Where to learn more about the Piper Malibu

brian]

brian]

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Aug 4, 2014
Messages
1,473
Location
Arkansas
Display Name
Display name:
brian]
Where is the best place to learn more about the Piper Malibu?
 
Join www.dfwpilots.com/board and speak with a member named Mark. He owns one and has been very willing to share his knowledge and experience.
 
Kevin Mead is possibly the top guy in the country on the PA46 and he is a member. He had the top shop for the model and sold it. Now he focuses on pre-buys for only PA46's. kevin@malibumirage.com. His member name is kmead.
 
Any place like "beech talk" for piper aircraft?
 
mscard88 said:
GTS! (google that ****) ;):D
Click to expand...
That's where I'm at now.

Nets facts. No crusty old guys talking about the pros and cons of some obscure mod or thing to consider when considering one.
 
If you want the actual owners perspective, spend the money to become a member of MMOPA. If you want second hand gossip, ask here.
 
Mmopa will give you a 30 day free trial if you ask the administrators. There is lots of info on them there. There are also several people that will be glad to tell you about them. If you are interested I can pass on some contacts. If you ar close to Tampa you can come and fly with me in mine. Mine also happens to be for sale as I am going to move up to a turbine pa46 :)
 
Right now I don't know what I don't know.

Was convinced my choice for a business ride would be a booted C310 or BE55/58. TBM would be excellent but way out of budget. Just need to carry a couple of folks as fast as possible in acceptable weather. (Year round to either coast. Still a couple of years out- I hope.

But like I said- I don't know what I don't know.
 
Fly Babies are better aircraft, and Malibus acknowlege it....
respect.jpg


Ron Wanttaja
 
I've flown the 310, Baron, and Malibu. Describe your mission and what you want out of it as precisely as you can and I'll give you my opinion.

As to your mention of a 310 or Baron either one of those two twins is better then the Malibu at:

1. When one engine fails.
2. Ice. The Malibu doesn't carry ice very well at all, compared to the 310 or Baron.

The Malibu is better than the 310 or Baron:
1. Pressurization. The ability to comfortably cruise in the flight levels.
2. Range.
3. Passenger comfort (like, not a little better, a LOT better).
4. Don't have to feed two engines.
5. A lot more things.
 
Mission is shaping up to flying myself and maybe 1-2 others for business from central Arkansas to either coast. Trips to Canada are likely as well. Year round.

Airlines will be a backup (already primary).

To be honest, I still have a lot to learn. The Malibu just pops up sometimes when I start asking questions, a turbo prop comes up as the answer and I say "yeow " when I run the numbers.
 
Jesse summed it up well. If you want to do the west coast, turbos become nice, as does pressurization. But you can do it naturally aspirated.

Purchase price on the twins will be lower, as will total hourly cost if naturally aspirated. If turbo'd, it gets closer.
 
Ted - I have you to thank for even asking this question. I had pretty much given up on the idea of using GA for business. Then your comments at Gastons on the 310 started me asking a few folks other questions. IM SENDING YOU THE BILL! (Just kidding. But can I?)

This started out as just stress relief farting around in an old worthless piece of aluminum ...

(By the way- $250 to ask questions about a Piper?! Wow! Cheap if you are already an owner, but just to ask questions?!)
 
(By the way- $250 to ask questions about a Piper?! Wow! Cheap if you are already an owner, but just to ask questions?!)

I was a bit put off by the fact that I had to buy a membership to both the MMOPA and the EJOPA (Eclipse) prior to buying an airplane, as well. However, once I bit the bullet, I found it to be an incredibly wise use of the money. You will get the most accurate experiences from people that regularly fly and own the airplanes, and that will be important to you as you explore all of your options.

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY
 
It's pretty normal for the owner's groups to require a membership fee prior to buying an airplane. Keep in mind, they can be a tremendous resource as you are working through the details of figuring out what to buy. $250 is less than one hour of flight time in any of the birds you're considering (total cost). But the Twin Cessna owner's group (www.twincessna.org) costs under $100/yr. :)

You can send me all the bills you want, I just will return them, unpaid, with a bill for "consulting fees". :D

In all seriousness, glad my comments helped to get you thinking about this path. It really is such a better way to get around for most travel cases. Not necessarily cheaper, but often times faster.

Obviously, I'm biased towards 310s and I think that they make excellent airplanes for the mission. They're more comfortable and more spacious than the Baron for 4 people (wider cabin up front), speeds are similar. As I may have posted, I'm seeing 190 KTAS @ 23 GPH combined now, 198 @ 27. The plane is happy up into the mid teens. I've had it to FL190, but it doesn't like it up there. Keep in mind, the one I fly is naturally aspirated, has 520s, and I've put a LOT of effort into optimizing it over the past 5+ years.

