Which Piper?

Which Piper?

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .
spiderweb

spiderweb

Final Approach
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Feb 22, 2005
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Ben
Which of the three high-end, six-seat, piston Piper aircraft would you pick, and why? Do you feel they're roughly comparable, or do you have a strong opinion as to why one might win out? Assume you have the money for the purchase, upkeep, and insurance! (Thanks to Dr. Bruce for pointing this out!)

1) Seneca: Multiengine Piston Unpressurized
(2) Continental TSIO-360-RB 220hp ea
Six Seats / Club Seating
197 KTAS / 365 km/h max cruise
828 NM / 1,533 km range
Garmin or Avidyne Avionics
$849,000 (+ $45,00 for full deice group (not sure if that's FIKI))

2) Matrix: Single Engine Piston Unpressurized
Lycoming TIO-540-AE2A 350hp
Six Seats / Club Seating
213 KTAS / 395 KM/h max cruise
1,343 nm / 2,491 km cruise
Garmin or Avidyne Avionics
$869,000 (+ $56,400 for FIKI)

3) Mirage: Single Engine Piston Pressurized
Lycoming TIO-540-AE2A 350hp
Six Seats / Club Seating
213 KTAS / 394 KM/h max cruise
1,343 nm / 2,491 km cruise
Garmin or Avidyne Avionics
$997,500 (+ $56,400 for FIKI)

(all data from newpiper website)
 
Last edited:
Turbo Aztec. Cheaper, more reliable, and hauls more stuff.

I know it wasn't on the list. I really don't like any of the current Piper offerings.
 
Seneca II or III. The debt service on $900,000 would force me to work until long after I should. The insurance would pay for the retirement home.
 
bbchien said:
Seneca II or III. The debt service on $900,000 would force me to work until long after I should. The insurance would pay for the retirement home.
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Good point! OK, I re-wrote this question so that one has (hypothetically) the money for purchase, upkeep, and insurance! :goofy:
 
Assuming these are my choices, and I have the money for upkeep and time for training, I go with the Mirage. It is a bit more, but I get pressurization with my FIKI, and a decent range. IDK, people say that a piston twin might be easier to mange, but I think that one engine would be easier, even with the pressurization and other systems to think about.
 
If cost is no object and I can afford to spend 900K, I would buy a C500/505/510. It will cost substantially less than 900 K and the difference would go towards operation. They are much less fuss to fly.

Friends don't allow friends to fly a Malibu. 10% of the fleet has experienced catastrophic engine failure.
 
I don't want to seem partial, but I feel that the Mirage is the best choice. I couldn't give up the pressurization for anything. With most of our flights over 4 hrs and above FL200 I couldn't ask for anything better.

Remember "buy one", the kids need an education.

Kevin
 
bbchien said:
Friends don't allow friends to fly a Malibu. 10% of the fleet has experienced catastrophic engine failure.
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Pressurized piston singles seem to be plagued with engine problems and lackluster performance. You're asking for a lot out of one engine, so it doesn't surprise me. It works better for Kevin's mission since he has long enough trips to get up to the flight levels and enjoy the time up there, but is less practical for a lot of trips.

Of course I, like Bruce, appreciate having a spare. I've really become fond of the performance on the RAM T310R. A friend of mine has one, and dang is it fast.
 
I've spent a fair amount of time in the Seneca II, and it is great from a space and useful load standpoint. That said, the pressurization and speed of a Mirage would be my vote.
 
Just keep the cabin door closed, it will float longer. It's interesting because it was a Jetprop. They say their engines never fail. We'll probably not ever know what happened.

History shows it was in an accident sometime back and I don't work on this one.

Kevin
 
Avoid the matrix. Why carry around the weight of a pressurized structure without the benefit of the pressurization found on the mirage.

Choosing between the other two really depends on your mission. No one can answer that but you.
 
kmead said:
Just keep the cabin door closed, it will float longer. It's interesting because it was a Jetprop. They say their engines never fail. We'll probably not ever know what happened.
Click to expand...

The concept that any engine never fails is simple ignorance. People like to believe turbines won't fail for a lot of reasons, but it just ain't true. If it exists, it can fail. The best you can hope for is a low probability of failure.
 
spiderweb said:
Crazy. And that was a turbine? I guess twins are the way to go!

Is a P-Baron completely crazy to own, in terms of upkeep?
Click to expand...

Partially related, here's an opinion on Dukes:

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7798817/

Twins give you advantages in certain situations. Flying out over the Gulf of Mexico is definitely one of them, since almost any twin can maintain sea level, even on a hot day at gross.
 
Ah heck Ben, just go all out and get a Twin Otter. Then you can carry all the instruments for your trio, piano included. :D
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Avoid the matrix. Why carry around the weight of a pressurized structure without the benefit of the pressurization found on the mirage.
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You're not, really. There are quite a lot of differences in the Matrix structure compared to the Mirage. That's one of the reasons the Matrix has a lower empty weight. Yes, there is equipment installed on the Mirage that is not on the Matrix. But my point is that the Matrix is NOT just a Mirage without the pressurization controller and outflow valve.
 
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