Who on the Senate side are on our side?

Here's one from Alaska...
http://murkowski.senate.gov/public/...ecord_id=afac14c8-e354-f96b-6ea9-9d232625a92c

A few more:
http://roberts.senate.gov/public/in...ecord_id=148f8f4f-802a-23ad-4516-cef9d17f7314
WASHINGTON – U.S. Senators Sam Brownback (R-KS) and Pat Roberts (R-KS) and Representative Todd Tiahrt (R-KS) are calling on the Department of Homeland Security to work closely with the general aviation industry before imposing new regulations on the industry.
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On the flip side of senate idiocy on LASP:
Wisconsin Senator Kohl calls GA a 'ticking time bomb' (AOPA Link)

U.S. Senator Herb Kohl today called general aviation a "ticking time bomb." During a Senate Transportation Appropriation subcommittee hearing, the Democrat from Wisconsin (ironically, the home of the world's largest general aviation event at Oshkosh) said that security is minimal or nonexistent at some GA airports, and "until we have a handle on general aviation security, we cannot assure the public that aviation security is under control."
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Oshkosh attendees, beware of what this fruitcake wants to do.

Here are Rush Limbaugh's comments. He looks at it from a practical perspective as someone who frequently uses the size aircraft this is based but recognizes in the end, all aircraft will be affected. It's very much worth reading.

New Rules Target Private Aviation(Free section)

There are new rules that are proposed by the transportation safety administration, part of homeland security, that would treat private business aviation identically to commercial aviation. One of the results of this could be that if the rules are adopted treating private aviation the same as commercial aviation, Tiger Woods, nor any other professional golfer, nor any or golfer could carry their golf clubs on their airplane because the baggage compartment in the private jet is accessible from the passenger cabin and the clubs could theoretically be used as weapons even though they never have been. So Tiger Woods, he's gotta deal with NetJets. He flies around on G4s and G550s wherever he goes. If this rule is adopted down the road, he won't be able to take his golf clubs. Certain destinations he'll be required to take an air marshal. Every one of his passengers will have to go through a background check. Their privacy will be lost. Air marshals will be required on certain routes based on destinations. Once you have submitted your passenger manifest, there will be no changes allowed 90 minutes before departure.

In commercial aviation it's very simple to understand. Hundreds of people get on airplanes and nobody knows who they are. In private aviation, pretty much everybody getting on an airplane is known, the crew knows them, the owner knows them, they don't get on unless they're known by somebody, unless it's a charter, and then of course you can understand restrictions, perhaps, on charters. But if they're owned and operated --- or in the case of Tiger Woods, he's gotta deal with NetJets, he's a quasi-owner/operator. Friday is the last day for public comment on this and I've talked to a lot of people who have called their senators in Georgia and in Florida and other places, and they say, "Sorry, this is national security, national security, national security." There is obviously no sympathy for this. Nobody's got any sympathy for anybody that flies around on a business jet these days. But it's just one more example of the encroaching loss of freedom and government control over everything. Wall Street now is totally, totally dependent on central planners and what they say. <snipped>
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Staggering:

I agree 100% with Rush Limbaugh.

MOMMA I'M COMIN' HOME!!!!!!!!!!!
 
flyersfan31 said:
Staggering:

I agree 100% with Rush Limbaugh.

MOMMA I'M COMIN' HOME!!!!!!!!!!!
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Broken watch and all that. Boortz occasionally gets it right too :rofl:

As for the partisan aspect of it, there are those who squawk and those who actually get things done. But I am most concerned that Obama has not found the time to reel this in. Do I really have to remind everyone that these policies are a holdover from the last administration (though tacitly signed off on by a Congress.) For me it's tick, tick, tick...
 
alaskaflyer said:
Broken watch and all that. Boortz occasionally gets it right too :rofl:

As for the partisan aspect of it, there are those who squawk and those who actually get things done. But I am most concerned that Obama has not found the time to reel this in. Do I really have to remind everyone that these policies are a holdover from the last administration (though tacitly signed off on by a Congress.) For me it's tick, tick, tick...
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It's not going to happen. Expansion of the TSA means more government jobs, but more importantly, expansion of the government.

