Tom-D
Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
On FB where this came from, Maggie says the 150 horse, SO I would suppose the 0-300
For Sale Who wants a Swift ?
- Thread starter Tom-D
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Fearless Tower
Touchdown! Greaser!
I know two excellent tailwheel CFIs who both own Swifts. One in Tennessee and the other here in Virginia/North Carolina. They could do it, but getting them to devote the time to do primary training would be the challenge.
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Tom-D
Taxi to Parking
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Tom-D
And dumb.
dell30rb
Final Approach
I am working hard to earn my CFI rating in the next few weeks. I plan on offering swift transition training.. honestly one of the main reasons I want to become a CFI. The Swift community needs younger CFI's.
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mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yours? That plane sure is purty, like the paint.
dell30rb
Final Approach
Its owned by a friend but we have a sort of partnership going on for the last 3-4 years.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Keep in mind that the Swift is also the "most modified airplane" according to many. While it came from the factory with an 85hp (GC-1A) or 125hp (GC-1B) engine, there are STCs to fit them with engines of 145, 150, 160, 180, 200, 210, and 220 hp. The 145 is probably the most popular and has been called the sweet spot for the plane, but the 210 "Super Swift" is quite the rocket ship and would be a lot of fun - I've seen questions about them on the Swift mailing list like "How do I get the gear retracted before blowing through Vlo?" and such.
As for other mods, there are a few different STCs to swap the yokes for sticks, reconfigure the cockpit windows/doors by either adding roof windows or a full glass canopy, various additional fuel tanks, "P-51" (longer) gear doors, closing up the wings (which otherwise have slots through them near the leading edge in front of the ailerons), moving the throttle to the left-hand side so you can fly one with the stick in your right hand and throttle in left... There's just a ton of mods, and no two Swifts are alike.
Swifts are probably the best-supported aircraft there is whose original manufacturer has been out of business for over 70 years! The Swift Museum Foundation has purchased the type certificate and also many of the STCs and they keep a collection of parts and I believe even manufacture some new ones.
The type club web site is here: http://saginawwings.com
And if you want to see some more listings to get a feel for how different they can be, check here: http://saginawwings.com/swift-market-place/swift-market-place.htm (OP, I would suggest that you post the plane for sale there as well, it's free.)
Fundamentals of math?
Max gross weight: 1975
-Empty Weight: 1370
-49 gallons fuel: 294
= full fuel payload: 311 pounds. Not "close to 1000" in my book.
Also, the MGW of 1975 is with a gross weight increase STC. Original MGW is 1570 (GC-1A) or 1710 (GC-1B). I think the numbers above are for a "super Swift" since it says 210hp.
Since I am not a pilot I had a misunderstanding of how to calculate the available weight. I saw 49 gallons of fuel at 6.4 lb = 313 total lbs. I see an empty weight of 1370 lbs. 1370 - 313 = 1057 available weight left.
I see that I should have taken the max gross weight and subtracted the empty weight 1975 - 1370 = 605 available weight. subtract the fuel 605 - 313 = 292 available lbs weight.
My fundamentals of math is fine.
I see that I should have taken the max gross weight and subtracted the empty weight 1975 - 1370 = 605 available weight. subtract the fuel 605 - 313 = 292 available lbs weight.
My fundamentals of math is fine.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yep, there ya go! The fundamentals of math thing was a joke, hence the
after it.FWIW, there's often more weight available than that. I'm pretty sure they're using Super Swift numbers where they say GC-1B since they say 210 hp - the GC-1B was 125hp from the factory, and didn't have anywhere near 49 gallons available. Lighter engine, less fuel, probably somewhat more payload even with the difference in allowable gross weights. Unfortunately, none of the ones for sale right now have empty weights in the ads so it's hard to tell how far off that 1370 is.
N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
I owned a Swift for a few years until two years ago when I sold it. It is hard to say for sure not knowing the particulars, but a relatively stock Swift isn’t near $33,000. It is very optimistic for a plane out of annual. Ten years ago one like this was selling for $40K+. Back then 210hp engined, CS prop, sticks and canopy conversion and decent IFR suite was $150K+. Most Swift’s are worth 50-60% now. I bought in 2007 and sold in 2015. The market is soft so it is a buyers market.
I have in the neighborhood of 350 hours in a Swift and 1500+ in tailwheel. Swifts are not difficult to fly. They aren’t squirrelly. Many folks have taken primary instruction in them back in the day. They do have a few quirks which have caused many high time tailwheel types to run them off in the weeds...and worse. More accident occur on takeoff than landing. In a left crosswind, they can quickly run out of rudder. You have to use some right brake to keep it straight until sufficient speed is obtained. Forcing the tail up early and slow will send you off towards the left side of the runway. It is best to keep the tailwheel firmly on the ground until 45-50 mph. Oh yeah, tailwheel steering was an option on most Swifts. It helps in keeping one straight on takeoff, but many don’t have it to differential braking is the norm for taxiing.
