Why are people afraid of Class B?

spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
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Ben
People bitched and whined when one of the local airports went to Class D.

But with the gliders, gyrocopters, helocopters, students, bizjets, and even blimps. THAT was a place to be afraid of.

Do people feel safer in uncontrolled airspace? Or can they just not talk on the radio?

/rant off
 
I generally feel safer in controlled airspace. But not tremendously so. And some class D airports are so busy, that they are probably a higher collision risk than most quiet uncontrolled fields.


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I love controlled airspace for certain things and certain trips. Sometimes it can be a pain, but down where I live there are a few pilot-controlled fields that are generally a mess. KVNC for example. They get a lot of weekend warriors and recently they thought it would be a great idea to add skydiving. So, now in addition to the guys that fly their C150's one time a year at just above stall speed in a 3 mile pattern around the field calling upwind,crosswind,downwind,base and final, we get to deal with meat bombs...
 
I love controlled airspace and don't mind being in it a bit. I also have lots and lots of practice on the radio in both controlled and uncontrolled environments. I like the fact that somewhere out there is another set of eyes trying to help keep a look out for me, although I know I'm ultimately the one responsible for the safety of flight. I believe you are correct, people are a little afraid, but probably more of not doing it correctly or being embarrassed on the radio. I don't know why. We all had to start somewhere. Others just don't want (or need) to talk on the radio at uncontrolled places...others just don't have time to be bothered by it. Busier places need more communication between pilots though, especially if it's as you say it is. I know the rule is see and avoid, but if I'm anywhere near an airfield, I'm announcing my position, hoping someone is listening on the other end that might be arriving or departing.
 
spiderweb said:
Or can they just not talk on the radio?
Click to expand...

This.

Inexperience, unprepared, and not knowing what to expect and too scared to ask others for help.

Have heard some rambling babbling pilots on radio be denied Bravo access when other are sent right through. There are plenty of pilots out there that are afraid to go into towered fields let alone Bravo airspace!
 
spiderweb said:
People bitched and whined when one of the local airports went to Class D.

But with the gliders, gyrocopters, helocopters, students, bizjets, and even blimps. THAT was a place to be afraid of.

Do people feel safer in uncontrolled airspace? Or can they just not talk on the radio?

/rant off
Click to expand...

Same reason they are afraid of
Spins
2000' runways
Slips
Dogs

Just were never exposed to it.
 
I don't mind non towered airports, but all of my training was in class C, so I'm really used to it.
 
My perspective could be different because all of my training was around class D and C space, but uncontrolled scares me a lot more than controlled air space. I think people are more afraid of class B because they make a very big deal of it in initial training and how you *CANNOT* fly into it without explicit clearance.. so they build it up psychologically

But I mean, if you are competent and can follow simple directions on the radio like maintain an altitude or follow a heading then I never got the big fear of it

I *do* find thought that controllers generally have less patience for BS in class B. So you should study the class B charts, frequencies, approach and departure patterns of the big airports, and be familiar with any VFR corridors. If you are prepared it should be a non event
 
I am assuming B is a typo and you meant D based on your initial post.

I train aspiring gyroplane pilots at The Santa Maria Public Airport (SMX); a class D airport.

I find ATC is always ready to help any way they can.

I like having them looking out for us.

After checking the weather I usually make two radio calls and acknowledge one instruction and one clearance flying into SMX.

By listening I have a pretty good sense of where everyone is and what they are planning to do.

In my opinion there is a lot more radio challenge flying into nearby pilot controlled Santa Ynez (IZA).

After checking the weather I make a minimum or four radio calls flying into IZA and I can’t depend on the other pilots to make correct position reports or fly the pattern.
 
Probably didn't get enough exposure during training. I've pretty much landed GA at every Class B airport in the NE and mid Atlantic. They're not a big deal.
 
midlifeflyer said:
What people?
Click to expand...
A lot of posts here asking questions and showing a fear of Class B.

James331 has it right.

For example, if you learned to drive where it never snows, or in a rural village, are really a competent pilot? And I'm not talking about needing a full course in formation flying, or aerobatics. Flying in ALL classes of airspace--even for VFR pilots--should be basic.
 
Since the title is about Class B and the first post is about Class D, is this where I share my fear of the dark and roller coasters?
 
Some D fields are D in name only (DINO?) because their traffic is as light as some uncontrolled fields. Jeff City (MO State Capitol) has great tower people and does have heavy traffic when political events are active, light traffic otherwise.
 
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NoBShere said:
Since the title is about Class B and the first post is about Class D, is this where I share my fear of the dark and roller coasters?
Click to expand...
Go ahead.

The reason I mention Class D, is t
midlifeflyer said:
You don't get exposed to everything in training.
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Sure, but unless a Class B or even Class C is so far away as to be impractical to visit, I think it is important to make a few forays into the airspace while still being trained. If it IS very far away, then it won't be necessary anyway.
 
spiderweb said:
A lot of posts here asking questions and showing a fear of Class B.