Better get use to it.
 
I heard a rumor that the TSA wants to move to RFIDs for each pilot to ensure that the correct pilot is matched with the correct plane and that a background check has been done. Could be done, but would require two-factor authentication (such as a password).

Can you say "cluster****"
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Nope. Just look around.
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I don't have to look much past 2001, when the party of personal responsibility and small government which was in possession of both the White House and Congress established, funded and empowered the DHS and TSA.

Now...the new administration and Congress can either cure this cluster, or not, but it will be their ball to drop after it was handed off to them.
 
alaskaflyer said:
I don't have to look much past 2001, when the party of personal responsibility and small government which was in possession of both the White House and Congress established, funded and empowered the DHS and TSA.

Now...the new administration and Congress can either cure this cluster, or not, but it will be their ball to drop after it was handed off to them.
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I agree. But in the new era of Even Bigger Government and "job creation" you can expect the new administration to use this for "job growth".
 
Nothing older than blame the previous guy.
 
Obama offered change. He was late. We already had change. It started with the creation of DHS. I thought part of the process was to bring agencies together for a more efficient government. Nothing of the kind has taken place.

In order for an international student to come to the US for flight training, they must do the following...

  1. Apply to the school for an I-20 for indicating acceptance at a school. The school prepares the I-20 through the Immigration & Customs Enforcement.
  2. Go to a US embassy (Department of State) with the I-20 in their home country to apply for an M-1 visa.
  3. Apply to the TSA for approval to receive flight training.
  4. No sooner than thirty days before training is scheduled, they travel to the US and present themselves at a port of entry.
  5. They will be interviewed by agents of the US Customs & Border Patrol.
  6. Their information will be verified with the US Customs & Immigration Service.
  7. Upon acceptance and verification their purpose for entry is legitimate, they are allowed to enter.
  8. Within three business days of entry, they must present themselves t the school.
Note how many agencies are involved here. Also, the TSA's flight taring investigation and approval is entirely separate from that of ICE, DOS and USCIS.

Yep, change has come...
 
KennyFlys said:
On the flip side of senate idiocy on LASP:
Wisconsin Senator Kohl calls GA a 'ticking time bomb' (AOPA Link)
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Everyone who lives in Wisconsin should write Senator Kohl and tell him that Private Vehicles--cars, SUVs, motorhomes--are a 'ticking time bomb' and that we aren't safe until all background checks are performed on all drivers and procedures are in place that require government approval before such a vehicle can travel on public roads.
 
KennyFlys said:
On the flip side of senate idiocy on LASP:
Wisconsin Senator Kohl calls GA a 'ticking time bomb' (AOPA Link)


Oshkosh attendees, beware of what this fruitcake wants to do.
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Gaaah, who let him out from under his rock? :mad3:

This isn't the first time he's publicly bashed GA. And it really ticks me off that I'll have to wait until 2012 to vote against him again. :mad2:

I'd be really interested to know if Kohl uses GA himself. I know that our other senator, Russ Feingold, uses GA both in campaigns and during his tours (he has kept one of his original campaign pledges, to hold public "listening sessions" in every one of Wisconsin's 72 counties every year). I really like Feingold, and I originally did vote for Kohl, but not recently. He's gone off the deep end.
 
kkoran said:
Everyone who lives in Wisconsin should write Senator Kohl and tell him that Private Vehicles--cars, SUVs, motorhomes--are a 'ticking time bomb' and that we aren't safe until all background checks are performed on all drivers and procedures are in place that require government approval before such a vehicle can travel on public roads.
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Oh, he'll be hearing from me. So will Feingold. (So will Obama.)

I expect ONE of the Senators to listen, and it ain't the one with a four-letter last name.
 
