which plane best fits this mission?

A

Artimas

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Artimas
4 seat plane to keep insurance down
2 adults
some reasonable amount of baggage
160 knots
single engine
500 mile range plus reserve.
common enough that parts are available and mechanics know them

Cirrus SR22
Short body Bo

any others?
 
182RG
some of the Mooneys
Turbo Arrow
Cessna Columbia/TTx
(Commander 114, Bellanca Viking, others may not fit the 'common, well-known' criteria).
 
Once you have owned a Bonanza its very hard to own something else. They are expensive to buy for a reason. That said, there are many great airplanes out there. Just pick one that turns your prop.
 
What's the insurance cost on a Cirrus?
 
Why 4 seats for 2 adults and baggage?
My wife and I just flew from Kansas City to Destin, Fl at 155kts w/ 100lbs baggage at 8.5 gph.
But I only have 2 seats in my RV-9A.
 
160 knots is asking a lot from Arrow and 182, even RG. I don't know of any Archer that will do that

Comanche?

What's the budget? An early non turbo no TKS no AC SR22 could fit this bill nice.. the one I was renting easily does 170 knots at 8,000 ft and had the weight and balance for four people and baggage for reasonable length trips
 
Clip4 said:
Your 160 knot Archer must be flying over rainbows next to the unicorns.
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Yeah, missed that part but 130 doable, I have lots of speed mods, gap seals, wing root seals and wheel pants.
 
I should have said no more than 4 seats. A 2 seat would be fine. 6 seats increases insurance costs.
I am not interested in homebuilts.
Thanks for the thoughts so far.
 
Artimas said:
I should have said no more than 4 seats. A 2 seat would be fine. 6 seats increases insurance costs.
I am not interested in homebuilts.
Thanks for the thoughts so far.
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Can I ask why?
When I was looking to buy, a Mooney M20E was at the top of my list. Effectively a 2-seater, fast, and fuel efficient.
I hadn’t even considered experimental.
Then I started looking at Vans.
Over 10,000 flying examples.
Super-simple and great safety record.
I know not everyone is comfortable with E/AB, but for me, it was the best aviation decision I ever made.
 
Artimas said:
I should have said no more than 4 seats. A 2 seat would be fine. 6 seats increases insurance costs.
I am not interested in homebuilts.
Thanks for the thoughts so far.
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Honestly, what's the mission? How often would you fly 500nm? 6 seats doesn't necessarily increase insurance costs, it's the RG part of going 160 knots that does. Insurance on an older 206 or a fixed gear PA32 should be less than a Cirrus because the hulls value is less. Not saying 6 seats are for you, just that insurance probably shouldn't be why they get ruled out.

Back to cruise speed. That 500 nm leg going 160 knots vs 135, you save what 30 minutes on a flight that lasts over 3 hours? How many hours a year do you fly? What do you have time in? Any RG time? People frequently over buy for a once a year mission that saves a really minimal amount of time in the grand scheme of things.
 
Adam Weiss said:
Can I ask why?
When I was looking to buy, a Mooney M20E was at the top of my list. Effectively a 2-seater, fast, and fuel efficient.
I hadn’t even considered experimental.
Then I started looking at Vans.
Over 10,000 flying examples.
Super-simple and great safety record.
I know not everyone is comfortable with E/AB, but for me, it was the best aviation decision I ever made.
Click to expand...
I'm waiting to see what they come up with for the 15, otherwise might go the 10, or 14 route. There's a lot of benefits to go with eab that I really like. Maybe it's the libertarian in me? Maybe it's me being wanting something not built in the 60's but being a cb and not buying a Cirrus or Columbia? With that said, I'd be really hesitant to buy one someone else built unless it was a build assist from a known shop. The guy that used rtv on his an fuel line fittings that predictably got clogged and killed his family in a 10 comes to mind. Wouldn't catch that on a pre-buy. And doing it yourself is definitely a labor of love and it's not for everyone.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Piper Comanche

Sent from my SM-N976U using Tapatalk
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I've been watching Comanches lately, because they really seem like a great answer for the "real" 4 seat XC, but insurance for a low time pilot has gone through the roof on them - I have seen $4600 / year. Same for a Cherokee 6. Not sure how some of the other choices fair in this regard.
 
You can insure a plane like an A36 with only 4 seats installed. You leave the 5th and 6th out (they are super easy to remove) and you have a 4 seat plane for insurance purposes with a HUGE baggage area.
 
Artimas said:
I should have said no more than 4 seats. A 2 seat would be fine. 6 seats increases insurance costs.
I am not interested in homebuilts.
Thanks for the thoughts so far.
Click to expand...

