Why can't it be easier to find out FBO fees?

UngaWunga said:
Anyways.... fees are one thing. I find it difficult to even find out what FBOs are at an airport. Have to do that before I need to call them to ask about fees.
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Have you never used Airnav? More or less the definitive source for that info. It's not 100% accurate, but it's pretty damn close.

www.airnav.com
 
James331 said:
Just like in NY and CA right lol...
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Can you be more specific about your concerns about California firearms laws? I know that San Francisco has some issues, but what about the rest of the state?
 
Has anyone seen a list of what items the TSA prohibits on private aircraft?
 
Yeah, I've used that site. But as you said, its not completely accurate. Just like the fees. Why is finding the FBOs at a field and their fees such a hard thing to do?
I can get weather around the world with a simple click. I can get runway length and all kinds of info about the runway, taxiways, lighting, etc. But nothing tells me about the commercial businesses at an airport. Also have the same problem finding if an airport has a restaurant.

And why, at public airports, do I need to pay an FBO to park in public transient parking spots?
 
bradg33 said:
Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've never had an issue with FBOs providing accurate fee information over the phone (or via email) when I call prior to a flight. I don't bother checking if it's a smaller airport, but I do when going into
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Me too. Most of the time, the fees aren't on my dime but when I fly for leisure, the FBO reps are usually on their game.
 
UngaWunga said:
Yeah, I've used that site. But as you said, its not completely accurate. Just like the fees. Why is finding the FBOs at a field and their fees such a hard thing to do?
I can get weather around the world with a simple click. I can get runway length and all kinds of info about the runway, taxiways, lighting, etc. But nothing tells me about the commercial businesses at an airport. Also have the same problem finding if an airport has a restaurant.

And why, at public airports, do I need to pay an FBO to park in public transient parking spots?
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I use Airnav all the time and find it to be extremely accurate. While it's not 100% accurate, what is? Even the AF/D isn't 100% accurate all the time (things change between updates, etc.). It's not like you can go to a single source online and find a 100% accurate listing of all gas stations in any given city.

You're really blowing the "locating FBOs" thing out of proportion. With Airnav, Accukwik, and Foreflight/Garmin Pilot's FBO section, it's actually very, very easy to find out what FBOs are at various airports. Want to know fees? Pickup the phone. It's not "hard" by any means. The fee thing is slightly inconvenient, but a quick call usually sorts it out.
 
UngaWunga said:
...Also have the same problem finding if an airport has a restaurant....
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For restaurants, hotels, etc., I find the airport on maps.google.com and use the search nearby feature to find whatever type of business I'm looking for.
 
Remember that FBOs often charge fees based on the size of the aircraft, so it's not as simple as having one fee listed. I've seen them look through a spreadsheet to find our fee.
 
Everskyward said:
Remember that FBOs often charge fees based on the size of the aircraft, so it's not as simple as having one fee listed. I've seen them look through a spreadsheet to find our fee.
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This is very true. Any effort to compile a list of fees would need to indicate aircraft type.
 
Palmpilot said:
Can you be more specific about your concerns about California firearms laws? I know that San Francisco has some issues, but what about the rest of the state?
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How about this poor guy

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/help-with-background-check.99926/#post-2191901

Didn't hurt anyone, protected under the constitution, but California is going to try to ruin this guys life over a semi automatic rifle, he might even end up in prision, his freedom and much of his future, after a possible conviction, destroyed.
 
Everskyward said:
I doubt they care about what is going into your airplane, only what is going out onto the ramp. Pretty sure the area outside Signature is considered a secure area at Boston.
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Yeah, I thought about that. But they allow the wholesale searches of passengers boarding planes under the 4th amendment due to the fear of someone blowing a large passenger plane up or flying it into a building. But there aren't those same concerns taking your bag to your own plane. So they need to show some other compelling reason before allowing a body screening and searching people's bags without a warrant, even if it they can criminalize firearms on the ramp outside of Signature.
 
Abram said:
Every time that I am scheduled to go somewhere, I figure out which airport and FBO that I am going to use, typically based upon which Contract Fuel Program they accept. I almost always shoot for a CAA airport and FBO. Then, I get on the phone and ask the person at the desk of the FBO that I am planning to use what other fees I can expect. As mentioned previously, I get a name and write down the information. I find that FBOs are relatively reasonable about the other fees if you talk to them up front. On occasion, I need to have a manager call me back to get relief on fees that are excessive.

I used to use Signature a lot because I like the facilities and they have very professional staff. However, for about the past year or so, I have found them to be noncompetitive with regard to their additional fees and fuel prices. When I discuss it with the management, they are inflexible. So, I have been using their competition and have been very pleased with the service and the prices.

