Why do our airplanes scare people?

jfrye01

jfrye01

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jacob Frye
Not sure I understand. I have friends and family who will hop airliners all day long and not think twice, but the second I offer to fly them around in the Skyhawk, they respond with something like "little planes scare me." Not quite sure I understand at all, maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's the media, maybe it's me ( :p ), maybe it's a combination of these factors..
Sorry, just a late night ramble...carry on:p
 
It might be because airline travel in the US is statistically much, much, safer than "little airplane" travel. Someone who's better at math can figure out how much safer, but it's a lot.

This is not to say that I agree with their decisions, but a comparison to airline travel does not make GA look good. Now, compared to motorcycles or ATVs? Maybe on-par.
 
Heh.

It is ignorance, yes, but it has an added component of resistance because "thinking is hard", so there's no opportunity to reason with them and explain what steps you personally undertook responsibility for (say what?!) to make a particular flight safe to conduct.

These are the same people who feel safer having a DMV dropout roggle their crotchal area looking for "omg jihad" in >3.4oz quantities.

Same people who the warnings on your shampoo bottle, snickers bar wrapper, and your friend's "personal lubricant" were written for.

Critical Thinking is a parlor trick these days, not a life skill. It induces eye-rolls in the sheeple. Taking these types flying will only annoy them, waste your precious avgas money, and allow to tell their facebook friends that they "cheated death #yolo #scared" by remaining seated in a plush vinyl seat. They will have taken no notice of your actual expert manipulation of controls, interpretation of instruments, or amassing of arcane trivia and knowledge to undertake the flight successfully.

Pass me my cane. There are young'ns approaching my lawn. :D

$0.02

- Mike
 
schmookeeg said:
Heh.

It is ignorance, yes, but it has an added component of resistance because "thinking is hard", so there's no opportunity to reason with them and explain what steps you personally undertook responsibility for (say what?!) to make a particular flight safe to conduct.

These are the same people who feel safer having a DMV dropout roggle their crotchal area looking for "omg jihad" in >3.4oz quantities.

Same people who the warnings on your shampoo bottle, snickers bar wrapper, and your friend's "personal lubricant" were written for.

Critical Thinking is a parlor trick these days, not a life skill. It induces eye-rolls in the sheeple. Taking these types flying will only annoy them, waste your precious avgas money, and allow to tell their facebook friends that they "cheated death #yolo #scared" by remaining seated in a plush vinyl seat. They will have taken no notice of your actual expert manipulation of controls, interpretation of instruments, or amassing of arcane trivia and knowledge to undertake the flight successfully.

Pass me my cane. There are young'ns approaching my lawn. :D

$0.02

- Mike
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:rofl: :rofl: Very very true...;)
 
Maybe they like airplane but don't trust you. They are just trying to be nice. LOL!
 
pigpenracing said:
Maybe they like airplane but don't trust you. They are just trying to be nice. LOL!
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Seems legit..."Hey, I wanna ride in that airplane!" *sees me step out* "Oooh *points at battered old trainer 150* "I mean that one!!"
:sad: :eek:
 
I'm a bad GA advocate, because I'll talk people out of flying with me.

It's pretty sad but true that maybe one in a dozen will like it. It seem's nothing good rarely comes from it. So I avoid it. Now if they're begging and begging and they really want to fly, then that's o.k. They're usually the one's who will love it and show interest. Maybe.

And then there is always that little nagging liability voice in the back of my head ...
 
I've noticed that the people who seem the most apprehensive are the ones who enjoy it most once talked into it...they're always glad they gave in...
Yep, in the litigious society we live in, I often think the same thoughts...
 
jfrye01 said:
I've noticed that the people who seem the most apprehensive are the ones who enjoy it most once talked into it...they're always glad they gave in...
Yep, in the litigious society we live in, I often think the same thoughts...
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I guess that's where I fail because I've never tried to 'talk someone into it'.

