Why do pilots push fuel endurance....

The Luscombe's fuel gage is almost impossible to read, as it's situated almost behind my head! I'd need a mirror to see it in flight. I measure fuel with a calibrated stick before departure, every time, and fly by the clock. With full fuel (14 gal) I plan on 2.5 hours, then I'm looking to refuel. It's capable, but not a true cross country machine without strict discipline re: fuel management.
 
I used to tow gliders with a 150/150.

One of my fears was that I'd end up as a glider, too. Stick the tanks, takeoff, land, takeoff, land, ... repeat 6-7 times..., stick the tanks, refuel, repeat.
 
This afternoon a friend shared a story about a demo flight he went on with head honcho of an importer of an aircraft he's looking to buy...new. When he arrived to check it out the guy was in a hurry and told him to jump in quick because he had limited time and wanted to get him up in it. Within ten minutes they ran out of fuel and had to deadstick it into a large business that had a huge storage yard. The business was closed and secured behind high fences and gates! Took several hours to get someone to come open it up and get them out.

Hard to believe someone would be so cavalier on a demo flight. But he did buy it, especially after seeing its engine out short field performance!!
 
Zeldman said:
I used to fly a 182 that held something like 92 gallons. Super long range tanks.
Click to expand...

My 182 has the 92 gallon tanks; and I'm about to add the Flint tanks for an extra 24 gallons!
 
I like to keep the legs 2 hours or less. I don’t even like doing JFK-DFW in the work jet. I prefer the shorter legs. There’s no way I’d survive 4 hours in a 172 or even a Cirrus.
 
I've heard stories of folks running a tank dry intentionally, switch tanks and fly on. Never done it myself, and never would. I fear the engine not running. I'm not the best, most experience pilot but I sure can manage fuel.

My burn is 6.5 to 9gph, I always plan for 10gph.

Not fuel related but poor decision by this pilot. We had a local guy flying a piper twin with two friends on board shut one engine down to demonstrate an in flight start. Battery was not fully charged and the engine would not start. He stalled it trying to do and emergency landing on a beach. He and one of his friends perished in the crash. He was 20 miles or less from a 5000ft runway. Sad story.

edit: My POH says "For maximum reliability in fuel management and trim control, use of tanks should be alternated and a fuel log maintained showing time on each tank"
 
Last edited:
I almost forgot:

I did get to witness two fuel related emergencies.

1) I was on the ground when someone doing aerobatics lost a fuel cap, right in front the windscreen. He called tower and said he was landing because fuel was coming into the cockpit. The airport FD met him. He was more angry about it than anything.

2) Another time I was finishing up with a preflight or refueling or something, and I was watching an ultralight of some sort taxi out and take off. He made a very low left turning circle, maybe <50' AGL, landed, taxied back to the ramp, shut down, climbed out, and needed two hands to light his cigarette because he was shaking so hard. He was planning to ferry the U/L somewhere, and had a 5-gal gas can strapped into the right seat (two seats, side-by-side, center stick). At rotation, the gas can slipped down into the footwell and jammed the stick to the left, that's why he could only make a left turn. After 2 or three more cigarettes, he re-secured the tank and took off again.
 
I've been flying mostly a 172s for quite a while now. . .I did push one to the point of "wondering how I was doing" - coming home at night, wind against me more than forecast, etc., the usual. Turned out I landed with just about the legal reserves, which was OK with me. The 172 I fly most often now has a Fuel Flowmeter tat "talks" to the GPS, and my experience has been it can be accurate to a gallon or two, so I'm more comfortable flying longer legs.

Speaking of (Cessna POH charts) - I found them to be spot-on; acting as a radio relay aircraft some years back, myself and another pilot and I planned it for max endurance, at 9,500; as we got closer to the limit, we "cheated" back over the airport. When we landed we dipped the tanks, and the fuel remaining was dead-on with the POH. Was good to know.
 
At the Navion flyin, there's a "proficiency" event. You are given a measured course to fly. You have to predict the time and the fuel burn to fly it. We top you off, you go fly it, and then we top you off again. You get a point for every second you are off and every tenth of a gallon (low score wins). I've seen scores in the single digits. I won it one year because the best guy screwed up badly. I had a score of 30 or so which normally wouldn't have won.
 
mscard88 said:
This guy ( a CFI!) flew for 3 1/2 hours in a C152 and ran out of fuel. He's fortunate he landed and is alive. A 152 burns around 5-6 GPH and has 24.5 gallons usable.
Click to expand...
Wait a moment... 3.5 * 6 = 21.0. So he was completely fine to fly, and even had a reserve of more than 30 minutes. Of course he did run out of gas, but the numbers don't seem to present a cause for an outrage.
 
zaitcev said:
Wait a moment... 3.5 * 6 = 21.0. So he was completely fine to fly, and even had a reserve of more than 30 minutes. Of course he did run out of gas, but the numbers don't seem to present a cause for an outrage.
Click to expand...

Not so much outrage, but stupidity especially as a CFI. Flying past 3 hours is unwise in a 152. You're entitled to your opinion.
 
My RV has about 4 hours endurance on full tanks.
My bladder is usually good for 3 hours.

I typically plan 400NM legs for safety and comfort :)
 
mscard88 said:
Not so much outrage, but stupidity especially as a CFI. Flying past 3 hours is unwise in a 152. You're entitled to your opinion.
Click to expand...
My opinion does not come into this, only arithmetic. I merely commented on the numbers that you presented in the original post, not on their truthfulness or relevancy to the performance of a real world 152.
 
zaitcev said:
Wait a moment... 3.5 * 6 = 21.0. So he was completely fine to fly, and even had a reserve of more than 30 minutes. Of course he did run out of gas, but the numbers don't seem to present a cause for an outrage.
Click to expand...
Again, 6 GPH presumes that you're throttled back and leaned. You can burn in the double digits full rich and WOT at low altitudes. Most plan for 9 hours for the first hour to cover the takeoff/climb. 9 + 2.5 * 6 = 24. Just enough to run it dry.
 
mondtster said:
Before someone points it out, I am well aware that 30 minutes reserve does not meet IFR minimums.
Click to expand...
Point of order, Mr. Chairman!:D

45 minutes is only required in IFR CONDITIONS. It has nothing to do with the type of flight plan you're on.
§91.167 Fuel requirements for flight in IFR conditions.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless it carries enough fuel (considering weather reports and forecasts and weather conditions) to—

(1) Complete the flight to the first airport of intended landing;

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, fly from that airport to the alternate airport; and

(3) Fly after that for 45 minutes at normal cruising speed or, for helicopters, fly after that for 30 minutes at normal cruising speed.
Click to expand...
On an IFR flight plan while in VFR conditions, 30 minutes is adequate. (No, I don't recommend it...nor do I recommend only 45 minutes reserve.)
§91.151 Fuel requirements for flight in VFR conditions.
(a) No person may begin a flight in an airplane under VFR conditions unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed—

(1) During the day, to fly after that for at least 30 minutes; or
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top