Who invented the VASI?

Trogdor

Trogdor

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Trogdor
I’ve found references to the PAPI. But does anyone know who invented the VASI?
 
Me:
Who invented the visual approach slope indicator that's used at airports?

ChatGPT:
The visual approach slope indicator (VASI) was invented by aeronautical engineer Carl Runge in the 1940s. The VASI is a system of lights that helps pilots maintain the correct approach angle when landing an aircraft. Runge's invention revolutionized the way pilots approached landings, making them safer and more reliable. Today, VASI systems are commonly used at airports all over the world to aid pilots in making safe landings.

Me:
was that Carl Werner Runge or Carl David Runge

ChatGPT:
I apologize for the error in my previous response. The inventor of the visual approach slope indicator (VASI) is actually Carl Werner Runge, not Carl David Runge. Carl Werner Runge was a German-American aeronautical engineer who worked for the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) in the United States in the 1940s. He is credited with developing the VASI system of lights to assist pilots in making safe landings. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and I hope this answers your question more accurately.
 
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NoHeat said:
Me:
Who invented the visual approach slope indicator that's used at airports?

ChatGPT:
The visual approach slope indicator (VASI) was invented by aeronautical engineer Carl Runge in the 1940s. The VASI is a system of lights that helps pilots maintain the correct approach angle when landing an aircraft. Runge's invention revolutionized the way pilots approached landings, making them safer and more reliable. Today, VASI systems are commonly used at airports all over the world to aid pilots in making safe landings.

Me:
was that Carl Werner Runge or Carl David Runge

ChatGPT:
I apologize for the error in my previous response. The inventor of the visual approach slope indicator (VASI) is actually Carl Werner Runge, not Carl David Runge. Carl Werner Runge was a German-American aeronautical engineer who worked for the Civil Aeronautics Administration (CAA) in the United States in the 1940s. He is credited with developing the VASI system of lights to assist pilots in making safe landings. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and I hope this answers your question more accurately.
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Hmm, my check with ChatGPT 3.5 gives the following:

Carl Werner Runge, also known as Werner Runge, was a German physicist and mathematician who lived from 1880 to 1960. He was the son of Carl Runge, who was also a mathematician and physicist.

Werner Runge did make significant contributions to the field of optics and spectroscopy, and he was involved in the development of various scientific instruments. However, there is no evidence that he was involved in the development of the Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI) system.

As I mentioned earlier, the VASI system was developed by a team of engineers and technicians at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in the late 1940s. The team included individuals from various branches of the FAA, including the Flight Standards Service, Air Traffic Control Service, and Technical Development Service.

ChatGPT 4.0 gives the following:

The Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI) is a system of lights that helps pilots maintain the correct approach angle to the runway during landing. It was invented by engineer and inventor Paul C. Hays, who filed a patent for the device in 1956. The VASI system has since been widely adopted at airports around the world, helping pilots to land safely and efficiently.

As I fiddle with it, I get increasingly bizarre answers. I can't find anything about anyone named Paul C. Hays and VASI.
 
It get weirder. I asked for the patent name:

What was the name of the patent?

The patent filed by Paul C. Hays for the Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI) system is titled "Glide Path Indicator" and was granted on September 30, 1958, as US Patent No. 2,854,644. The patent describes the invention and its application, providing details on the design and function of the glide path indicator, which later became known as the VASI system.

The patent date is correct, but the Patent title is "Electrical component and method of making" by DANIELS CHARLES J et al. (See https://ppubs.uspto.gov/pubwebapp/static/pages/ppubsbasic.html and enter the patent number.)

There's a lesson to be learned here.
 
mcdewey said:
It get weirder. I asked for the patent name:

What was the name of the patent?

The patent filed by Paul C. Hays for the Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI) system is titled "Glide Path Indicator" and was granted on September 30, 1958, as US Patent No. 2,854,644. The patent describes the invention and its application, providing details on the design and function of the glide path indicator, which later became known as the VASI system.

The patent date is correct, but the Patent title is "Electrical component and method of making" by DANIELS CHARLES J et al. (See https://ppubs.uspto.gov/pubwebapp/static/pages/ppubsbasic.html and enter the patent number.)