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY
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The height of the BS fees was when we went to Las Vegas last Spring for a night with a friend who had never been to Vegas. . .

We arrived on April 30 - and left May 1 - they instituted an extra 'ramp fee' of $100 on top of overnight parking because there was a big fight that night - I asked to waive the fee and they said no-- I say your fee was never disclosed - it is for the fight - and we're LEAVING. It is an overnight fee for May 1, 2 and 3 right? They agreed - I said I was not here over night May 1, I was overnight April 30.

They eventually waived the fee - but I was lit up over it -
 
James331 said:
Just like in NY and CA right lol

As a law abiding citizen, if I came to your state with a 15round mag, I'd be treated as a criminal and they would try to steal my freedom and rights.
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Wrong: you would be a criminal, and they would steal your freedom...at the point of a gun.
 
gsengle said:
I have firearms in MA. Next?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Probably only allowed to have this (not loaded of course):
doglock02.JPG
 
UngaWunga said:
And why, at public airports, do I need to pay an FBO to park in public transient parking spots?
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Million dollar question. Maybe you should write the Chief Counsel for an official opinion.
 
Everskyward said:
Remember that FBOs often charge fees based on the size of the aircraft, so it's not as simple as having one fee listed. I've seen them look through a spreadsheet to find our fee.
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And often the person answering the phone doesn't know a Cirrus from a contraceptive.
 
PPC1052 said:
Yeah, I thought about that. But they allow the wholesale searches of passengers boarding planes under the 4th amendment due to the fear of someone blowing a large passenger plane up or flying it into a building. But there aren't those same concerns taking your bag to your own plane. So they need to show some other compelling reason before allowing a body screening and searching people's bags without a warrant, even if it they can criminalize firearms on the ramp outside of Signature.
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But "they" let you go out on the ramp at other airports, in Massachusetts and elsewhere, without a search. There are only a few places where you go through a metal detector. I remember OHare being another one.
 
paflyer said:
Aw, crap; I really wanted to hear his opinion on "equal protection".
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I do too. Just don't be disrespectful to other members. There are quite a few regulars here I don't agree with but I try to be respectful. The few times I wasn't I appreciated the nudge from the membership to be nice. I'm just returning the favor. ;-)
 
James331 said:
Lolz, security fee!

Will your FBO be responsible for any theft or criminal activity which damages my aircraft?

No

so you're not really providing security, at least any worth anything, for my aircraft, you just want money, like a bum asking for a handout?
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The security fee is not to protect you. It is to protect everyone else from you.
 
Everskyward said:
But "they" let you go out on the ramp at other airports, in Massachusetts and elsewhere, without a search. There are only a few places where you go through a metal detector. I remember OHare being another one.
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Sorry. I am not following the point you are trying to make here. My point was that the general rule is that an officer can't just stop and search people with no warrant. Some compelling reason must exist that to make a warrantless search reasonable as required for the 4th amendment. The courts have found that reason to exist for boarding common carriers. I see no reason why mandating a body and bag search by TSA in order to access a private plane justifies a warrantless search, regardless if it only occurs at only a few airports.
 
PPC1052 said:
Sorry. I am not following the point you are trying to make here. My point was that the general rule is that an officer can't just stop and search people with no warrant. Some compelling reason must exist that to make a warrantless search reasonable as required for the 4th amendment. The courts have found that reason to exist for boarding common carriers. I see no reason why mandating a body and bag search by TSA in order to access a private plane justifies a warrantless search, regardless if it only occurs at only a few airports.
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Someone was saying that they should not search passengers who are about to board a Part 91 airplane. My point was that they don't care what airplane you are about to board. They are screening you because you are in the secure area.
 
Everskyward said:
Someone was saying that they should not search passengers who are about to board a Part 91 airplane. My point was that they don't care what airplane you are about to board. They are screening you because you are in the secure area.
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Ah. Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I was envisioning a set-up where you can't access the common carriers from the FBO. If there is 121 service from the FBO where you are trying to get to your own plane, then that probably does change things a little bit.
 
PPC1052 said:
Ah. Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I was envisioning a set-up where you can't access the common carriers from the FBO. If there is 121 service from the FBO where you are trying to get to your own plane, then that probably does change things a little bit.
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That's essentially the issue at BOS. The FBO is right next to the international terminal. Once on the FBO ramp, you could, in theory, walk right out to a British Airways 777.

What makes it seem silly is that other small airports with 121 service use the same terminal building for airline and FBO and they simply paint a red 'do not enter' line around the 121 ramp area. But there is no screening of the GA side.
 
paflyer said:
Wrong: you would be a criminal, and they would steal your freedom...at the point of a gun.
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Well you would be protected by the constitution of the United States of America, any unconstitutional law is not a law.