Hull value is by far the biggest factor in premium. Yes, you will pay more to insure 6 seats vs 4, but not that much.
 
JEB said:
You can insure a plane like an A36 with only 4 seats installed. You leave the 5th and 6th out (they are super easy to remove) and you have a 4 seat plane for insurance purposes with a HUGE baggage area.
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You can, but you’ll need a good insurance agent to negotiate it for you and if the underwriter agrees, you’ll likely have to sign paperwork agreeing that you will never put those seats back in.
 
What's the insurance uptick on an rg in general? For a low time pilot? I hear older pilots wanting to switch companies can't even get insured. If you can afford an A36, you're probably not too concerned about insurance costs.

If you're concerned about insurance and the 160kt is mandatory and won't consider EAB your options are probably pretty limited depending on your complex time.
 
Tantalum said:
160 knots is asking a lot from Arrow and 182, even RG.
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FYI… My fixed gear 182P with the Rajay turbo-normalized STC easily see 155-165 TAS depending on altitude up high, usually 14K-17K MSL. The draggy 182 airframe does pretty well when producing 75% power up high.

Slightly better performance for T182T or 182TR.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You can, but you’ll need a good insurance agent to negotiate it for you and if the underwriter agrees, you’ll likely have to sign paperwork agreeing that you will never put those seats back in.
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It's really not a big deal to do this. My agent actually suggested I initially insure with 4 seats. He then wrote up the policy with a line item stating that I'd have only 4 seats filled at any given time. Later on, I asked him to revise the policy to allow me to fill the seats - which he did with a phone call. It's a simple thing. No need to over-think it.
 
Artimas said:
4 seat plane to keep insurance down
2 adults
some reasonable amount of baggage
160 knots
single engine
500 mile range plus reserve.
common enough that parts are available and mechanics know them

Cirrus SR22
Short body Bo

any others?
Click to expand...

What about M20K?
 
JEB said:
It's really not a big deal to do this. My agent actually suggested I initially insure with 4 seats. He then wrote up the policy with a line item stating that I'd have only 4 seats filled at any given time. Later on, I asked him to revise the policy to allow me to fill the seats - which he did with a phone call. It's a simple thing. No need to over-think it.
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Didn’t say it was a big deal. Just need to make sure you cover all bases. And yes, I’ve been through this before as well
 
Insurance is pretty close to the bottom of the list of expenses I worry about owning a plane.
 
NordicDave said:
My fixed gear 182P with the Rajay turbo-normalized STC easily see 155-165 TAS depending on altitude up high, usually 14K-17K MSL. The draggy 182 airframe does pretty well when producing 75% power up high.
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That's impressive. Our NA 182RG gets just shy of 160 around 8,000.. turbo's are wonderful things!!
 
The mission is 2 adults, baggage and a small dog going about 900 miles round trip monthly (NY to FL). The 500 miles is so we can do it with only 1 stop. 135 vs 160 knots is pretty significant for a trip that long. I have about 1,200 hours RG time mostly in a Cessna 210. The 210 is good for the mission but a little on the large side and burns more fuel than most 2-4 passenger planes. I have been considering other options to reduce expenses, but there aren't many I could think of, thus my question.

My A&P/IA won't work on homebuilts and I am a mechanical dunce, so certified only for me even though homebuilts offer excellent options.

Thanks for the opinions and discussion.
 
What I find interesting, not bad, but interesting, is that there are many choices out there for a fast airplane that will fit the bill. I crunched the numbers, and in my Cherokee, the trip from NJ to FL can be made in about 9 hours, with one fuel stop. At 160kt, it's just under 8 hours, with one fuel stop.
What I found to be most interesting indeed was indicated on a recent trip to TX, I flew commercial. Took about 12 hours to get to my final destination, when had I gone by Cherokee, it would have been ~8 hours. And believe it or not, would have been less expensive. (but at least the booze on the tube was free, :D )
 
bluerooster said:
in my Cherokee, the trip from NJ to FL can be made in about 9 hours, with one fuel stop. At 160kt, it's just under 8 hours, with one fuel stop.
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Wouldn't that be 2 fuel stops in the Cherokee?
 
The 182 RG is what we settled on as the perfect airplane for similar mission except we had two kids in the back, and it still accommodated all our luggage. When he had to start flying over mountains regularly we got the twin.
 
Are you flying 500 miles one way or 900 miles one way? If it’s the latter, I would put a real premium on speed. As mentioned above, an M20K seems pretty good for your mission. Your focus on six seats vis-a-vis insurance cost is misguided. I can almost guarantee that my six seat plane (205) costs me about half of what it would cost me to insure a four-seat M20K.
 
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