There's a lesson to be learned here.
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"Fake it 'til you make it". AI sure has learned a lot from us humans, hasn't it?
 
Update:

who invented VASI?

The Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI) was invented by a group of engineers at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in the United States in the 1940s. The team was led by Edward H. Heinemann, who was a prominent aeronautical engineer and aircraft designer. The VASI is a system of lights that provides pilots with visual guidance during their approach to a runway, helping them to maintain the correct glide slope for a safe landing. It has become an essential part of aviation safety and is used at airports around the world.

What about Carl Runge?

Carl Runge was a German mathematician and physicist who made significant contributions to several areas of mathematics and physics, including numerical analysis, partial differential equations, optics, and spectroscopy. However, as far as I know, he did not invent the Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI).

It's possible that Carl Runge made contributions to the mathematical or scientific principles that underlie the VASI system, but I couldn't find any specific information linking him to the invention of VASI itself. As I mentioned earlier, the VASI was developed by a team of engineers at the FAA in the United States in the 1940s, and its invention is generally credited to that team rather than to any individual person.

Didn't Paul Hayes patent it?

It is true that a patent was filed for the Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI) system by Paul K. Hayes, who was an electrical engineer at the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), in 1952. However, it's important to note that patents are not the same as inventing something. In this case, the VASI system had already been invented and in use for several years before the patent was filed.

As I mentioned earlier, the VASI was developed by a team of engineers at the FAA in the United States in the 1940s, with Edward H. Heinemann as the team leader. The VASI system was in use at airports by the early 1950s, and it's likely that Paul Hayes's patent was filed to protect improvements or modifications to the original system rather than to claim credit for the invention itself. So while Paul Hayes may have played a role in the development and refinement of the VASI system, he did not actually invent it.

What is the patent number?

I'm sorry, but I don't have access to a database of patent information. However, if you're interested in finding the patent number for Paul Hayes's patent related to the VASI system, you can search for it using the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) patent search database, which is available online. You can search for patents by keyword, inventor name, or other criteria. Once you find the patent number, you can view the full text of the patent and other related information.
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NealRomeoGolf said:
Side question: how much do they cost fully installed?
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According to ChatGPT:
The cost of a visual approach slope indicator (VASI) can vary depending on factors such as the location, size of the airport, and the type of VASI system being installed. A basic two-bar VASI system can cost between $10,000 to $20,000, while a more advanced four-bar system can cost between $20,000 to $40,000 or more.

Additionally, installation costs can vary depending on factors such as site preparation, electrical work, and labor costs. A fully installed VASI system can cost anywhere from $30,000 to $70,000 or more, depending on the specific requirements of the installation. It's best to consult with a professional aviation services provider or VASI system manufacturer to get a more accurate estimate based on your specific needs.
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Or:
A Visual Approach Slope Indicator (VASI) is a system of lights located next to the runway of an airport that provides visual guidance to pilots during approach and landing.

The cost of a VASI system can vary depending on a number of factors, such as the type of VASI system, the location and size of the airport, and the installation costs. As a rough estimate, the cost of a basic two-bar VASI system can range from $10,000 to $30,000, while a more advanced four-bar VASI system can cost upwards of $50,000 or more.

It's important to note that these estimates are for the equipment only and do not include installation costs, which can vary depending on factors such as the location, terrain, and other factors unique to each airport. The cost of installation can range from several thousand to tens of thousands of dollars.
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I was today years old when I found out that there are pilot controlled VASIs just like runway lights.
 
midwestpa24 said:
How about this old gem? Wonder if any airports still have this?

View attachment 116392
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One of the airports near Warrenton, VA, used to have them. I can’t remember which one, though.

I do, however, remember almost flying into the trees because we didn’t know what they actually were.:eek:

For the record, if the runway lights flicker when you’re on final at night, it’s a bad thing.
 
NoHeat said:
1963 Chevy Nova station wagon. Airport crew cars often seem to be that old, but I don't recall driving that model in particular.
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Very cool picture. That 63 chev was the pickup truck of the 60s. Remember when pickup trucks became popular years later?
 