Really, I would look at how much you plan on flying over the big rocks. If you're going to fly over them a lot, you want to be turbocharged and in my opinion have a second engine, but that's a personal choice - many SR22Ts and Malibus fly over the big rocks. Turbos add expense in the form of more fuel and more maintenance, but they also will get you more speed. If I had to make regular trips over the big rocks, I'd be looking at at least a turbocharged plane, and probably pressurization as well. I've only had to fly to the west coast a handful of times.

I'd be glad to talk to you about 310 ownership if you're interested.
 
Why don't you ask some questions here? Stipulate that anyone who answer your questions needs to either own one or fly one regularly. What do you want to know?
 
bikert said:
Why don't you ask some questions here? Stipulate that anyone who answer your questions needs to either own one or fly one regularly. What do you want to know?
Click to expand...

That's the rub - I really don't know what I don't know right now.

Some of you grew up with airplanes while others have a buddy that pulls them along at a similar level. I have some aviation friends, but I can't afford a learjet (although climbing at 4000'+ a minute would be pretty cool). That seems to be what they do for a living. When I mentioned a twin, they suggested an SR22. Looking around and asking questions, I figured at the price of an SR22 there was a piper that could go higher and faster: the Malibu. Who knew ... (not me)

In the end, I'm betting it will be just a tradeoff somewhere in this price range. But first I'll need to learn a little about the options out there. Just never even thought about a Malibu and basically know little more than it has a propeller...


What I keep hearing that is interesting about the Malibu is the pressurization and speed. The A* was another aircraft I was hearing about. Keeping the costs down with one engine is also an interesting plus.

Here are some simple Malibu questions:
  • Are parts easy to come by? (This will be for business use - not looking for some oddball that can't be fixed without calling a salvage yard)
  • Are the parts super spendy (by aviation standards)?
  • Any critical years to watch out for? (e.g. "old" V-Tails are -35-G35, "new" V-Tails are H35-V35)
  • Anything that breaks more easily than others?
  • Any engine issues of concern? (e.g. the continental accessory otherwise known as a cylinder)
  • What headaches does pressurization add to this model (e.g. a 58P is limited to 10000 hours)
  • FIKI available? (I'm not knowingly going into ice unless I'm in the back of a jet with a drink in hand - so mostly looking for the option as an escape.)

The list goes on. I'll likely spend the $250 - was shocked as ABS is only about $100 and is pretty well known. I don't remember Cessna or the AYA group being very much either.
 
brian] said:
  • Are parts easy to come by? (This will be for business use - not looking for some oddball that can't be fixed without calling a salvage yard)
Click to expand...
Piper supports the plane.

  • Are the parts super spendy (by aviation standards)?
Click to expand...

Engine, instruments and avionics are off the shelf and comparable to other aircraft. There are not many after-market suppliers like you would find them for PA28, Cessnas or Beeches so if you ever need an airframe part, it can get spendy due to the single-source situation. 'Dont break a windshield or engine mount' is a recommendation I was given by someone knowledgeable.

  • Any critical years to watch out for? (e.g. "old" V-Tails are -35-G35, "new" V-Tails are H35-V35)
Click to expand...
The fundamental difference is whether you want a Continental powered Malibu or a Lycoming powered Malibu Mirage. Try to get hold of Kevin Meade, while he has sold his shop a couple of years ago, he still does consulting and pre-purchase evaluations.

  • Anything that breaks more easily than others?
Click to expand...
People used to break engine mounts (it also carries the nosewheel). Piper upgraded it and iirc there is an AMOC for a beefed up structure.


  • Any engine issues of concern? (e.g. the continental accessory otherwise known as a cylinder)
Click to expand...
You are pulling a lot of power out of an engine in very thin air. Both Conti and Lycoming powered versions have had their share of cylinder problems.

  • What headaches does pressurization add to this model (e.g. a 58P is limited to 10000 hours)
Click to expand...

The pressurization runs off the turbocharging system, so a certain level of boost has to be maintained at altitude. In typical operating procedures that doesn't seem to be an issue. Like any pressurized aircraft, as long as the system works, it is no headache. Once it doesn't, leak searches can create a lot of man-hours.
  • FIKI available? (I'm not knowingly going into ice unless I'm in the back of a jet with a drink in hand - so mostly looking for the option as an escape.)
Click to expand...

Yes.

The list goes on. I'll likely spend the $250 - was shocked as ABS is only about $100 and is pretty well known. I don't remember Cessna or the AYA group being very much either.
Click to expand...

