Who's actually got their CFI-S?

DaleB

DaleB

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DaleB
Anyone? I know there were some discussions about it before, but I don't want to dredge up old threads. I'm thinking about starting study for my CFI-S this Spring, after I get a couple of other projects cleared off my plate. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's already done it, especially if you did so without having a CP/IR first.

What was your flight experience prior to starting?
Why did you decide to get your CFI-S certificate?
What study materials or course did you use?
Did you have any difficulty finding an examiner?

Thanks.
 
Hi Dale, no info but following your thread with interest. What would you hope to do with the certificate? I know the major downside is that any sport pilot training hours given by a CFI-S cannot be counted towards a private pilot license, which is really going to limit your potential clients.

I had considered it when I owned a Champ, because I could use it to give tailwheel lessons and sign-offs.

Did you have thoughts on how you might use it?
 
samiamPA said:
Hi Dale, no info but following your thread with interest. What would you hope to do with the certificate? I know the major downside is that any sport pilot training hours given by a CFI-S cannot be counted towards a private pilot license, which is really going to limit your potential clients.
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I believe that changed somewhat recently...
 
I'm working on my CFI-S now. I've taken both written tests, made a 96 on the FOI test and a 93 on the CFI test. I got Paul Hamilton's material/kit. I also got the Gleim package. I'm going to Carson City in April to study/fly with Paul's "school" and hopefully come home with my CFI-S. I'm a 1100 hr PPL since 1977. I live in Oklahoma City.

A couple of reasons I'm wanting to do this is 1) most instructors don't really want to instruct and it shows. They're in it strictly for the hours. 2) I'm doing it for fun, I'm 62 yrs old, I don't need the money and I certainly don't need the hours, or a career. My daughter is a corporate pilot, MEII and I don't know what else. I've come to learn most "regular" CFIs think the CFI-Ss are of a lower quality. My daughter thinks the sport pilot cert. is a waste of time, doesn't know why anyone would want it. Well, she's only 31 years old and hasn't figured out that not everyone wants to do 3rd class.
 
Why get it?

Why do anything aviation related if you don’t have to? Tailwheel, seaplane, and so on...

Why not?
 
DaleB said:
Why get it?

Why do anything aviation related if you don’t have to? Tailwheel, seaplane, and so on...

Why not?
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EXACTLY......I'm getting it for fun mostly. I'm thinking a semi-retirement job. It'll let me keep flying and buying avgas and stuff for my other airplanes. Just studying for the tests, I learned so much stuff (stuff I probably should've known) that's actually made me feel like, at least, a better pilot in general.
 
DaleB said:
Anyone? I know there were some discussions about it before, but I don't want to dredge up old threads. I'm thinking about starting study for my CFI-S this Spring, after I get a couple of other projects cleared off my plate. I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who's already done it, especially if you did so without having a CP/IR first.

What was your flight experience prior to starting?
Why did you decide to get your CFI-S certificate?
What study materials or course did you use?
Did you have any difficulty finding an examiner?

Thanks.
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Understand that the original provision was designed to legitimize ultralight instructors as quickly and cheaply as possible.

If you have access to light sport aircraft and folks interested in flying light sport aircraft, it might work out for you. Not a lot of jobs per se, but our local light sport flight school in the area here has Subpart K instructors teaching for them.
 
Not looking for a job. Even as a casual post-retirement gig I suspect it would be a money losing proposition. I’d just be able to teach any family members who want to get a ticket, and give one of my co-owners his flight review a few times until we’re both too old to fly. Plus, I’m bored stiff with just flying around the same places, seeing the same stuff, and want something new to do. And apparently I’d be joining a very, very small club.
 
I plan on doing it myself in a few years. Same thing, as a part time retirement gig, flight reviews and tailwheel checkouts if not primary students. Why not full CFI, because I have no desire to get my commercial and instrument, that kind of flying doesn't interest me. OTOH, I helped check out a guy in a Quicksilver recently because the local CFI had no recent time in one, and I really enjoyed teaching him, even though flying the Quick got old after awhile.

The local FBO has a J-3 and two too-busy SP CFIs.

Also it's likely that the LSA limits will be going up in the next few years, so the list of eligible aircraft will likely increase.
 
I considered it a few years ago and realized that with the small demand it would be difficult to make a living at it and I had a quite demanding corporate position at the time. But I'm looking at retirement soon and I'm again taking it into consideration.

Part of the reason is that I have a few friends that are seeking Light Sport instruction and it's been hard to find. However there is a school that's about an 1-1/2 hours away and they are reportedly quite busy with training. They have recently purchased a second plane, a flight simulator, and now have about 6 instructors on staff. They obviously are teaching more than just Light Sport but I understand that Sport has been a large part of their recent business.