Sure, my wife, the kids, some close friends and relatives I offer my plane to them as a global "what's mine is yours" type gesture, but I don't hammer them into flying with me. I'm not answering your question as much as I'm regurgitating personal minutia.

Little airplanes scare the bejesus out of some people and I don't know why either. They'll hop a jet or a roller coaster in a heartbeat. My own wife says she 'feels better' the bigger the plane is even though I've explained the engine out glide ratio scenario to her and she understands it. :dunno:
 
txflyer said:
I guess that's where I fail because I've never tried to 'talk someone into it'.

Sure, my wife, the kids, some close friends and relatives I offer my plane to them as a global "what's mine is yours" type gesture, but I don't hammer them into flying with me. I'm not answering your question as much as I'm regurgitating personal minutia.

Little airplanes scare the bejesus out of some people and I don't know why either. They'll hop a jet or a roller coaster in a heartbeat. My own wife says she 'feels better' the bigger the plane is even though I've explained the engine out glide ratio scenario to her and she understands it. :dunno:
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I'll never personally try to talk someone into it, if they don't wish to fly, frankly, I don't really want to run the risk of them panicking in the airplane. Usually it is a friend of theirs (or whoever accompanied them to the airport) that talks them into going along...
 
I'm going to go off the reservation a little, as is my wont. Mike danced around it a bit but I think there's something more elemental at work these days.

Many people, particularly young people are not ready, or can't handle the unfettered liberty of general aviation. So many thing are either proscribed, or tightly controlled or regulated to the point of being afraid of their own shadow.

We've all heard the lament; "You mean you can get in the plane and just -- go anywhere? Who gives you permission?" When you try to convince them that this is on the up-and-up, and that you really do know how to fly the plane, and navigate, get home, land and all that stuff, it just seems like something must be verboten.

Years ago, back in the '70s people didn't think this way. I used to take girls flying all the time, and they would show their gratitude, and express interest. It wasn't some kind of death-wish, or illegal voodoo activity that only scofflaws engaged in. People flew small planes, they gave rides, no one questioned their rights to aviate. Now, if you don't get permission from the feds to drop a deuce, it seems like a federal crime.

This is pretty sad, but also accurate. You've met those people, it's not just fear of the outcome, but fear of living a full and exciting life without permission from above.
 
I've taken a number of people on their first flight in a GA plane. Started with showing them around the airport (nontowered), explaining general aviation, walked them through the preflight and explained - briefly - how airplanes fly. Once away from the airport, I show them how the controls work and give the yoke to them for a few minutes. Next is finding some easy landmarks and the their house. After that it's my yoke and they find some site on the ground as we orbit and I discreetly pull power to idle, starting at 2500 AGL (we're in a 172). After maybe a minute and descending through about 1200 AGL or so, the passenger that this was a simulated power loss, that we don't solo until we can handle it and it's part of recurrnt training. So far - 13 years of flying - everyone has wanted to fly again ASAP.
 
I've taken a number of people on their first flight in a GA plane. Started with showing them around the airport (nontowered), explaining general aviation, walked them through the preflight and explained - briefly - how airplanes fly. Once away from the airport, I show them how the controls work and give the yoke to them for a few minutes. Next is finding some easy landmarks and their house. After that it's my yoke and they find some site on the ground as we orbit and I discreetly pull power to idle, starting at 2500 AGL (we're in a 172). After maybe a minute and descending through about 1200 AGL or so, the passenger learns that this was a simulated power loss, that we don't solo until we can handle it and it's part of recurrent training. So far - 13 years of flying - everyone has wanted to fly again ASAP.

I was also lucky enough to have a primary CFI who told me, even prior to solo, to fly the plane like there are 300 people in back who I want to fly with me again.
 