With all due respect, I could give a fat rat's about foreign students' problems. Weren't they the ones who caused this problem in the first place. It's the US airplane-airplane owning citizens I'm concerned about first. Let's get that little detail ironed out first, then we move on to the Jabberanians.


KennyFlys said:
Obama offered change. He was late. We already had change. It started with the creation of DHS. I thought part of the process was to bring agencies together for a more efficient government. Nothing of the kind has taken place.

In order for an international student to come to the US for flight training, they must do the following...

  1. Apply to the school for an I-20 for indicating acceptance at a school. The school prepares the I-20 through the Immigration & Customs Enforcement.
  2. Go to a US embassy (Department of State) with the I-20 in their home country to apply for an M-1 visa.
  3. Apply to the TSA for approval to receive flight training.
  4. No sooner than thirty days before training is scheduled, they travel to the US and present themselves at a port of entry.
  5. They will be interviewed by agents of the US Customs & Border Patrol.
  6. Their information will be verified with the US Customs & Immigration Service.
  7. Upon acceptance and verification their purpose for entry is legitimate, they are allowed to enter.
  8. Within three business days of entry, they must present themselves t the school.
Note how many agencies are involved here. Also, the TSA's flight taring investigation and approval is entirely separate from that of ICE, DOS and USCIS.

Yep, change has come...
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
With all due respect, I could give a fat rat's about foreign students' problems. Weren't they the ones who caused this problem in the first place. It's the US airplane-airplane owning citizens I'm concerned about first. Let's get that little detail ironed out first, then we move on to the Jabberanians.
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You're missing the point. I don't have a problem with the background check. They should have been in place before. It's the supposed simplicity that was claimed to be made by combining all these agencies under one shingle. That's far from the truth. On top of it, these agencies, TSA chief among them, are running wild with way too much power.

But, don't cut down allowing international students coming here. They provide some job security for flight instructors across the country.
 
Yet another example of how more government isn't change that will help at all.

(>-{
 
Bob Noel said:
Yet another example of how more government isn't change that will help at all.

(>-{
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I don't suppose it's crossed your mind that there's this little problem called the economy that's taking a lot of time and attention to solve. More people lost their job last month than there are pilots in the U.S.! So, to think the powers that be are going to jump to represent a group that's a small fraction of 1% of the population is, at best, unrealistic.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
So, to think the powers that be are going to jump to represent a group that's a small fraction of 1% of the population is, at best, unrealistic.


Trapper John
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As a result, we get steamrolled. Because it sure seems like for that small fraction of one percent, they are sure doing a lot do DESTROY US!!!
 
Greg Bockelman said:
As a result, we get steamrolled. Because it sure seems like for that small fraction of one percent, they are sure doing a lot do DESTROY US!!!
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One other thing. I also heard through the grapevine that the auto company CEOs that flew to DC in their private jets made a huge (negative) impression on both politicians and bureaucrats (who feel underpaid). The result: those three have done more to destroy GA than any TSA could ever do. There is little sympathy in the halls of Washington for GA as a result.
 
I have always questioned the underlying economics of educating other nations' pilots, especially those who are not good trade partners for the U. S. But our goofy trade policies since WW-II are for another forum, so that can't be discussed here.

Accordingly, I could care less about the flight schools if their business model is based on educating foreign pilots. If they want to fly in some other country, let them learn in some other country. Not only that, it would be fun to fly around north Texas again being able to understand the radio transmissions.

KennyFlys said:
You're missing the point. I don't have a problem with the background check. They should have been in place before. It's the supposed simplicity that was claimed to be made by combining all these agencies under one shingle. That's far from the truth. On top of it, these agencies, TSA chief among them, are running wild with way too much power.

But, don't cut down allowing international students coming here. They provide some job security for flight instructors across the country.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
I have always questioned the underlying economics of educating other nations' pilots, especially those who are not good trade partners for the U. S. But our goofy trade policies since WW-II are for another forum, so that can't be discussed here.