I wouldn't be looking to make money at it but I sure ain't got money to lose doing it ...
 
You guys are echoing EVERY reason I'm doing it. I've been "teaching" a young lady (21) in the 150 and the Rans S6, and the aha moments are so fun. She's in college and doesn't really have the time to aggressively pursue her PPL, but does have time to occasionally fly and learn something. She's been enthralled with the airplane ever since I took her her first airplane ride 5 years ago. She made a vow then to herself that she was going to get her pilots license one day. If I knew how to post pictures on here I would, the looks on her face in the airplane are priceless. lol
 
I think that an initial CFI (Sport or otherwise) involves far more self-study and solo maneuvers practice than expense with an instructor, so if you’ve got the inclination, go for it.

if word gets out that there’s a good instructor teaching at the Sport level, you might find a student base large enough to do what you want.

depending on the aircraft available, flight reviews and checkouts for pilots with any certificate level are certainly an option.
 
If people find out you have it, I think you'll have pretty full plate. I've already had people calling for instruction because they heard that I was getting the rating.
 
I am also thinking about pursuing this rating as well, but I'm quite a long way away from it. I am still a student pilot working towards my Sport Pilot certificate (due to inability to get medical) and was wondering what I could do to continue to push my learning and alway become a little better. I think is the option to always be learning to become better, understanding the dynamics better, and also becoming a safer pilot because of it. Either way, this is my only option to becoming an instructor and hope to enjoy all the ups and downs it will bring.

For me personally, I always need an end goal, something to pursue, to push myself to become better and to continue my learning. Once I master or reach the peak, I tend to get bored and move onto other things.

I look forward to many years involved in aviation whether its working on my plane learning systems, building my next plane, honing my skills, or being able to pass on my knowledge to others with the same passion as I have.
 
Marshall Alexander said:
I'm working on my CFI-S now. I've taken both written tests, made a 96 on the FOI test and a 93 on the CFI test. I got Paul Hamilton's material/kit. I also got the Gleim package. I'm going to Carson City in April to study/fly with Paul's "school" and hopefully come home with my CFI-S. I'm a 1100 hr PPL since 1977. I live in Oklahoma City.

A couple of reasons I'm wanting to do this is 1) most instructors don't really want to instruct and it shows. They're in it strictly for the hours. 2) I'm doing it for fun, I'm 62 yrs old, I don't need the money and I certainly don't need the hours, or a career. My daughter is a corporate pilot, MEII and I don't know what else. I've come to learn most "regular" CFIs think the CFI-Ss are of a lower quality. My daughter thinks the sport pilot cert. is a waste of time, doesn't know why anyone would want it. Well, she's only 31 years old and hasn't figured out that not everyone wants to do 3rd class.
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Sport CFIs lower quality?

It is tough to make the argument that less experience and training equals the same quality.
 
Someone who has been flying for 30 years and now wants to pass along what they learned is not going to provide the same quality instruction as a 20 something time builder.

Either you are headed for the airlines, or you're just wasting av-gas.
 
Clip4 said:
Sport CFIs lower quality?

It is tough to make the argument that less experience and training equals the same quality.
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But if you don’t do it the same way I did it, you didn’t properly pay your dues, and you can’t be nearly as good as me.:rolleyes:
 
Clip4 said:
It is tough to make the argument that less experience and training equals the same quality.
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One of the local SP-CFIs instructs in the J-3 that his Dad owned, that he's been flying since he was a kid (he's around 60 now). I feel safe in saying he'll be a better quality instructor for people who want to do that kind of flying than the puppy mill CFIs passing through the FBO on their way to the airlines.

I suspect (I have no data) that minimum requirements aside, most airplane SP-CFIs have significantly more experience than the average kid with a fresh Commercial/Instrument/CFI. At least that's true of the ones I know of. The powered parachute and weightshift world is different, but that's a different world.

Somebody like me, as a typical example (not yet a SP-CFI)... just under 1000 hours, almost all in old taildraggers and ultralights. Compared with a 250 hour kid who's hardly flown anything other than a PA-28, all those hours the instructor spent studying instrument procedures and complex aircraft systems mean nothing in this context, who's gonna do a better job teaching a guy who just wants to fly a Taylorcraft or a Champ at an uncontrolled airport?
 
Dana said:
Somebody like me, as a typical example (not yet a SP-CFI)... just under 1000 hours, almost all in old taildraggers and ultralights. Compared with a 250 hour kid who's hardly flown anything other than a PA-28, all those hours the instructor spent studying instrument procedures and complex aircraft systems mean nothing in this context, who's gonna do a better job teaching a guy who just wants to fly a Taylorcraft or a Champ at an uncontrolled airport?
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Or teach anything other than a PA-28, for that matter.
 