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What does safe mean? People die flying airplanes, people die eating hot dogs, so both have an element of risk. It is not a matter of safety or not, but a matter of risk tolerance or risk aversion. Your friends/family that are worried about flying with you are saying the risk involved is above their level of tolerance. I fly because I love to fly and it is a lifestyle choice I make, but I won't get on motorcycle because I am risk averse to them (i.e. the risk is not worth the reward for me personally).

Statistically the risks of GA vs commercial are pretty well documented, but the statistics are limited because for GA (and automobile) it is impossible to know how many hours/miles people fly/drive year...but based on estimates from the Nall report and other sources, the risk of dying in a GA plane is about one order of magnitude (approx 10x) that of dying in a commercial plane for the same trip, give or take some. Also, this is about 5x the risk of dying in a car crash.

To say it another way, if you were to fly commercial vs drive, the risk of dying in a car crash is about 5x greater than on the commercial airliner. In comparison the risk of dying in GA vs driving is about 5x more if you fly your self vs drive. It is interesting that the difference in risk for Commercial vs Driving is almost the same as Driving vs GA, but no one gives a second thought to driving on a trip instead of taking the safer commercial flight.

General aviation, truly is not safe, since safe would imply an absence of risk. There are several big names in GA that are trying to move the discussion to acknowledging and managing the risk, instead of propagating the story that GA is "safe".

If your interested, here is a good read. http://www.kingschools.com/news/BigLie.htm

This is probably the best quote from the article, and also most honest answer you can give someone if they say it is risky.

'Yeah, you're right there ARE risks involved. But what you're going to .... do is manage those risks.......We should change the culture to accept the risk, talk about the risk and take pride in managing it as opposed to pride in beating the odds......I'm willing to accept those risks that I cannot control in general aviation, but I'll also say that there are a lot of things that we can control, and what we should not do is tell ourselves that general aviation is safe, because then we're ignoring the risks that we can control.'

--Quoted excerpts by John King
 
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Some people are so scared to die they will not live.
 
txflyer said:
I'm a bad GA advocate, because I'll talk people out of flying with me.

It's pretty sad but true that maybe one in a dozen will like it. It seem's nothing good rarely comes from it. So I avoid it. Now if they're begging and begging and they really want to fly, then that's o.k. They're usually the one's who will love it and show interest. Maybe.

And then there is always that little nagging liability voice in the back of my head ...
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:yesnod:...
 
Recent events don't help. I am starting to feel anxious toward it. I also haven't flown in a while...so we'll see
 
txflyer said:
I'm a bad GA advocate, because I'll talk people out of flying with me.
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^ This ^. I'd rather be low-key about it. Same with the sailboat. I'm not sure what's in the DNA of people who feel they must be an "advocate" or "ambassador" for a hobby. Other than the potential "look at me" ego factor, I don't get it.

Enjoy your hobby.
 
jfrye01 said:
Not sure I understand. I have friends and family who will hop airliners all day long and not think twice, but the second I offer to fly them around in the Skyhawk, they respond with something like "little planes scare me."
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I ride motorcycles, and most family and friends won't ride on the bike with me, because "bikes scare me", and I understand why. On a bike, you have a significantly higher chance of grave injury or death if you get in an accident.

From what I've read, small GA airplane risk is similar to that of motorcycle riders. I have no problems with those who don't want to fly/ride, and don't push the issue.
 
It might be you. Anyway it is a rational fear. Either ignore people that don't want to go or mock them for being chicken. Best plan is not to invite anyone, let em ask. Or do what most of us do and not even tell people we are pilots.
 