Stalls are abrupt and will typically drop a wing, but has no real tendency to spin if you keep the ball centered. Because of poor spin recovery characteristics, The are placarded with INTENTIONAL SPINS PROHIBITED. The good thing is they buffet a great deal well before the stall so there is plenty of warning beforehand. I’ve done a bunch of steep turn stalls, clean and dirty. It is quick but nothing terrible. Even slow and pulling hard in a steep turn, it bucks a great deal before breaking and the nose falls and the wing drops without spinning.
Most folks don’t three point because it is easy to balloon up and drop it in...hard. However, like most planes, it can and is done though. I likely three pointed mine as much or more than wheelies. It takes practice and staying current to do it well.
With an original C-125, they aren’t particularly fast. Their takeoff and climb rate are leisurely. Because I was based on a 3000’ grass strip with big trees on north end and smaller trees on south end and 100 degree high humidity days were frequent in summers, I kept a climb prop and mine had 145hp O-300 STC. I would only carry most passengers on cooler days or with 1/2 gas. Cruise at 2500rpm was only about 125mph. With a cruise prop, you might see 135-140mph. You will need long runways.
All that said, I loved flying it. The controls were light and it was very responsive. It was capable of basic gentleman acro...and I rolled and looped it quite a bit. It needs a pretty good head of steam for a loop and lacked inverted fuel/oil so no sustained inverted done. It always brought out a crowd anywhere it went with it.
You buy a Swift because you want a Swift because of what it is. Consequently, there is a very narrow segment of the pilot population to whom they appeal, and it is getting smaller by the day. So, when demand decreases and supply remains fairly constant (or increases as many longtime owners are aging out) the prices go soft. You can buy good examples with basic VFR radios for sub $30K. Unless this one has great avionics, a big engine 180+hp it likely isn’t going to fetch the listed price. I hope it does for the sellers sake.
I have many fond memories of my Swift. I’m lucky it stayed local. If I want, I’m sure I could fly it again. The ATP I sold it to adapted to it quickly with only a couple hundred hours t/w time, mostly towing gliders.
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I have in the neighborhood of 350 hours in a Swift and 1500+ in tailwheel. Swifts are not difficult to fly. They aren’t squirrelly. Many folks have taken primary instruction in them back in the day. They do have a few quirks which have caused many high time tailwheel types to run them off in the weeds...and worse. More accident occur on takeoff than landing. In a left crosswind, they can quickly run out of rudder. You have to use some right brake to keep it straight until sufficient speed is obtained. Forcing the tail up early and slow will send you off towards the left side of the runway. It is best to keep the tailwheel firmly on the ground until 45-50 mph. Oh yeah, tailwheel steering was an option on most Swifts. It helps in keeping one straight on takeoff, but many don’t have it to differential braking is the norm for taxiing.
Stalls are abrupt and will typically drop a wing, but has no real tendency to spin if you keep the ball centered. Because of poor spin recovery characteristics, The are placarded with INTENTIONAL SPINS PROHIBITED. The good thing is they buffet a great deal well before the stall so there is plenty of warning beforehand. I’ve done a bunch of steep turn stalls, clean and dirty. It is quick but nothing terrible. Even slow and pulling hard in a steep turn, it bucks a great deal before breaking and the nose falls and the wing drops without spinning.
Most folks don’t three point because it is easy to balloon up and drop it in...hard. However, like most planes, it can and is done though. I likely three pointed mine as much or more than wheelies. It takes practice and staying current to do it well.
With an original C-125, they aren’t particularly fast. Their takeoff and climb rate are leisurely. Because I was based on a 3000’ grass strip with big trees on north end and smaller trees on south end and 100 degree high humidity days were frequent in summers, I kept a climb prop and mine had 145hp O-300 STC. I would only carry most passengers on cooler days or with 1/2 gas. Cruise at 2500rpm was only about 125mph. With a cruise prop, you might see 135-140mph. You will need long runways.
All that said, I loved flying it. The controls were light and it was very responsive. It was capable of basic gentleman acro...and I rolled and looped it quite a bit. It needs a pretty good head of steam for a loop and lacked inverted fuel/oil so no sustained inverted done. It always brought out a crowd anywhere it went with it.
You buy a Swift because you want a Swift because of what it is. Consequently, there is a very narrow segment of the pilot population to whom they appeal, and it is getting smaller by the day. So, when demand decreases and supply remains fairly constant (or increases as many longtime owners are aging out) the prices go soft. You can buy good examples with basic VFR radios for sub $30K. Unless this one has great avionics, a big engine 180+hp it likely isn’t going to fetch the listed price. I hope it does for the sellers sake.