Dana said:
One of the local SP-CFIs instructs in the J-3 that his Dad owned, that he's been flying since he was a kid (he's around 60 now). I feel safe in saying he'll be a better quality instructor for people who want to do that kind of flying than the puppy mill CFIs passing through the FBO on their way to the airlines.

I suspect (I have no data) that minimum requirements aside, most airplane SP-CFIs have significantly more experience than the average kid with a fresh Commercial/Instrument/CFI. At least that's true of the ones I know of. The powered parachute and weightshift world is different, but that's a different world.

Somebody like me, as a typical example (not yet a SP-CFI)... just under 1000 hours, almost all in old taildraggers and ultralights. Compared with a 250 hour kid who's hardly flown anything other than a PA-28, all those hours the instructor spent studying instrument procedures and complex aircraft systems mean nothing in this context, who's gonna do a better job teaching a guy who just wants to fly a Taylorcraft or a Champ at an uncontrolled airport?
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The man you mention who has been flying all his life, he doesn't have a light sport certificate teaching light sport. He has at least private and has a lot of experience. That's very different than light sport pilot / light sport CFI teaching LS.

You may suspect whatever you like, but put in an applications at some flight schools and see how many bites you get. A LS CFI has very few employment options and teaching out of his own aircraft is at best an infrequent hobby.
 
Clip4 said:
The man you mention who has been flying all his life, he doesn't have a light sport certificate teaching light sport. He has at least private and has a lot of experience. That's very different than light sport pilot / light sport CFI teaching LS.

You may suspect whatever you like, but put in an applications at some flight schools and see how many bites you get. A LS CFI has very few employment options and teaching out of his own aircraft is at best an infrequent hobby.
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So? You're right, I have a private, I've been flying for 45 years, but I'll never have a comm/instrument/CFI, you're missing the point... I want to get a SP-CFI certificate. Do you think another 200 hours of flying instrument approaches in a complex aircraft to get a "full" CFI would make me more qualified to teach somebody fly a Piper Cub off a grass strip? I'm not looking for a flying career, just something to do when I retire in a few years, pass on some of what I've learned, and maybe offset the cost of my flying habit a little. I wouldn't be "putting in applications at flight schools", but there'd probably be a part time place for me at the local FBO, where they already know me.
 
Interesting debate that this thread has devolved into. I think that there is some legitimacy to being concerned about less training. At a bare minimum, a CFI-S can have 150 hours vs the 300 or so for a regular CFI. Additionally, there is definitely some value in going through the training / checkride process more times that forces you to learn and refine your skills. Even if instrument procedures are not relevant to the SP, there is more value in learning than flying around the same old patch for 300 hours.

That said, I think the quality of teaching for CFI-S is likely to be excellent. Of course there will be exceptions, but you are more likely to get poeple passionate about teaching and not just building hours. Another big point that I think a lot of people miss - LSA's are actually harder to land in a lot of ways than larger airplanes. A Cherokee can be pretty much plopped down on the runway, but the very light stick forces of newer LSA's require much better fundamentals with positive aircraft control. And of course tailwheels take that to the next level.

TL:DR; While I understand the concern regarding lower barriers of entry for the CFI-S, I think that most of these instructors have a lot to offer, and if someone is interested I say go for it.
 
Dana said:
So? You're right, I have a private, I've been flying for 45 years, but I'll never have a comm/instrument/CFI, you're missing the point... I want to get a SP-CFI certificate. Do you think another 200 hours of flying instrument approaches in a complex aircraft to get a "full" CFI would make me more qualified to teach somebody fly a Piper Cub off a grass strip? I'm not looking for a flying career, just something to do when I retire in a few years, pass on some of what I've learned, and maybe offset the cost of my flying habit a little. I wouldn't be "putting in applications at flight schools", but there'd probably be a part time place for me at the local FBO, where they already know me.
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Ditto everything you just said. Just because these kids have all the ratings, ABSOLUTELY does not make them better teachers, or pilots.
Some people are just old and crusty and don't want anything new. And the "regular/real" CFIs are ****ed because they think they're missing out on something.
 
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samiamPA said:
Even if instrument procedures are not relevant to the SP, there is more value in learning than flying around the same old patch for 300 hours.
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Which, in my observation, is at least as likely to happen with a professional-track instrument-rated CFI-A than someone who has been flying for pleasure for years.
 