Accordingly, I could care less about the flight schools if their business model is based on educating foreign pilots. If they want to fly in some other country, let them learn in some other country. Not only that, it would be fun to fly around north Texas again being able to understand the radio transmissions.
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One of the few industries where the balance of trade is in our favor is education (including flight schools). That we have (still) not destroyed GA or made it so expensive like other countries helps us out.

There are really few flight schools that have the quantity of US citizens that want to learn to fly to support a regular program. Effectively, the foreign students keep schools in business. That, IMHO, is a good thing. Likewise, if those students end up on long-haul flights into the US, it enhances safety if they grew up in our system.

Just my humble opinion.
 
wsuffa said:
Likewise, if those students end up on long-haul flights into the US, it enhances safety if they grew up in our system.

Just my humble opinion.
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Either that or it decreases safety because they know the target coordinates and landmarks better.:smile: I do not and will not support any educational activities for people from countries who won't trade fairly with us.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Staggering:

I agree 100% with Rush Limbaugh.

MOMMA I'M COMIN' HOME!!!!!!!!!!!
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If Rush didn't own his own G5 he'd be all over the opponents of the new rules as being anti-American and pro-terrist.
 
mikea said:
If Rush didn't own his own G5 he'd be all over the opponents of the new rules as being anti-American and pro-terrist.
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But he does, so the point is irrelevant.
 
mikea said:
If Rush didn't own his own G5 he'd be all over the opponents of the new rules as being anti-American and pro-terrist.
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Last I knew it was a G-IV-SP, but who's picking nits?
 
wabower said:
Either that or it decreases safety because they know the target coordinates and landmarks better.:smile: I do not and will not support any educational activities for people from countries who won't trade fairly with us.
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Really, I was trying to ignore the xenophobic comments you made before, but this one's aviation-related and just silly. If you really think that, you better make sure that foreigners don't have driver's licenses, boat licenses, scuba-diving licenses, and so on from here, either. That aside, it is to your benefit if they are spending money here. As has been pointed out, we have a comparative advantage in flight training, and it's one of the few areas where we still have it. Encouraging it as much as possible is good for us economically.
 
I don't suppose it's crossed *your* mind that I might, just might, have been seeing the news, and reading the news, and hearing news about how the economy is doing?

btw - please don't take my comments out-of-context and extropolate all sorts of unwarranted unjustified conclusions.
 
Bob Noel said:
Yet another example of how more government isn't change that will help at all.

(>-{
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You're right of course. The government cannot do anything right and we should just get rid of it. Especially when they run all those things with our tax dollars that are pretty useless, like roads, police, fire, ATC, education, food safety, drug safety, defense, brought power to millions in the SE US, etc.

Bunch of useless jerks those government types are. :rolleyes:

And if you think private industry can do it better. Just look at what user fees and privatized ATC has done for Europe. The change we need is to get away from those old ideas that private, non-regulated, non-accountable industry can do everything. It cannot, there a places the government should be in charge.
 
smigaldi said:
You're right of course. The government cannot do anything right and we should just get rid of it.
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No, there ARE some things they do right. And well. Those things they should continue to do. Everything else they should get the hell out of and let those that know what they are doing handle it.

The change we need is to get away from those old ideas that private, non-regulated, non-accountable industry can do everything. [/QUOTE]

Using that rationale, we should turn EVERYTHING over to the government.

I don't want to live in that country.
 
It continues to amaze me how some people think opposition to increasing the
current size of our federal government is the same as getting rid of it
entirely. I really wish people didn't leap to the conclusion that it's all
or nothing.

Bob

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand
binary and those that don't.
 
KennyFlys said:
don't cut down allowing international students coming here. They provide some job security for flight instructors across the country.
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I agree. We complain about jobs being outsourced. Here's something that is bringing money to this country from overseas and we are complaining about that too.
 
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