Who let this guy solo?

Thanks for posting. It helps cure any desire I might have to move back to the PHX area.....
 
Back to Compass reading 101. “Let’s see, if I turn this wheel thingy this way, the needle thingy will move that way.....maybe. Or maybe that disc gizmo will move the other way.”

Cheers
 
That's a tough area to fly VFR in for somebody experienced but not used to the airspace.
 
PaulS said:
That's a tough area to fly VFR in for somebody experienced but not used to the airspace.
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i flew out of Falcon Field in Mesa (KFFZ) a few times. a much busier airspace than I was used to here at home (KARR).
 
Holy crap! :hairraise:

I assume Sioux call sign is assigned to school planes?
 
I feel bad for these guys, I really do.

The instructors are under pressure to pass these guys along. I had a student from former East Germany. He could speak and understand English fine, but had a hard time with American. Especially in West Virginia.
 
My first xc solo I couldn’t find the airport haha. I saw an airport but thought it was the wrong one as I only saw 2 runways but the actual airport has 3 runways. Eventually did with a change in ATC direction but I was super embarrassed.
 
Zeldman said:
I feel bad for these guys, I really do.

The instructors are under pressure to pass these guys along. I had a student from former East Germany. He could speak and understand English fine, but had a hard time with American. Especially in West Virginia.
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To be fair, what is spoken in some parts of WV is pretty far from American English.
 
Wow. It was clear this guy was waaay to nervous and rather than deal with it - ATC gets short and terse with him. That didn’t help situation. No point in lecturing him that he didn’t follow instructions and everyone had to move - he could have spent that airtime informing him what he needed to do. Whole thing is a mess.


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Tommar98 said:
Wow. It was clear this guy was waaay to nervous and rather than deal with it - ATC gets short and terse with him. That didn’t help situation. No point in lecturing him that he didn’t follow instructions and everyone had to move - he could have spent that airtime informing him what he needed to do. Whole thing is a mess.


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The controller had previously informed him what he needed to do, and the student didn't follow that. The controller was simply informing him what the consequence was, maybe hoping this time the student would help the controller help him.

Our flying club and flight training unit is based at a busy controlled airport. We have private turboprop and jet traffic mixing it up with trainers, tucked under the Class C of the nearby international airport. It is demanding on the students, but they get great experience dealing with that sort of environment.

This student was no where near ready to deal with this.
 
GRG55 said:
The controller had previously informed him what he needed to do, and the student didn't follow that. The controller was simply informing him what the consequence was, maybe hoping this time the student would help the controller help him.

Our flying club and flight training unit is based at a busy controlled airport. We have private turboprop and jet traffic mixing it up with trainers, tucked under the Class C of the nearby international airport. It is demanding on the students, but they get great experience dealing with that sort of environment.

This student was no where near ready to deal with this.
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I don’t disagree that he wasn’t ready. Don’t know how he was signed off for this...maybe he seemed ready before but he was panicky about what was happening as evidence by his first radio call. I know the controller told him what to do. But my first response when he told him to fly 300 and enter left downwind was that he was going to goof that up ...and he did. The reality is that it was clear that this student wasn’t ready and to make it safer for everyone I think the controller should have done more hand holding. I know that easy for me to say sitting here and he had a busy workload..but the reality is that the situation was made worse by expecting that this student would do what he was supposed to when it seemed obvious he wasn’t likely to.


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mandm said:
My first xc solo I couldn’t find the airport haha. I saw an airport but thought it was the wrong one as I only saw 2 runways but the actual airport has 3 runways. Eventually did with a change in ATC direction but I was super embarrassed.
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lol... I also didn't find the airport on my first XC solo flight. I had it on the 430 as a backup to pilotage, and could see on the GPS it was at 12 o'clock 4 miles but all I saw was a forest. I did a 360 to think about what I was going to do and decided to get closer. That's when I saw the hangars hiding behind the tall trees... it made for very close traffic downwind... :D
 
I've never been into Phoenix but this sure looks like a good case to combine some dual X/C time to a quiet airport to get that students solo in.

Slight divergence - Last summer I stopped at Mifflin Co PA (KRVL) for some cheap gas on the way home. There was a student on his first solo flight there. The instructor was on the ground delivering a constant stream of largely inane chatter to the student via handheld. I was kinda mystified about how that added to the experience of the solo. IMO take a student to a quiet airport so they don't have to hear that stuff.
 
I feel bad for this guy, he just did not know what to do.
 
Wow that was rough. Aside from other things, I always taught my students basic GPS functions like direct to and how to get into OBS mode to make an extended centerline.
 
PaulS said:
I feel bad for this guy, he just did not know what to do.
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I get it, but how can a guy be signed off to solo when they can't even follow simple ATC instructions. "Turn left, fly heading 300"
 
I notice this was Gateway (IWA). I think that's the same airport at which a tower controller, years ago, ordered a pilot to land there and find an instructor instead of continuing to her home base.
 
I get the people that ask who let him solo because he doesn't appear ready. But as a CFI I can tell you students will find new ways to surprise you as well. I had a student on his first solo, instead of staying in the pattern for 2 or 3 stop and goes as is my routine and syllabus for first solo, blast off and go for a sightseeing adventure while I'm on the ground trying to figure out where he was going. I had another student that was honestly one of my star pupils completely fall apart on a mock checkride to the point he probably couldn't remember his own name. Stress does weird things to people.
 