Dana said:
So? You're right, I have a private, I've been flying for 45 years, but I'll never have a comm/instrument/CFI, you're missing the point... I want to get a SP-CFI certificate. Do you think another 200 hours of flying instrument approaches in a complex aircraft to get a "full" CFI would make me more qualified to teach somebody fly a Piper Cub off a grass strip? I'm not looking for a flying career, just something to do when I retire in a few years, pass on some of what I've learned, and maybe offset the cost of my flying habit a little. I wouldn't be "putting in applications at flight schools", but there'd probably be a part time place for me at the local FBO, where they already know me.
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If all you want to be qualified do is teach how to fly simple Cubs off grass, I suppose you are qualified to do that. But please don't imply you have the same qualifications as a full CFI with similar flight experience because you aren't even close.

Bite the bullet and become a full CFI instead of CFI lite. You will happy you did.
 
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Clip4 said:
If all you want to be qualified do is teach how to fly simple Cubs off grass, I suppose you are qualified to do that. But please don't imply you have the same qualifications as a full CFI with similar flight experience because you aren't even close.

Bite the bullet and become a full CFI instead of CFI lite. You will happy you did.
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Wow. Really?
 
I guess I should have known better than to ask the question here...
 
Are you guys going for distance, or accuracy? Just curious.
 
Clip4 said:
If all you want to be qualified do is teach how to fly simple Cubs off grass, I suppose you are qualified to do that. But please don't imply you have the same qualifications as a full CFI with similar flight experience because you aren't even close.

Bite the bullet and become a full CFI instead of CFI lite. You will happy you did.
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Think however you like. But I've had to take the airplane away from more than one of the 250 hr. kid instructors on final because they didn't know anything about flying by the seat of their pants. So go ahead and believe what you want. I'll take a 40 years experience over 250 hours of book learning any day. Further more, take the ipad and smart phone away from the kid and they wouldn't even be able to navigate across the street!
I scared the hell out of one instructor because he didn't know how to slip a 172 on final. He was "checking me out" in a rental for the FBO, before I could rent from them.
 
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Marshall Alexander said:
Think however you like. But I've had to take the airplane away from more than one of the 250 hr. kid instructors on final because they didn't know anything about flying by the seat of their pants. So go ahead and believe what you want. I'll take a 40 years experience over 250 hours of book learning any day. Further more, take the ipad and smart phone away from the kid and they wouldn't even be able to navigate across the street!
I scared the hell out of one instructor because he didn't know how to slip a 172 on final. He was "checking me out" in a rental for the FBO, before I could rent from them.[/QUOTE
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Since you want to compare CFIs with minimum qualifications, I am certain a 250 hour CFI is better than a 150 hour LS CFI. Most the young CFIs I meet coming out of the puppy mills also have a commercial multi and the instrument CFI pushing their hours up to 350 or so. With those additional ratings also is more ground training.

As with any CFI, the more experience and training the better. Ideally any new CFI should have >750 hours.

I don’t profess to know the hiring practices of every flight school across the US, but the few schools I am aware of that offer a LS aircraft are only employing full CFIs. Maybe that is a product of so few LS CFIs or no desire to employ them.
 
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Clip4 said:
If all you want to be qualified do is teach how to fly simple Cubs off grass, I suppose you are qualified to do that.
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To be fair, the only thing at least one of my CFIs was qualified to teach was how to fly a Cherokee off pavement. Everything else I had to learn on my own. At all of 20 years old and with the ink not yet quite dry on his CFI certificate, I don't know what he was "qualified" to teach.
Clip4 said:
Since you want to compare CFIs with minimum qualifications, I am certain a 250 hour CFI is better than a 150 hour LS CFI. Most the young CFIs I meet coming out of the puppy mills also have a commercial multi and the instrument CFI pushing their hours up to 350 or so. With those additional ratings also is more ground training.

As with any CFI, the more experience and training the better. Ideally any new CFI should have >750 hours.

I don’t profess to know the hiring practices of every flight school across the US, but the few schools I am aware of that offer a LS aircraft do only employ regular CFIs - No LS CFIs.
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Ideally, a CFI should be every bit as good a pilot as Bob Hoover, and have an advanced teaching degree. Since we can't all have Bob Hoover with a doctorate in education, we settle for what's realistic. Flight schools don't hire Sport Pilot CFIs mostly because so few exist. I haven't actually met or talked to one... ever. I'm sure there are a few, but they are pretty rare. Any kid coming out of a university flight program or puppy mill has a CFI ticket, though. You can't swing a dead cat without beaning a CFI, and they're desperate enough for hours that they work dirt cheap.

Plus... I just don't care. There's no shortage of people who scoff at, well, basically anyone with fewer hours in the log book and/or certificates in their wallet.
 
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