I have many fond memories of my Swift. I’m lucky it stayed local. If I want, I’m sure I could fly it again. The ATP I sold it to adapted to it quickly with only a couple hundred hours t/w time, mostly towing gliders.
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flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Here's a particularly nice example of a Swift, especially if you like gadgets like I do:
Ken Ibold
Final Approach
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N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
Between Globe and Temco, there were approximately 1500 Swifts built. The Swift Museum/Foundation estimates there are still about 700 in existence and around 50-60% of those are flyable. Back when they were cheap and 40s vintage airplanes were abundant, many damaged Swifts were written off in what by today's restoration standards would have been repairable damage.
FredFenster
Pre-takeoff checklist
For a ballpark reference.. Mine is mostly stock other than being an O-300. 1246 empty, 464 useful load.
N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
Mine was 1237 empty with O-300. Still had original gross of 1710 473# useful...which with full fuel leaves 305 for people/bags.
gkainz
Final Approach
If Taylorcraft modified a Swift, would you get a pop singer?
N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
More likely an underpowered singer...
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I saw that on Barnstormers too. I'm sad that they're giving up on it (or, at least, they're making the design and rights available for a song). Do you have any idea why they're not pursuing it any more? Not enough pilots who have all three endorsements you need to fly it? Cabin not big enough for modern (overweight) Americans? FAA being a pain in the ass?
If I had enough money to blow $300K on a fun plane (or $500K for a plane and the beginnings of a business) I'd be all over it, if they'd share all the details. I'd be happy to run it for someone else who wants to invest in such a thing too!
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N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
The Swift Fury come Fury has been bouncing around for decades. When I first got involved in Swifts in 1986, they were taking deposits for SwiftFury. Fast forward 32 years and not the first airplane has ever been produced. The currently Fury prototype N217LP is still registered as a 1946 Globe Swift GC-1B under the original TCDS from which it was built. I'm not sure they are selling for a song so much as unloading an albatross.
From Flight International Magazine September 1989...when LoPresti was working for Piper trying to produce the Swift.
From Flight International Magazine September 2000...when LoPresti was obtain permission from Swift Foundation to produce under original Type Certificate in return for making available repair parts for the existing Swift fleet.
From Flight International Magazine September 1989...when LoPresti was working for Piper trying to produce the Swift.
From Flight International Magazine September 2000...when LoPresti was obtain permission from Swift Foundation to produce under original Type Certificate in return for making available repair parts for the existing Swift fleet.
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Stephanie B
Pre-takeoff checklist
I saw the prototype at Sun & Fun in the early `90s. The LoPresti Fury was the flying equivalent of the Moeller SkyCar, or the coming of the Messiah. Any day now...
Just under a half-million for the rights to an airplane that has been under development for thirty years? The guys who were trained en masse to fly taildraggers were in their sixties back then, just retired and many had the cash to indulge themselves. They're mostly gone. The Boomers were trained in Cessna 150s.
It's sad that they were never able to make a go of it, but a half-million? While the airplane itself might sell for something (not a quarter-mil), the rights to produce it would be hard to sell for a kilobuck.
Just under a half-million for the rights to an airplane that has been under development for thirty years? The guys who were trained en masse to fly taildraggers were in their sixties back then, just retired and many had the cash to indulge themselves. They're mostly gone. The Boomers were trained in Cessna 150s.
It's sad that they were never able to make a go of it, but a half-million? While the airplane itself might sell for something (not a quarter-mil), the rights to produce it would be hard to sell for a kilobuck.
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flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Interesting. I never heard of it until they had Corkey Fornof flying it around the airshow circuit a few years ago.
Ken Ibold
Final Approach
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I remember hanging with Roy when he first concocted the idea. His passion and energy for it was amazing. I remember thinking at the time that a hundred grand for an airplane was ridiculous, but of course it wasn't.
Unfortunately, it was such poor timing. GA production was, IIRC, at its modern low point. He partnered with Piper and then faced a huge legal battle over the rights when Piper went bankrupt (that time). Then there was the Swift licensing issue, which is one of the reasons the SwiftFury became the Fury. There were a number of efforts to put it into production during the post-Piper years. I was on LoPresti's Business Advisory Board when they were trying to get some economic development incentives to build a factory. Came really close to making deals in two places. Then when Roy got sick it got stuck in the corner of a hangar while the kids tried to keep the company going. Some top management issues happened, and the guys decided to focus on smaller ticket items like the aerodynamic mods and the lighting upgrades.
N3368K
Cleared for Takeoff
There is no doubt the SwiftFury/Fury was a real hot rod. I got to see Corky fly it a few times and talked to him about it a couple of time. Problem is, it doesn't out perform a 210hp IO-360 engined Swift with all the cool mods by a big enough margin to justify the additional $100K+ it cost. Not to mention, they are ready do go now...with demand steadily declining.