James331 has it right.

For example, if you learned to drive where it never snows, or in a rural village, are really a competent pilot? And I'm not talking about needing a full course in formation flying, or aerobatics. Flying in ALL classes of airspace--even for VFR pilots--should be basic.
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Non of my friends are afraid of class Bravo and many of them are gyroplane pilots.
Mismanaging class Bravo radio communications or airspace is a good way to generate an enforcement action.
 
spiderweb said:
A lot of posts here asking questions and showing a fear of Class B.
Click to expand...
Oh, you mean generally, not in this thread (since no one has expressed a fear of Class B). I guess some people are afraid of it. Heck, I've known pilots who have trained out of busy Class C and D airports who are afraid to nontowered airports.

But I don't assume people ask questions about Class B because they are afraid of it any more than anyone might ask questions about an operation or airspace or maneuver ot procedure he or she has little experience with.
 
I think of Class C/D as busier airports that still see a lot of GA traffic. Class B, in my view, is obviously geared more towards Commercial, at least the ones I'm familiar with. Lining up between Fedex Jets at MEM in a PA28 certainly makes you wonder if you're in the right place! I learned in a small town non-controlled environment with very little ATC communication training. The day finally came when I needed to check off the part of the PPL requirement of going to a controlled field (sleepy class Delta FWIW). I was terrified. My first call to the tower I read off my kneeboard notes.... "Tall Tower" Bugsmasher 1234". After they replied I froze. Mic fright. Terrified at the thought of stumbling on my words. The controllers response (although I'd studied so hard as to what to expect) sounded like a Charlie Brown phone conversation. My instructor looked over at me and said "are you gonna answer?" I could say nothing. Tower called back. CFI took over and finished that conversation. After a brief re-group following the first landing I tried again and was able to nervously communicate my desires.

When I got home that day I was determined I was going to break that fear. I watched lots of youtube videos (any really) and studied the lingo. I read up on flight following and decided I was going to get it any time I had the opportunity even though I often flew over pretty empty airspace from Podunk municipal to Podunk municipal. It worked. I'm now very confident well spoken on the radios. I'm rarely surprised by what I hear and the responses seem natural. I'm reaching for the altimeter knob at just the right moment before the next controller gives me the reading.

My experience is that mic fright is the #1 reason people stay away from Class Bravo. #2 would be just simply feeling like we're in the way and don't belong. If I fly to Bravo I'm not doing it for the heck of it... It's for a good reason. I've flown into MEM a few times and have learned that what they want is good radio communication and for me to be good at following directions... Don't piddle around. I have found the most challenging aspect for me at big airports is taxiing. Geesh, they're so wide, and everywhere! Took some confusion for me to figure out that progressive taxi following was the way to go. They don't have any way of knowing that you're not really familiar with the place, and I'm sure the vast majority of interaction they have is with pilots that ARE familiar.
 
spiderweb said:
Sure, but unless a Class B or even Class C is so far away as to be impractical to visit, I think it is important to make a few forays into the airspace while still being trained. If it IS very far away, then it won't be necessary anyway.
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I don't agree. Certainly, if it's nearby, it would be natural to deal with it and avoiding it would be stupid. But a special trip out of the way? Not necessary. I trained in Western Massachusetts and had plenty of exposure to Class C (ARSA back then) because there were a bunch nearby, except for the one I chose to land at during my long solo cross country. But neither I nor my CFIs saw much need to take the extra time just to fly into the Boston Class B. It didn't seem to bother me any.

On your second comment, it won't be necessary if it's outside their geographic training area, the small world in which we get out private certificates isn't necessarily the size of the universe we might fly to once we have a certificate. At least I hope not.
 
As @eman1200 can confirm, I avoid communication at all cost. I don't mind talking in the pattern but I get nervous talking to controllers. I am always afraid I will do something wrong and get busted. At least approaching an uncontrolled field I already know the routine and traffic pattern versus a controller giving all kinds of random directions. I know my aircrafts performance and limitations so I can sequence my self better than most controllers can. I will go to any non controlled field over a controlled one any day.
 
spiderweb said:
People bitched and whined when one of the local airports went to Class D.

But with the gliders, gyrocopters, helocopters, students, bizjets, and even blimps. THAT was a place to be afraid of.

Do people feel safer in uncontrolled airspace? Or can they just not talk on the radio?

/rant off
Click to expand...
fear of the unknown; fear of screwing up the radio call; fear of "everyone" watching and witnessing the crummy landing. I learned at a Class D but during and after training flew into a mix of towered and non-towered fields including a few Class C fields.
 
I think the fundamental reason is the same one people have trouble getting up in front of a crowd and giving a speech. Fear.
But then I am a blabber mouth, and I was based in the SFRA for my initial training. So, I never had an issue talking to ATC.