ClimbnSink said:
It might be you. Anyway it is a rational fear. Either ignore people that don't want to go or mock them for being chicken. Best plan is not to invite anyone, let em ask. Or do what most of us do and not even tell people we are pilots.
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It is mostly fear of the unkown and media hype of anything out of the ordinary. When one considers the number of automobile accidents with injury or death that do not make the news, and let an airplane land safely in a field that does, it is no wonder people have apprehension. I enjoy flying young eagles because the children WANT to fly. I usually invite the parents along as well. Many wimp out but still let their child go.
Compared to airline travel, which has been fairly common place since the mid 20th century, GA is a death machine. BUT, 30 million hours annually, and many millions of miles, it is still more safe than taking a bath in your own home or backing your car out of your driveway.
You are fighting the media when you try to convince anyone to fly. You either have to offer them something they really want to do (museum they want to see, vacation spot to visit, sightseeing, dinner) or ignore the whole thing and just carry on. Some will eventually ask, some will never even though they will go off to Disneyland for vacation.
 
Interesting discussion. When I flew 20 years ago my wife flew with me all the time even pregnant. Now our kids are 21 and 17 and I am flying again and she was planning to go with me for the first time since getting back and started having second thoughts just before I left the house. Mainly a concern about leaving the kids with no parents if something was to happen.

I said there is enough money in the house and the 401Ks to get the children through the next 5-10 years and they will survive they are adults. I said would you go for a motorcycle ride with me today if I had one (I used to). She said, yes. TO which I replied, its the same level of risk.

She said she was unsure and I simply said if you are unsure I don't want you to go. To which she said, I wasn't much help. I said I am not going to talk you into going. There is risk you either accept it or you don't. I understand she is torn between her maternal instincts and she does enjoy flying always has even commercial. Maybe when the kids are older who knows.

The funny thing about statistics is that truly they are meaningless at an individual level. If you are the one who augers in because of some stupid mistake or even something out of your control the fact that maybe "statistically" it shouldn't have happened to you that day is irrelevant.
 
It is not the media, it is a rational observation. People see me flying having no idea such contraptions existed and don't assume it is safe although their minds have not been pre-opiniated by the media. If it looks like a shark, it might just be a shark,
 
The only thing non pilots see about small airplanes is crashes. Of course they're wary.
 
You have to differentiate between being scared and having an actual fear of injury or death. Humans have a natural fear of falling, it's part of our self preservation mechanism. Flying in a light airplane triggers this fear in a lot of people, and for those people, they're not going to go flying because they won't enjoy it, not because they think they're going to die. One flight over a local area on a nice weather day isn't very risky.
 
ClimbnSink said:
It might be you. Anyway it is a rational fear. Either ignore people that don't want to go or mock them for being chicken. Best plan is not to invite anyone, let em ask. Or do what most of us do and not even tell people we are pilots.
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As I've mentioned before, I'm somewhat embarrassed to tell people I'm a pilot (cute girls are an exception :lol: ). Usually what happens is my dad or brother brings a friend to the airport and offers them an airplane ride with me (usually without asking me first :mad2:)
 
jfrye01 said:
As I've mentioned before, I'm somewhat embarrassed to tell people I'm a pilot (cute girls are an exception :lol: ). Usually what happens is my dad or brother brings a friend to the airport and offers them an airplane ride with me (usually without asking me first :mad2:)
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Play it off arrogant, scoff at them, and perhaps step it up to outright mockery.
 
jfrye01 said:
Not sure I understand. I have friends and family who will hop airliners all day long and not think twice, but the second I offer to fly them around in the Skyhawk, they respond with something like "little planes scare me." Not quite sure I understand at all, maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's the media, maybe it's me ( :p ), maybe it's a combination of these factors..
Sorry, just a late night ramble...carry on:p
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because of what happened yesterday in Austin. Smoke from a crashed Piper visible from the airport and the big iron had to divert to San Antonio.:dunno:
 
Sounds you know some smart people.
And even after a half century of flying I don't go up with someone I barely know in an airplane I know nothing about.
And I sure as heck don't go up with someone who is trolling for people to take for a ride.
 
How many friends, relatives, girl- or boyfriends do you know that are bad drivers? At least a couple, right? Now imagine them coming to you and saying "I just got my pilots license".

That's why.
 
Part of the "fear" is that people don't really have much fun anymore.