Well, that is to get you used to spending money ;-) It's a test, if you think $250 is money, a Malibu may not be the right plane for you....
 
Last edited:
I had a Columbia before the Malibu and spent more maintaining it than the Malibu. They are very quiet inside. Pressurization is very simple and although on mine I have to maintain at least 21 inches, that has never been a problem as I pretty much do full power descent. I usually burn about 13 gal at around 200kts true. Haven't found parts to be especially expensive. The pressure vessel is limited to 10000 hrs. The older ones have a better useful load. I think at slow speeds they fly like a warrior. They go fast very quickly however. I don't see need for speed brakes (which I don't have). Gear down is 170kts indicated as is first notch of flaps. Those take you to 120 kts in about a minute.
 
Brian,
Before you send any money joining clubs, you need to set in the left seat of a Malibu. I was thinking of buying one until I tried to fit into the left seat. The seat was down and back as far as it could and my head was hitting the ceiling. The salesman said they could have the seat foam reduced but I did not want to travel 4 or 5 hours sitting on a hard seat. I cannot fit in that plane. End on my dream to own one of them.
 
Theboys said:
I had a Columbia before the Malibu and spent more maintaining it than the Malibu. They are very quiet inside. Pressurization is very simple and although on mine I have to maintain at least 21 inches, that has never been a problem as I pretty much do full power descent. I usually burn about 13 gal at around 200kts true. Haven't found parts to be especially expensive. The pressure vessel is limited to 10000 hrs. The older ones have a better useful load. I think at slow speeds they fly like a warrior. They go fast very quickly however. I don't see need for speed brakes (which I don't have). Gear down is 170kts indicated as is first notch of flaps. Those take you to 120 kts in about a minute.
Click to expand...
13 gph and 200kts?......I seriously doubt that. prolly more like 18-20 gph.
 
James331 said:
FIKI 210?
Click to expand...
The P210 isn't out, but since I'm a Bonanza owner already, a TN'd 36 with boots (or TKS) would likely be more to my liking than a non pressurized 210. (Don't tell the other bonanza guys this, but a moony with a big engine has not been ruled out.) Regardless - I'll likely stick with a purchase that still has support from the factory.

Scott@KTYR said:
Brian,
Before you send any money joining clubs, you need to set in the left seat of a Malibu. I was thinking of buying one until I tried to fit into the left seat. The seat was down and back as far as it could and my head was hitting the ceiling. The salesman said they could have the seat foam reduced but I did not want to travel 4 or 5 hours sitting on a hard seat. I cannot fit in that plane. End on my dream to own one of them.
Click to expand...
I'm a smallish guy - so I'll likely fit. But that is a good comment. I won't waste anyone's flight time for now, but I will definitely fly whatever I buy first. That is what sold the old V-Tail I fly now. I don't expect the elegance of the old -35 flight controls in a business transport, but the left seat has to "fit" if you are spending that many significant digits on a set of wings...

Curious - what did you end up buying?
 
Theboys said:
Mmopa will give you a 30 day free trial if you ask the administrators. There is lots of info on them there. There are also several people that will be glad to tell you about them. If you are interested I can pass on some contacts. If you ar close to Tampa you can come and fly with me in mine. Mine also happens to be for sale as I am going to move up to a turbine pa46 :)
Click to expand...

This is probably the more interesting comment: moving from the piston version to the turbine version. You must have enjoyed the ownership experience enough to stay with Piper. I guess upgrading is something to consider as well. Most likely whatever gets acquired will be "temporary". That is 5-10 years later this business aircraft will likely be sold (downsizing) or upgraded. Would be curious how your transition goes.

(By the way, I've been looking for the listing - as a reference point. Hopefully you will be able to sell before I'm ready - next year if the economy doesn't get wonky again.)
 
brian] said:
The P210 isn't out, but since I'm a Bonanza owner already, a TN'd 36 with boots (or TKS) would likely be more to my liking than a non pressurized 210. (Don't tell the other bonanza guys this, but a moony with a big engine has not been ruled out.) Regardless - I'll likely stick with a purchase that still has support from the factory.
Click to expand...

Understood.

I wouldn't worry too much about the factory support thing, I've never seen someone have a 210 out of service for lack of parts of skilled labor.

For your mission if want a good FIKI.
 
Yep. 13 gal at 200 true at cruise. Continental io550. Several people on this forum have flown or ridden in it if you need further confirmation. I flight plan for 15 with my climb to fl250. It's not advertised yet. Going thru the list of people who have expressed interest in the past. I don't want to be without a pa46 very long. Once you get used to pressurized flying it's hard to go long distances without. Oh on range, I flew from Nebraska to Tampa last trip which is 1080nm. Used 80 gal. Had at least 40 left and if I would have had The outboard fuel caps I would have had 60 left. I think the record ground speed on a Malibu is like 457kts Gs. Best I've done was maybe 290. Oh most pa46s are fiki by the way.
 