And no one can steal your freedom, it's your choice if you want to give it to them, though sometimes is a choice between your freedom or likley your life.
 
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James331 said:
Well you would be protected by the constitution of the United States of America, any unconstitutional law is not a law.

And no one can steal your freedom, it's your choice if you want to give it to them, though sometimes is a choice between your freedom of likley your life.
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Mel%20Gibson%20as%20William%20Wallace-8x6.jpg
 
Unlike what the media and government would like you to believe, albeit unpopular, what I said was truth.
 
PPC1052 said:
Why weren't they "your" bags? Do you only permit your crew one bag? I would have told TSA that it's my airline, and my pilot (me) is allowed unlimited baggage for free, and those are all my bags. Passengers aren't allowed any bags. Problem solved.
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Wait a minnit. I'm PIC, she's SIC, kid 1 is navigator, kid 2 is flight engineer, etc... We are all crew, and have no PAX.
 
bluerooster said:
Wait a minnit. I'm PIC, she's SIC, kid 1 is navigator, kid 2 is flight engineer, etc... We are all crew, and have no PAX.
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This works in Europe. Many airports charge per pax but not for crew. Our Saratoga had a crew of 5.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yes. But the funniest part is that they didn't screen me because I was the crew. Just my wife and kids. And then we walked out to the plane together. Completely absurd. But that is what happens when Massport gets involved.
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A CFI cert would be helpful there... all of a sudden your wife is taking flight lessons, and therefore, crew. Tell them to be idiots and search the children all they like. Joke that the kids probably are planning to try to kill mom and dad and they've got devious plans to do it in the family truckster as you point on the airplane on the ramp.

PPC1052 said:
Why weren't they "your" bags? Do you only permit your crew one bag? I would have told TSA that it's my airline, and my pilot (me) is allowed unlimited baggage for free, and those are all my bags. Passengers aren't allowed any bags. Problem solved.
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LOL. That'd be fun, too.
 
mtuomi said:
"Signature nomatterwhere, how can I help?"
"Yes, I'm flying to justthere tomorrow and am looking to park my bugsmasher for the night, what are your ramp fees?"
"Our ramp fee is $42 for an overnight parking, and it can be waived with a 15 gallon purchase"
"Ok, thank you, see you tomorrow"

*** flight happens ***

tomorrow +1:

"Hi, I'm about to depart and I just bought 15 gallons of fuel, can I pay for my fuel?"
"Yes, your total is $194.50"
"Hmm, your AVGAS is $8.90 per gallon, 15 gallons should be $133.50?"
"Yes, but there is a Security Fee of $15, your Facility Fee of $30, and your used-the-coffee-maker fee of $16".

This is way too common with the big brand FBOs. (ed. note. I use Atlantic, because they have always been upfront about them with me).
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That's not SOP, at least not for previous Landmarks. You type in the tail number and the computer spits out every number for every fee. You're required to say them all along with a bunch of other junk. I have friends that work at OG Signatures and it's the same there. If the CSR doesn't do that script in an audit they get reprimanded*. Even if you provide inadequate information they have to give you all this scripted junk. But yes, the secruity fee is very real but total BS
 
Z06_Mir said:
That's not SOP, at least not for previous Landmarks. You type in the tail number and the computer spits out every number for every fee. You're required to say them all along with a bunch of other junk. I have friends that work at OG Signatures and it's the same there. If the CSR doesn't do that script in an audit they get reprimanded*. Even if you provide inadequate information they have to give you all this scripted junk. But yes, the secruity fee is very real but total BS
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I always feel bad that the fancy FBOs make the kids stand there in suits while they rattle off that stuff. Bygone era. Useless. Especially at the pay scales most of them pay.
 
denverpilot said:
I always feel bad that the fancy FBOs make the kids stand there in suits while they rattle off that stuff. Bygone era. Useless. Especially at the pay scales most of them pay.
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Hah. Yeah. I did not get paid well. If I went back today I imagine the situation would be different (better) as my location became a Ross Aviation and not a Signature. The "Monkey Suit" as we called it was ridiculous... I always wore the dress because it meant one less piece of clothing to put on. Met some great people though, coworkers and customers, and gained some fantastic experience on what not to do. I just wish we had a little more freedom when it came to making decisions on pricing. We had a report we printed out at the end of the night that had the discounts/margins on each type of fuel so the person doing accounting would know if you gave someone way too big of a discount. We also promised way more people hangar space than we physically had space for. That was super fun....
 
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