Tim
 
I had a lot of radio experience before I even started my PPL, so that part was a breeze. (It actually got me into trouble a few times during training, as I sounded too comfortable and controllers assumed I knew what I was doing better than I actually did!)

I trained at an uncontrolled airport that usually had at least one other aircraft in the pattern, and at times, could get quite busy. When I bought my plane, (during my PPL) I got signed off to base it at my home airport, which was Class D, so that I could fly it to my lessons. I got a lot of experience with towered fields that way, and found flying into towered fields to be a great benefit to improving my improvisational landing skills, as the tower rarely gave me standard pattern entries or patterns, which meant I couldn't "land by the numbers" like I was taught. It forced me to develop a feel for landing instead of following the generic step-by-step process used for instruction.

Taking friends on SF Bay tours, and flying into San Jose, and Half Moon Bay has always been a common trip for me, so I got a lot of experience in that Class B. I have transited and landed within the LA and San Diego Bravo Class Bs a half dozen times, (Most of them VFR) and never really had any problems.

Personally, I prefer towered airfields when I travel. The only time I use non-towered fields is for practice, and when there just isn't a good towered airport available for my travel purposes.
 
...plus many CFIs do a gret job of putting he Fear of God into students about busting a Bravo. That coupled with the perception that there is a lot more mistakes that can lead to enforcement action probably add to the fears.
 
I remember doing some group $100 Hamburger runs and many of the pilots were VFR only and had a strong preference for untowered airports. They had trained at untowered airports and didn't work on the radio well, or at least felt uncomfortable on the radio.

I have done all of my training out of Class D airspace airports and all of the clubs/partnerships have been based at Class D airspace airports. The vast majority of my flights are IFR. I'm used to being on the radio.
 
Shawn said:
...plus many CFIs do a gret job of putting he Fear of God into students about busting a Bravo. That coupled with the perception that there is a lot more mistakes that can lead to enforcement action probably add to the fears.
Click to expand...

I've certainly seen that in action.

I've gone so far as to take the occasional new pilot through the SFO B to show how little there really is to it.

But, I do hear extra orifices being ripped over Class B busts on the radio almost every nice weekend. Occasionally (but not usually) with a phone number involved. I'll hazard a guess that most or all of those are people trying to avoid the B rather than transition it. It's truly easier to just get the clearance.
 
Mostly because they've only flown into a handful of towered airports and can't quite remember the procedure for getting in and out. We've all fumbled through it a time or two until we figured it out.

Let's not forget the government paranoia folks who avoid towered airports because they don't want the government "meddling in their business" or something to that effect. My experience with these guys is that they fall into the category above but just don't want to admit it.
 
midlifeflyer said:
What people?
Click to expand...
IMG_0618_zpszbldh47e.jpg
 
Class E is also controlled airspace, so I'm stil a bit confused what we're ranting about. Airspace, towers, radios, approach controllers?
 
I have to transit Boston and NY Bravos often. Boy it would suck to always have to go around or over... I'd say most light GA pilots fly through em a lot more than they head to the primary airport.

I assume anyone who is afraid of doing that is not an instrument pilot, since being in the Class B is just like being on an IFR clearance but you're visual. If you can't hold a heading and an altitude, then don't go in...

Just started as an Angel Flight pilot, looking forward to landing at Boston Logan, lots of missions pick up or drop off there... (all fees waived)


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Very few Delta airspace towers have radar service. No more 'safer' than uncontrolled airspace in certain VFR approach situations, false sense of security IMHO. There are advantages in Delta airspace on IFR flight plans. Does Bravo airspace allow VFR flights in these days...?:D
 
spiderweb said:
A lot of posts here asking questions and showing a fear of Class B.

James331 has it right.

For example, if you learned to drive where it never snows, or in a rural village, are really a competent pilot? And I'm not talking about needing a full course in formation flying, or aerobatics. Flying in ALL classes of airspace--even for VFR pilots--should be basic.
Click to expand...

So you want me to make a 225nm+ trip to Dallas during Private training in a 152/172 just to check-off the "I talked to Class B approach" box? I learned at a very busy Class D airport which normally had me contacting the Class C app/dep on every flight out. I much prefer non-towered airports and Class E/G airspace where I don't have to worry about catching my tail # on the radio all the time. Just cycle through the local airport CTAFs along my journey and go about my business. Do I get a bit of anxiety when calling up a busy approach frequency? Sure, but I don't avoid transitioning airspace because of it, I just make sure I have my request worked out in my head when I first call them up so that I don't tie up the radio while fumbling through my words. I have never been through Class B airspace when not in the back of the giant metal tubes, and I don't feel like that really affects being a competent pilot in the areas I fly. Just like most anything else in life, what is necessary in one part of the world/country isn't always necessary in another.
 
Because it's unfriendly toward VFR traffic. If you're IFR than it's a different story, I'd believe this to be the reason that most people have such a bias toward it. I've always preferred to be in controlled airspace rather than uncontrolled airspace, but that's just me.
 
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