MacFlier said:
lol... I also didn't find the airport on my first XC solo flight. I had it on the 430 as a backup to pilotage, and could see on the GPS it was at 12 o'clock 4 miles but all I saw was a forest. I did a 360 to think about what I was going to do and decided to get closer. That's when I saw the hangars hiding behind the tall trees... it made for very close traffic downwind... :D
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Haha. I was using the 650, and I saw an airport a couple miles out. ATC said they couldn’t see me. Other traffic in the area said they couldn’t see me. I wasn’t asking if they could see me, they were just saying they couldn’t see me. Then I thought to myself this is the wrong airport so I compared the airport diagram and I could only see two runways on the ground and the airport of intended destination had 3 runways. Problem was one of the runways was concrete so I couldn’t see it (me being new and all) and my altitude was way too high so that’s why no one else could see me. So when I got close enough and saw the number on the runway then I felt more comfortable and confident this is the correct airport. Contacted ATC and extended a base turn and got set up for a landing. Had lunch and was basically shaking the whole time due to my mistake and couldn’t eat but less than a quarter of my lunch. Got back and shared my embarrassing story.
 
In fairness, rewind a bit to your days as a student pilot doing local solo flights. We don't know how many times this student flew solo, or in what conditions. But let's just assume it was before the solo cross-country. He was told to fly heading 300 and make left downwind for runway 30L, and there were several other planes in the pattern. Did you have enough experience to judge whether you had room to turn right from 300 to enter the downwind without getting too close to the runway or other traffic? Did you have enough experience talking to ATC to remain entirely unflustered in the situation of not knowing quite what they expected for a pattern entry?

This was a cringefest, to be sure, but I have over 500 hours PIC time and, if I were in busy airspace and told to fly heading 300 to enter left downwind for runway 30L, I would have to ask Tower which way they wanted me to turn. (I hope that) I would just do a better job of asking.
 
iamtheari said:
In fairness, rewind a bit to your days as a student pilot doing local solo flights. We don't know how many times this student flew solo, or in what conditions. But let's just assume it was before the solo cross-country. He was told to fly heading 300 and make left downwind for runway 30L, and there were several other planes in the pattern. Did you have enough experience to judge whether you had room to turn right from 300 to enter the downwind without getting too close to the runway or other traffic? Did you have enough experience talking to ATC to remain entirely unflustered in the situation of not knowing quite what they expected for a pattern entry?

This was a cringefest, to be sure, but I have over 500 hours PIC time and, if I were in busy airspace and told to fly heading 300 to enter left downwind for runway 30L, I would have to ask Tower which way they wanted me to turn. (I hope that) I would just do a better job of asking.
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I had enough experience to not tie up the frequency asking "if you see meeee" multiple times. The layers of failed fundamental knowledge in that question alone is hideous.

Then after using a minute of airtime negotiating out the heading suggestion, he proceeds to... not do it?! :eek: that controller is one seriously chill dude.

I hope there's either a really shocked/dismayed UND instructor there, or a really fired UND instructor there.
 
schmookeeg said:
I had enough experience to not tie up the frequency asking "if you see meeee" multiple times. The layers of failed fundamental knowledge in that question alone is hideous.

Then after using a minute of airtime negotiating out the heading suggestion, he proceeds to... not do it?! :eek: that controller is one seriously chill dude.

I hope there's either a really shocked/dismayed UND instructor there, or a really fired UND instructor there.
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I know a lot of experienced pilots that get flustered operating in a controlled environment. It isn't limited to students. Something about the voice of God (aka ATC) that gets people cranked up.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I know a lot of experienced pilots that get flustered operating in a controlled environment. It isn't limited to students. Something about the voice of God (aka ATC) that gets people cranked up.
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Same goes the other way...there are a lot of experienced pilots who get flustered at an uncontrolled field. Something about having to think for themselves. ;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
Same goes the other way...there are a lot of experienced pilots who get flustered at an uncontrolled field. Something about having to think for themselves. ;)
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Seen that too! I'm one of the guys that learned at a non-towered airport, and 80% of my flying is at non-towered airports. But you do hear those guys coming in that aren't sure what to say instead of just repeating whatever tower tells them to do.
 
Bill said:
Holy crap! :hairraise:

I assume Sioux call sign is assigned to school planes?
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Yes, and the "i" and "o" are silent, thus the school rating as well:D

On another note: this student was not ready for solo. Southwest USA is the EASIEST as far as navigation and clear-and-a-million ... difficult to get lost with the mountains as landmarks. Now flying OVER them later and meeting TB is another matter ...
 
schmookeeg said:
I had enough experience to not tie up the frequency asking "if you see meeee" multiple times. The layers of failed fundamental knowledge in that question alone is hideous.

Then after using a minute of airtime negotiating out the heading suggestion, he proceeds to... not do it?! :eek: that controller is one seriously chill dude.

I hope there's either a really shocked/dismayed UND instructor there, or a really fired UND instructor there.
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I was impressed with the controller. He could have done better, but I’ve personally had much worse. The student definitely has a lot of learning to do, ideally before he is turned loose solo again. But I think you can buy any UND CFI a beer and hear a personal story worse than this one. They don’t get to be as selective about their students or curriculum as I would personally want.
 
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