Why do people argue glass vs steam?

CFI: Students must do all their primary training on steam gauges.
Idiot: Why?
CFI: Because flying on steam gauges is more difficult and therefore the student ends up with a better understanding of flight.
Idiot: I see what you mean. I guess that's why all primary training is still done in tailwheel aircraft.
CFI: You're an idiot.
Idiot: <ironic blank stare>
 
Stewartb said:
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The only non-glass instrument in my Cub is a skid ball. The glass version and old school version are in agreement 100% of the time. The only reason I have the old school one is in case my screen fails. All I need to get down is a skid ball.
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Can’t you feel when you’re not coordinated!
 
Not all the time, no. Swirling winds knock the ball all over the place. In an airplane that lands at 20mph staying coordinated is kind of a big deal.
 
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Clip4 said:
If I am teaching someone to fly, I like steam gauges. The electronic version of the inclinometer is inferior. Besides, what does on say? Step on the pexels?
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Pet peeve is the Avidyne version of slip/skid. It’s a stupid “doghouse” arrangement that’s not at all intuitive.

This is another case where the glass version could just easily and efficiently mimic the steam version. As it does on my little Dynon, seen here:

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SixPapaCharlie said:
Most pilots are old.
Old people hate young people, change and newfangled stuff.

Some pilots are young though and they are ego driven hotshots that have to know better than other pilots.
They need other pilots to be wrong and pretend they fly using only a mortar and pestal to illustrate that they are somehow superior.

Pilots can be kinda dicky.
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That’s just Texas for you. ;)
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I really don't think it matters. Lots of pilots have flown steam for years and then gone to glass and somehow worked it out. There is no reason doing it the other way around should be any different.
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It is different, though. Glass is easier because it presents a picture, not just numbers. The synthetic vision technology makes it even easier. That's not to say that steam is better (other than the fact that glass, being far more complex and reliant on electrical supply, is a bit more likely to fail at an inopportune moment); glass makes everything more precise and mistakes in flight are less likely.

The steam/glass argument is much the same as the taildragger/trike argument. It is far easier to learn to fly taildraggers first rather than after learning on a trike.

I was a flight instructor for a while, with experience in taildraggers, trikes, and steam; some glass, though not a lot. I did find that the students that wanted to rely heavily on the graphic stuff, including GPS in the steamers, did not have a real good handle on navigation using just the basic panel.
 
Glass displays aren’t just cobbled together in random fashion. Industrial phychologists have studied how to best provide the information, and while in the first hour or two it may look unusual? You adapt to it very quickly and can process the information very effectively after just a few hours. It quickly becomes second nature and when getting back into a plane with steam gauges you recognize that you’re searching for info when you don’t have to with glass. Its just there. Even things like changing screens to control the comm or set the altimeter are intuitive in no time. I like it. If I had $30K burning a hole in my pocket I’d put a G500 system in the Cessna, but that’s not on my priority list at the moment.
 
Stewartb said:
Glass displays aren’t just cobbled together in random fashion. Industrial phychologists have studied how to best provide the information, and while in the first hour or two it may look unusual? You adapt to it very quickly and can process the information very effectively after just a few hours. It quickly becomes second nature and when getting back into a plane with steam gauges you recognize that you’re searching for info when you don’t have to with glass. Its just there. Even things like changing screens to control the comm or set the altimeter are intuitive in no time. I like it. If I had $30K burning a hole in my pocket I’d put a G500 system in the Cessna, but that’s not on my priority list at the moment.
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Also digital ribbon displays are not nearly as rate intuitive as pointers for new pilots. Industrial psychologists did not design the display formats for VFR student and recreational pilots. The display layout were designed to be used in the defense and airline industry by high experiance pilots flying in instrument conditions in high speed aircraft.
 
teejayevans said:
Old people like steam gauges, younger prefer glass.
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I'm 61. Give me glass ... but let me use a "dial" format for certain parameters, which, to me, is better for trend recognition. (I've configured my car to have a fake dial tachometer; I don't like the ribbon.)
 
Disagree. My airspeed and altitude have trend pointers that are more sensitive to increase-despcrease than my eye is on a steam gauge. Not arguing for or against, but the students will learn with the info format they’re provided.
 
Clip4 said:
Also digital ribbon displays are not nearly as rate intuitive as pointers for new pilots.
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I dunno. My older D180 has digital tape for altitude, airspeed, and heading... with little rate bars that are very intuitive. I learned to fly on old round dials like most people. Transitioning to glass took a couple of hours to be comfortable with it, and a few more to become really proficient. It's not THAT big of a switch. It took longer than moving from yoke to stick (almost effortless), but not a whole lot.
 
jordane93 said:
Learn both. You’ll most likely see both in a professional career.
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I agree 110%. In my opinion, anyone aspiring to make a career in aviation is doing themselves a disservice if they think they’ll only fly with one or the other and only learn one.

If someone is flying purely for recreation, I’d recommend flying whatever you want but it would probably be best to fly whatever you intend to fly after the training period is over.
 
steviedeviant said:
My two cents...from a “newer” pilot in 2015.

