning is farking expensive!!! :eek::hairraise::cryin:

Next question. :D

Seriously, I think the breakeven point between renting vs. owning is somewhere around the 100-150 hours per year mark. I'm sure someone else can chime in about the exact numbers...
 
The biggest difficulty with ownership for me is how hangars or tiedowns are hard to find near San Francisco. When people suggest Half Moon Bay, Reid-Hillview, or Hayward, I laugh so hard. Well, Tracy may be realistic, and if I really-really-really wanted to keep an airplane, I could do that, or something along 101. The point, however, is that I don't even live near San Francisco. I just might some time in the future. And that is the uncertainty that conflicts with the commitment. Money are not as much of a problem as the way airplane limits your choices of place to work. If you never plan to move, you can start exploring options, establish useful contacts, and that makes it much easier.
 
rpadula said:
Seriously, I think the breakeven point between renting vs. owning is somewhere around the 100-150 hours per year mark. I'm sure someone else can chime in about the exact numbers...
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It depends on the airplane. The other thing to consider is that if you get to the realm of wanting something with more serious features (turbocharged, de-ice, pressurization, etc.) you may not be able to rent it at all. If that's the case, ownership is your only option.

For a lot of people, I would agree that renting makes more sense financially. But owning is more rewarding.
 
Keepin mind the purchase price of a plane is like an iceberg, most of the cost can't be seen. In otherwords The upkeep and maintence costs can far exceed the purchase price.
 
AdamZ said:
Keepin mind the purchase price of a plane is like an iceberg, most of the cost can't be seen. In otherwords The upkeep and maintence costs can far exceed the purchase price.
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not if you don't add them up!
 
AdamZ said:
Keepin mind the purchase price of a plane is like an iceberg, most of the cost can't be seen.
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Yep. Think of the Owner Registration like a boarding pass...


titanic-boarding-pass.jpg
 
AdamZ said:
Keepin mind the purchase price of a plane is like an iceberg, most of the cost can't be seen. In otherwords The upkeep and maintence costs can far exceed the purchase price.
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Very true!! After 11 years of ownership, the original purchase price is a small portion of the total to date.

tonycondon said:
not if you don't add them up!
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Yeah... keep telling myself not to do that...

Gary
 
Thank you all. I may be looking at it wrong, but if I assume that I buy a used plane that is pre-depreciated, and will therefore hold it's value, I don't count that as a "cost". So, what is left is fuel, maintenance, insurance and hangar/tiedown. If I understand it, the fuel is a wash (have to buy it either way), so the cost of ownership is really hangar/tiedown, insurance and maintenance. So, if I assume $200.00 for insurance, $300.00 for hangar/tiedown and $200.00 for maintenance (accumulating at $2400.00/year), I get $700.00/month of cost, equivalent to about 7 dry hours of rental, per month.

Aside from the intangibles of pride of ownership and all that stuff, am I in the ballpark?

BTW - I live within 1 mile of a very nice airport in Lantana, FL. I understand that I can't "make sense" of the spending on flying, but I can understand it. Thanks again.
 
psachseJr said:
Thank you all. I may be looking at it wrong, but if I assume that I buy a used plane that is pre-depreciated, and will therefore hold it's value, I don't count that as a "cost". So, what is left is fuel, maintenance, insurance and hangar/tiedown. If I understand it, the fuel is a wash (have to buy it either way), so the cost of ownership is really hangar/tiedown, insurance and maintenance. So, if I assume $200.00 for insurance, $300.00 for hangar/tiedown and $200.00 for maintenance (accumulating at $2400.00/year), I get $700.00/month of cost, equivalent to about 7 dry hours of rental, per month.
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That seems awful low. Liability alone on my LSA-eligible Chief is just under $500/year. Hull is a/c value dependent, but assume 10% of wholesale value.
 
JohnGalt said:
The oft used justification is 100 hrs per year. If you fly more than that it makes sense to own. Maybe not always true, but it's a common benchmark.
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Owning gets me more hours because I have to go out and fly it more often because of maintenance recommendations to fly at least hour per week or per month.

JohnGalt said:
Rental fleets are getting more variety but most are still in the category of trainers. It's a bit harder to find true x-country machines that can take people, luggage and fuel at a good speed. Around here I've seen C182's, SR-22's, PA-28R-200 and even a Mooney but they're pricey, require a lot of check-out time and there's not many of them.

Besides the previously stated reasons, if you want to fly a machine with more capability, you have to step up to ownership. To which a good option may be joining a club or fractional.
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In remote areas like mine, there is little selection if any rentals available. I want to make use of the local airport rather than drive 70 miles in order to fly.
 
psachseJr said:
So, if I assume $200.00 for insurance, $300.00 for hangar/tiedown and $200.00 for maintenance (accumulating at $2400.00/year), I get $700.00/month of cost, equivalent to about 7 dry hours of rental, per month.