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ChatGPT mentions airports and runways. There are tri colored VASIs at heliports as well.
33D7AFFF-4077-488C-B2E0-60FE02D9B14F.jpeg 0CF94C68-0321-4C3B-AB3F-AAEB7171A69D.jpeg
 
I asked ChatGPT a series of “Who developed this” and “who invented this” questions the other night about a subject of which I have detailed knowledge. The answers in every single case were wildly and totally incorrect, not even close. This was stuff you could easily find with a simple Google search. I hope no one is relying on it for actual correct answers.
 
DaleB said:
I asked ChatGPT a series of “Who developed this” and “who invented this” questions the other night about a subject of which I have detailed knowledge. The answers in every single case were wildly and totally incorrect, not even close. This was stuff you could easily find with a simple Google search. I hope no one is relying on it for actual correct answers.
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Try Google's Bard (their competitor to GPT).
It told me the Cirrus SF50 (Cirrus Jet) wingspan was 18', that Microsoft IPO'd in 2019 and that Nissan is an American car company headquartered in Georgia. It'll be a while before I'm trusting those technologies with my life.

I will say this thread did cause me to go down a small rabbit hole trying to find who invented the VASI though ;) (I kept seeing inventor references to the T-VASIS instead).
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
It'll be a while before I'm trusting those technologies with my life.
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I wouldn’t trust them to tell a five year old how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I think back to the pre-Internet days, when if you wanted to know something you looked it up in an encyclopedia, or took a college course, or asked someone who knew.

Then we had search engines and web pages. There was knowledge sharing (and a fair amount of nonsense) but the net was not yet fully commercialized. Yahoo, then later Google, were fairly useful for looking things up.

Now the “search” engines are focused on generating revenue in any way possible. Accuracy means nothing. Search results in most cases consist almost exclusively of links to advertisers or to YouTube, where the vast majority of “content” is there only to monetize your time. Finding reliable, correct answers to most questions borders on impossible… but misinformation and downright wrong BS is dished out by the cubic kilometer.

We’d be better off going to the library to look it up in the encyclopedia again, but both of those things are nearly gone now. So we’ll get AI dishing up more utter claptrap that people will mistake for fact, since it’s delivered with an air of authority.

When I got into this industry it held such promise. It was so wonderful to work around people who seemed to be an order of magnitude smarter than me. Now if there are any actual freakin’ geniuses at work in software and AI you’d never know it by the work product. I’m really, really not looking forward to the next couple of decades.
 
DaleB said:
I wouldn’t trust them to tell a five year old how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
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Okay, I tried it, with an extra challenge of making it a limerick. The outcome wasn’t bad. The second line was a throwaway, but no harm done:

NoHeat:
Write instructions for making a peanut-butter-jelly sandwich, in the style of a limerick

ChatGPT:
To make a PB&J, follow these steps,
A sandwich that never outsteps,
Get two slices of bread,
Peanut butter you'll spread,
Jelly on top, then close with no regrets!
 
NoHeat said:
Okay, I tried it, with an extra challenge of making it a limerick. The outcome wasn’t bad. The second line was a throwaway, but no harm done:

NoHeat:
Write instructions for making a peanut-butter-jelly sandwich, in the style of a limerick

ChatGPT:
To make a PB&J, follow these steps,
A sandwich that never outsteps,
Get two slices of bread,
Peanut butter you'll spread,
Jelly on top, then close with no regrets!
Click to expand...
So it turns out I was right, then? Ever try to spread jelly on top of peanut butter? Any five year old knows you put the jelly on one half, the peanut butter on the other half, and put the peanut butter and jelly sides together.

It didn't even get the meter right for a limerick.
 
I used to install T-Vasis in Australia and PNG in the early 1970s as a very young airport engineer with the Australian DCA. I was always told it was an Australian invention. The following article may be proof. I know the author and he is a true expert on these things. Happy reading! Cheers, and thanks for letting an Aussie be part of your great Forum!
http://www.airwaysmuseum.com/T-VASIS article.htm
 
Just a visual range (as used by ships since before there were patents) turned on it's side.
 
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