I didn’t know anything about being a pilot in 2015 when I got the chance to fly in a demo flight. I immediately loved it and worked to get my license at 38 tears old. I was totally horrified at the fact that nothing was digital, everthing seemed so outdated and wtf was this e6b “computer” that looked like something from the dark ages. I thought it was absolutely crazy to have to learn to fly by a paper map and flight plan doing it manually, learning about earths magnetic field impacts on my planning and something about west is best and east is least. All of this because i needed to know how in case the end if the world happened and all the gps sats went out and i needed to land (which in the case of an apocalypse i wouldn’t).

So i am sure that some of you like the old school steam gagues and that is fine, but for me, i want the entire digital system, if it goes out, i have two ipads with me that will work just fine. As for the e6b, should be thrown in the garbage along with every paper map there is. I should never have to plan a trip the “old” way, and could care less about earths magnetic field impact on my planning. I like the new ways..i get information faster, it is safer, and less chance for error

Again, my dumb two cents...i fault no one on the old systems. That was my experience from someone who learned on the old system and got away from it as soon as i could.

S D
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Hate to say it, but there are many places in the US where GPS isn't reliable but the silly compass on the glareshield, and a watch, works but only if you understand mag field and such. Ignoring the apocalypse, a serious EMP hit will trash most of our glass panels and iPads. And, of course, all the GPS "testing" in the west aint doing any of us much good. The key is backup, always backup.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
CFI: Students must do all their primary training on steam gauges.
Idiot: Why?
CFI: Because flying on steam gauges is more difficult and therefore the student ends up with a better understanding of flight.
Idiot: I see what you mean. I guess that's why all primary training is still done in tailwheel aircraft.
CFI: You're an idiot.
Idiot: <ironic blank stare>
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Some primary still is.
 
Why do we have the steam vs. glass argument? Because we're pilots! We can argue about anything.

For some, I think it's a bit of macho attitude. Honestly, if you can fly one, you can learn to fly the other. It's not that big a deal. I go back and forth all the time. The amount of steam will continue to steadily decline, but since airplanes last a long time there will likely be steam around for a long time, most of which won't fly much IFR making the argument somewhat moot.
 
mondtster said:
I agree 110%. In my opinion, anyone aspiring to make a career in aviation is doing themselves a disservice if they think they’ll only fly with one or the other and only learn one.

If someone is flying purely for recreation, I’d recommend flying whatever you want but it would probably be best to fly whatever you intend to fly after the training period is over.
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When my dad was transitioning from the DC-9 to 747 he had to a few extra sims because he’d never flew anything with an FMS or glass. Conversely when he was a sim check airman on the DC-9, a lot of the new hires struggled with raw data approaches because they’ve been flying glass RJs for several years. So I don’t buy, “only learn on glass because everything is automated these days.” I also don’t buy, “only learn on steam gauges.”
 
This will always be my favorite setup (or anything similar).

Both the situational awareness of glass, and the steam redundancy. I wouldn't want all glass, or all steam. Ever... again.
 

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teejayevans said:
Old people like steam gauges, younger prefer glass.
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In 30 years the old guys will be gone. The young guys will then be the old guys, and they will want to fly the airplane sometimes. They will lament the passing of the airplane that needs a pilot. The young guys at that time will let their self-flying airplanes do it all for them while they stare at their phones.
 
Dan Thomas said:
In 30 years the old guys will be gone. The young guys will then be the old guys, and they will want to fly the airplane sometimes. They will lament the passing of the airplane that needs a pilot. The young guys at that time will let their self-flying airplanes do it all for them while they stare at their phones.
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It’s funny, my brother does ATC was commenting on the young ATC guys the other day. Said they rely on the software in order to issue a vector but once it’s gets busy, they don’t have time to use that feature and must rely on good ole fashion ATC. Said their vectors go to crap when they have to do it themselves. :D Also said they spend most of their time staring at their phones vs studying the job.

While we have a new crop of tech savvy aviation professionals, because of outside distractions, I wonder if they’ve learned the basics of how to perform on their job.
 
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Dan Thomas said:
The steam/glass argument is much the same as the taildragger/trike argument. It is far easier to learn to fly taildraggers first rather than after learning on a trike.
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Agree to disagree. I did my entire private, instrument and commercial training in trikes. The vast majority of my hours since are tailwheel. Don't recall how long it took me to get the endorsement but it wasn't long and it wasn't hard. If a student does their private training in glass and then finds they can't safely fly steam, its either a failure of the student or the CFI or both. But it ain't the fault of the panel.
 
JonH said:
I'm at the airport today and a CFI is ramming the 'ol "you must fly steam" speech. I get it, that's how I started. It has obvious benefits.

Why choose one or the other. Wouldn't the best option be glass with some backup steam gauges? What's so bad about that? You get BOTH! I get home and look at the cover of Sporty's and it's "Glass vs Steam" lol.

Why can't both be the answer? Cost? Are steam gauges too ugly to go into modern aircraft? I really don't get what would be so horrible about having a full glass panel with steam gyro, ai, and alt.

</rant>
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We gotta fight about something. It’s either this, or low vs high wing or trike vs tail dragger.
 
TheBoatDude said:
We gotta fight about something. It’s either this, or low vs high wing or trike vs tail dragger.
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And a few others:
LOP vs ROP
Who was/is the best pilot
Bonanza vs Mooney vs Cirrus
Can you log ...

And maybe even argue about what to argue about ( meta-argue )?
 
You can always use both. How about low wing versus high wing.
 
I’m fine with either or. 95% of my training has been on “steam” gauges.
 
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