Aside from the intangibles of pride of ownership and all that stuff, am I in the ballpark?
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For a Cherokee 140, that is "in the ballpark". However, there is absoutely NO guarantee they will end up that way. Insurance will depend on what you buy and your experience level, tie-down/hangers are dependant on where you live and what you want, maintenance is the big variable, could be quite reasonable, could blow a connecting rod out on your first flight.

Gary
 
psachseJr said:
I may be looking at it wrong, but if I assume that I buy a used plane that is pre-depreciated, and will therefore hold it's value, I don't count that as a "cost".
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I thought that was called "opportunity cost" in the financial world. You're tying up some money which could be used for something else. That might not matter to you, though. Also, there are many people who bought airplanes who mistakenly thought they wouldn't depreciate but they did, especially in the past few years. I'm sure now is a better time to buy than 5 years ago. Then there's the question of what happens on the back end of ownership when you decide you can't justify an airplane any more. I know a number of people who are trying to sell either a whole airplane or a share and are finding it difficult. Just some things to consider. I think airplane ownership can be rewarding but I wouldn't know personally about that since I have always flown other people's airplanes.
 
Why don't I own? My wife likes the cost structure of the club I belong to much better. And then she complains about that, too. Until it's time to fly across the state rather than drive. Then she enjoys the view, keeps her finger on the sectional where she things we are (usually right on) and nods off for a nap (which she denies, but I've seen it).
 
I'll argue the 100 hours/year number. I flew 80 hours last year and after totalling up all the dollars (fixed & otherwise) my hourly rate was substantially under the rental rate for a comparable aircraft. Of course I have the advantage of 100LL under $4/gal.
 
murphey said:
I'll argue the 100 hours/year number. I flew 80 hours last year and after totalling up all the dollars (fixed & otherwise) my hourly rate was substantially under the rental rate for a comparable aircraft. Of course I have the advantage of 100LL under $4/gal.
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It depends on the airplane. The 100 hours/year is probably a rough estimate that averages across a lot of aircraft, and varies with the specifics of the situation.

One friend of mine probably spends $1000/hour on his 182 simply because he flies it so little.
 
Mostly because I can't yet afford the potential large maintenance costs that can come out of nowhere while owning. Although I may spend a lot renting sometimes - it's a predictable cost that I know I can afford.

That said, renting is never going to be as nice as owning, you always need to get someone's permission and the airplane itself is never how you'd like it to be setup. I really look forward to the day that I have a hangar with my own airplane inside.
 
dmccormack said:
That seems awful low. Liability alone on my LSA-eligible Chief is just under $500/year. Hull is a/c value dependent, but assume 10% of wholesale value.
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I think he means 200 a month for insurance (which I find to be quite high)
 
After getting my PP certificate, I purchased 25% of a C172 and it has worked out great. A lot of people will tell you not to keep track of your aviation expenses, but I don't believe in that philosophy. I keep detailed records of all my aviation expenses and use those numbers to make financial decisions related to flying. For the ¼ share of my airplane, the break-even point compared to renting is 50 hours a year. I fly 150 hours a year, so owning makes a lot sense for my situation. Even if I was only flying 30-40 hours a year, owning has a lot of conveniences (try taking an international flight in a rental).

On the other hand, there are some advantages to renting. You don’t have to worry about variable maintenance costs. Others have talked about this and it is important you understand how variable this can be before you buy an airplane. For a simple airplane like the C172, you can spend $1,000 for maintenance one year and spend $15,000 the next year.
 
Yes, all those costs I estimated were monthly.

I have had boats all my life, so I understand that anything can happen and that there are no guarantees. But that's really true about houses, boats, and to a much lesser extent, cars.

The thing that attracts me to ownership is that under normal circumstances, the act of flying is not a major decision/expense. The other consideration is I am very motivated by the planning and execution of long trips (my 25 foot boat has been on 190nm trips, each way, to the Bahamas. I suspect if i rent. those trips probably wont happen due to cost. Of course, i could be wrong which is why I am asking.
 
I think the biggest disadvantage to owning is you tend to fly fewer types. Moreover, if like me your aircraft is VFR, you can't do the IR until you upgrade. Even if you aircraft is IFR capable, you are flying behind the avionics in it, not the new ones you covet, unless you spend a pile of cash.
 
steingar said:
I think the biggest disadvantage to owning is you tend to fly fewer types. Moreover, if like me your aircraft is VFR, you can't do the IR until you upgrade. Even if you aircraft is IFR capable, you are flying behind the avionics in it, not the new ones you covet, unless you spend a pile of cash.
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I find as an owner I tend to hang out at the airport, make friends, and get to fly more airplanes.