Back in the olden days we used to skinny dip in the creek, jump off the railroad bridge into the river, drive through the country in the middle of the night, with a carload and turn off the lights, just to feel the thrill of doing something. Anything.

Now kids can't play baseball on a sandlot, without ten adults making sure that fun doesn't break out, and that ALL the rules are carefully followed.

Now the school wants a doctor's note before your kid can use his own chap stick.

The new world of PC, and liberalism has and is hammering the fun out everyone, everywhere, and exchanging it for conformity, control, and power over the individual.
 
Florida Cracker said:
Part of the "fear" is that people don't really have much fun anymore.

Back in the olden days we used to skinny dip in the creek, jump off the railroad bridge into the river, drive through the country in the middle of the night, with a carload and turn off the lights, just to feel the thrill of doing something. Anything.

Now kids can't play baseball on a sandlot, without ten adults making sure that fun doesn't break out, and that ALL the rules are carefully followed.

Now the school wants a doctor's note before your kid can use his own chap stick.

The new world of PC, and liberalism has and is hammering the fun out everyone, everywhere, and exchanging it for conformity, control, and power over the individual.
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the pussification of America is well under way
 
jfrye01 said:
Not sure I understand. I have friends and family who will hop airliners all day long and not think twice, but the second I offer to fly them around in the Skyhawk, they respond with something like "little planes scare me." Not quite sure I understand at all, maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's the media, maybe it's me ( :p ), maybe it's a combination of these factors..
Sorry, just a late night ramble...carry on:p
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A. your friends know you...they don't know the 'professional' sitting unseen in the cockpit of the commercial jet. familiarity breeds suspicion.

B. riding in a commercial plane at 35k feet is the same as taking a bus ride with no windows

C. small aircraft are low enough to see crap on the ground and the ground itself...too close for comfort.

D. small plane crashes are the most personal, and messiest. And seem to happen more often than the one large airliner going down.

E. perception that small planes lack the same kind of power and safety than the big ones.
 
Florida Cracker said:
Part of the "fear" is that people don't really have much fun anymore.

Back in the olden days we used to skinny dip in the creek, jump off the railroad bridge into the river, drive through the country in the middle of the night, with a carload and turn off the lights, just to feel the thrill of doing something. Anything.

Now kids can't play baseball on a sandlot, without ten adults making sure that fun doesn't break out, and that ALL the rules are carefully followed.

Now the school wants a doctor's note before your kid can use his own chap stick.

The new world of PC, and liberalism has and is hammering the fun out everyone, everywhere, and exchanging it for conformity, control, and power over the individual.
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The feminazation of America is well under way.
 
Because the airplanes are small. When I take people up, I let them fly. I'll let go of the yoke and show that the plane won't dive bomb and spiral out of control just by letting go of the controls and that the plane is stable and wants to go back to equilibrium.
 
Most people are pretty hep to small aircraft crashes. They also are aware that airline pilots have a lot more training than the average " weekend " type pilot. They also clock how people act in general, temperament, reaction to everyday traffic problems, drinking, all kinds of inputs. A lot of factors enter into their decision and have ever since I started flying 50 years ago. I prefer to fly alone and have for the past 20 years , more or less, as I'm aware of how badly a passenger would want to sue me if something transpired that would give them the chance to do just that. Too much too lose. I'm very careful who I get a ride with in a plane or a car. Always have been. If you check the monthly accident reports, the careless mistakes, stupid decisions with weather, flying an aircraft the pilot had no business being in in an emergency, on and on. ( I haven't even mentioned that the average renter like well worn 172, etc. is probably 40 years old at least and who knows what's happened to it. Lots of reasons to beware. )
 
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CTLSi said:
A. your friends know you...they don't know the 'professional' sitting unseen in the cockpit of the commercial jet. familiarity breeds suspicion.
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Big reason right there why a lot of wives won't fly with the husband.
 
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