Brian,
I decided to keep my Toga and not upgrade.
If I win the lotto I plan on going with a Pilatus pc12
 
Scott@KTYR said:
Brian,
I decided to keep my Toga and not upgrade.
If I win the lotto I plan on going with a Pilatus pc12
Click to expand...

If I could swing a pc12 - I wouldn't have bothered posting here. That is one impressive airplane ... I'll forever slum it with a piston... wait ... lottery is tomorrow night isn't it !!!
 
Theboys said:
Yep. 13 gal at 200 true at cruise. Continental io550. Several people on this forum have flown or ridden in it if you need further confirmation. I flight plan for 15 with my climb to fl250. It's not advertised yet. Going thru the list of people who have expressed interest in the past. I don't want to be without a pa46 very long. Once you get used to pressurized flying it's hard to go long distances without. Oh on range, I flew from Nebraska to Tampa last trip which is 1080nm. Used 80 gal. Had at least 40 left and if I would have had The outboard fuel caps I would have had 60 left. I think the record ground speed on a Malibu is like 457kts Gs. Best I've done was maybe 290. Oh most pa46s are fiki by the way.
Click to expand...

My best ground speed in a malibu was 350 knots. My TAS was 210 knots and a perfectly aligned tail wind of 140 knots. I was flying from San Francisco to Dallas and ended up doing it in one shot! Incredibly efficient plane and comfortable, this was at FL250 smooth and above most of the drama. That was a good day and of course atypical for tail winds at that altitude.
 
brian] said:
If I could swing a pc12 - I wouldn't have bothered posting here. That is one impressive airplane ... I'll forever slum it with a piston... wait ... lottery is tomorrow night isn't it !!!
Click to expand...

If you like the PA46 airframe, the jetprop turbine conversion is one of the cheapest ways to get into a 260 knot turbine single.
 
Theboys said:
Yep. 13 gal at 200 true at cruise. Continental io550. Several people on this forum have flown or ridden in it if you need further confirmation. I flight plan for 15 with my climb to fl250. It's not advertised yet. Going thru the list of people who have expressed interest in the past. I don't want to be without a pa46 very long. Once you get used to pressurized flying it's hard to go long distances without. Oh on range, I flew from Nebraska to Tampa last trip which is 1080nm. Used 80 gal. Had at least 40 left and if I would have had The outboard fuel caps I would have had 60 left. I think the record ground speed on a Malibu is like 457kts Gs. Best I've done was maybe 290. Oh most pa46s are fiki by the way.
Click to expand...
Oh...no turbo? that does explain the low fuel burn....and lower HP at NA altitudes.

a turbo'd version is going to burn at least 18-20 gph at 230 HP (75%)
 
I take it the continental and lycoming Malibu owners fight over which is better- something like the straight and Vtail bonanza owners. Still trying to understand what the trade offs are.
 
bikert said:
If you like the PA46 airframe, the jetprop turbine conversion is one of the cheapest ways to get into a 260 knot turbine single.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I see the jet prop bonanza conversations come up for sale from time to time. That would be cool! But a great way to make a flight plan look like a dotted line across the continent.

Not likely to go there, but what is the range for a conversion like that?
 
Ok. Six as you probably know it's not really possible to pressurize a piston single without twin turbos so anything is actually going to be tsio. The lycoming will burn 18 to 20. The continental will burn 13 to 15. I lean to 13. The early continentals which were 520s had several engine failures which had Piper going to lycoming. The lycoming plane doesn't have as good as useful load and really doesn't fly much if any faster. It uses quite a bit more fuel also. Continental has pretty well fixed engine problems and the 550 derated pretty much eliminated them. I personally like conti,s better. The early malibus are in good demand now. Problem with a turbine bonanza is no pressurization. You would have to suck oxygen about all the time to try to run efficient. The turbine Malibu is good to fl270. It can keep field altitude in the plane to about 16000 ft or little more.
 
Tight cockpit
Long wings mean no T-hangar
Long, thin wings = poor ride in turbulence
 
I'm having a hard time with 13-15 gph....my TSIO-520 Bonanza burns 17.5 gph and does 200 kts at 18,000.

and....the Malibu has a larger fuselage and more wetted area wing....that goes as fast requiring less HP (i.e. less gph)? It's not adding up for me.

I'll buy 13-15 gph....but not turning 200 kts....maybe more like 175 or 170 kts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top