The CFI thing helps, too.
 
I have done both, and I have found that I fly much more as an owner than renter.
 
dmccormack said:
I find as an owner I tend to hang out at the airport, make friends, and get to fly more airplanes.

The CFI thing helps, too.
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This was my biggest thing having the Cherokee in OKC. Everyone sees you different if you own, and they're more friendly. So far I have time in about 5 people's planes that I wouldn't have even know about if I just rented.
 
Maxmosbey said:
When you talk about maintenance, I think that you are really underestimating your costs. I don't think you are going to get an annual for less than three or four hundred. Then when you get the annual, there are always issues that pop up. ADs come along that can cost a fortune, especially if you have to change out some cylinders. Speaking of cylinders, $200 isn't even going to come close to covering the cost of pulling a cylinder and putting in new valve seats of piston rings if one of them comes up low on compression. Depending on the plane you buy, there might be limitations on the life of some components. I will not keep going, because you get the picture. To me, ownership is a gamble. You are gambling every year that nothing comes up until next year. You are not going to get a hanger for $300 a year. Leave it tied out all year and you are going to end up with corrosion issues and perhaps water in the gas tanks. If you go with a fabric plane, the sun will eat the fabric up in a no time. One thing leads to another. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I think that your figures are unrealistic. At the same time, renting has issues as well. I don't think that renting is for everyone either. It just depends. I'm just saying that your figures are setting you up for a big shock.
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$200 per month is what he figured which could easily be realistic.
 
jesse said:
Mostly because I can't yet afford the potential large maintenance costs that can come out of nowhere while owning. Although I may spend a lot renting sometimes - it's a predictable cost that I know I can afford.

That said, renting is never going to be as nice as owning, you always need to get someone's permission and the airplane itself is never how you'd like it to be setup. I really look forward to the day that I have a hangar with my own airplane inside.
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My feelings exactly. Watching an owner I know find that he needed a major overhaul ($40K) at 900 hours on his less than ten-year old mooney was an education. He eventually got Lycoming to prorate the costs a bit because he had immaculate records and operating data from his engine monitor. There was clearly a metallurgical problem. But he still was out a significant chunk of change.

I know of no other 100,000.00 item, including a house, that can "Bite" you with a major bill (defined as 10K or more) with no warning, and no way to lay off that risk. You can insure against your pilot errors but you can't insure against mechanical problems and the fixes for those can be gawdawful expensive. Well, I take that back.. Boats and exotic cars are in the same category. Houses tend to give you warning if you pay attention.

So... if you've got enough spare money for TWO airplanes, then you can probably afford to operate ONE airplane happily.
 
TMetzinger said:
My feelings exactly. Watching an owner I know find that he needed a major overhaul ($40K) at 900 hours on his less than ten-year old mooney was an education. He eventually got Lycoming to prorate the costs a bit because he had immaculate records and operating data from his engine monitor. There was clearly a metallurgical problem. But he still was out a significant chunk of change.

I know of no other 100,000.00 item, including a house, that can "Bite" you with a major bill (defined as 10K or more) with no warning, and no way to lay off that risk. You can insure against your pilot errors but you can't insure against mechanical problems and the fixes for those can be gawdawful expensive. Well, I take that back.. Boats and exotic cars are in the same category. Houses tend to give you warning if you pay attention.

So... if you've got enough spare money for TWO airplanes, then you can probably afford to operate ONE airplane happily.
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Thank you. Yes, a boat is right there... a $10K repair can happen at any second... an outboard motor runs $15K-$25K a pop when they need to be replaced, my boat has 2. I think the boating has "hardened" me a bit to the expenses of repair.
 
Thanks you all for all the feedback. You have helped me see all the facets.
 
Only buy em run out or pimped out...that way you know what you are buying.
 
Upside to renting? Never worry about mx.

Downside? 3hr minimum rental chg per day makes a weekend getaway prohibitive.

If you just want to doodle around and eat the $100 hamburger, renting makes a lot of sense.
 
I rent instead of owning because in the last ten years renting has allowed me to rent over 30 different types of planes where owning would have restricted me to one type.

I've also been a boat owner even though it made more financial sense to rent, so I do understand the love and pride with being able to say that you're an owner.

I will continue to rent until I win the lottery then I will buy a Commander 115 and a Cessna Caravan on floats.

Some years I fly over 200 hours and other years I fly less than 50 so for now I can't justify ownership.
 
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