When to abandon the "go" in touch and go

Pi1otguy

Pi1otguy

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Fox McCloud
Not me of course. We all see the first big mistake, one we've all done at some point so I wrong fault that too much. But there's a bigger question that never came up when I got my private.

At what point does one abandon a go around? In the video it he looks super committed to going around after the initial ... deviation. That all the other actions appears to be a go around regardless of what physics allows.

I can only recall abandoning the "go" 2 or 3 times in just over 200 hrs. They all involve being too far down the runway before the go.
 
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He was fully committed to staying on the ground. Then he went sideways and firewalled it. Then went in the grass. Shut er down. Don't add speed to the situation, you're already on the ground.
 
I dont think I've added a Go to my last 300 Touches.

I've found its really hard to run out of runway, fry off brakes or be last minute misconfigured if the landing ends with a nice turn off onto the taxiway.

That one is hard to watch.
 
When I first got my complex airplane I decided that once the wheels hit the ground they were going to stay there. I wasn't going to add energy to a potentially bad situation. That decision saved my skin. That said, I did my first touch and go in a complex aircraft just the other day. It was on a 12,000 foot runway.
 
I don't do touch and goes. I thought they were stupid and dangerous when I was in training and have seen nothing to change my mind since.

Want to practice your approaches--do a low approach/go-around.
Want to practice landings--do a stop and go.
 
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I don't think T&G is inherently dangerous or excessively risky. I think the key is, like all things in aviation, to limit the risk and apply good decision making. First off, pick a long runway in your area. Something 5,000' or so is good for most airplanes as it gives ample time to establish the landing then make a positive 'go' decision and still abandon that like any takeoff gone wrong if needed. If you are doing this on a 2500' grass strip, you better be flying a cub :D

Second, as alluded to above, treat the T&G as a LANDING first and foremost. Fully establish a stable rollout, configure the airplane appropriately, and make a Go! decision. Anything look amiss? Full stop.
 
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My last go around was May of 2006, unless you count when GRR told me to go around last summer because someone thought they saw a groundhog on the runway.
Domenick said:
I don't do touch and goes. I thought they were stupid and dangerous when I was in training and have seen nothing to change my mind since.

Want to practice your approaches--do a low approach/go-around.
Want to practice landings--do a touch and go.
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What?
 
If both of your main gear cross the centerline and you aren't able to correct, I would suggest that's a good time to abort. But every situation is different.
 
Curious - has the attitude that T&Gs are an unnecessary risk been around a long time? I ask because I don’t remember hearing anything about it back when I was training in the mid 90s. But then again internet arguing was still in its infancy in those days, so perhaps I simply wasn’t exposed to it. :)

Not saying the attitude is right or wrong - just curious if it’s always been out there.
 
kayoh190 said:
Curious - has the attitude that T&Gs are an unnecessary risk been around a long time?
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They don't seem much more dangerous than landings. The typical runway is comically huge for the 152/172/182 kind of aircraft anyways.
 
Yeow! You guys are nervous for TNG's. Exact OPPOSITE here ... have turned a full stop into a GO several times for coyotes and once for an AC off frequency that attempted an intersection departure after I touched down (lift and side step).

Our flight reviews in my area ALWAYS include these scenarios AND multiple loss of engine scenarios that might be considered extreme for some. Lots of power off spot landing as well ...
 
Not a big fan of touch and goes in complex aircraft. Too many guys have gotten things mixed up and out of sequence and had bad outcomes.
 
steingar said:
Not a big fan of touch and goes in complex aircraft. Too many guys have gotten things mixed up and out of sequence and had bad outcomes.
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I won't do a T&G in the Bo. I did one once, and ate up way too much runway verifying the flap handle, and resetting the trim that I decided that a stop and go or taxi back is much more prudent.
 
I won't do them on short runways in my mooney, but 5000 feet or more, I will.
 
No touch and go is my basic rule - I won't take the extra risk in a complex aircraft, and I rarely fly fixed-gear. If the runway is long enough, I might consider it for a fixed-gear plane. Of course, if safety dictates an exception can be made.
 
See I dislike stop and goes myself. I think the one thing that keeps a T&G reasonable is that you aren't spending runway coming to a full stop then accelerating back to flying speed. I guess if you have like 10,000' to work with... sure? And it really doesn't teach you much either. Essentially you are doing a normal landing with a normal intersection departure. All you save is a few moments of taxi back.

A T&G teaches you to control the airplane well through the reconfiguration and transition back to take off. Its a procedure you might have to do in an emergency some day and for that it has airmanship value. All IMO.

-G
 
Our club lost a 7AC on a 4,000' runway he landed on the numbers and ran off the end of the runway. If you are a little fast just how much runway do you fly over before you go around, many have landed half or more way down a runway and smoked the brakes trying to stop. You can't land on the numbers at the far end of the runway like our 7AC did and expect to stop, anytime things do not look right go around airplanes fly better than they drive on the ground.
 
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wsuffa said:
No touch and go is my basic rule - I won't take the extra risk in a complex aircraft,
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Stupid question time. Are touch and goes harder on complex aircraft? Such as excess wear on the gear extension motors and such?
 
Pi1otguy said:
Stupid question time. Are touch and goes harder on complex aircraft? Such as excess wear on the gear extension motors and such?
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The thought is there is "too much" going on.

Pushing in mixture - you're OK to do a TnG.
Pushing prop forward - you're OK to do a TnG.
Adjusting trim - you're OK to do a TnG.
Retracting flaps - you're OK to do a TnG.
Carb heat off - you're OK to do a TnG.
Landing gear switch - Danger Will Robinson - you will certainly die!!!!
 
I’m surprised there’s so much momentum against touch and go’s here. I’ve never considered them a threat to safety and have never encountered a situation where practicing them caused an accident. Botched go arounds are more of a threat IMO.
 
In the Mooney it's more like a touch, roll, and go. It takes 10 seconds or so to get the trim and flaps back to takeoff before the go part. But, I don't consider it dangerous provided a long enough runway.
 
Bill Jennings said:
In the Mooney it's more like a touch, roll, and go.
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T&Gs are normal ops in military flying but the Navy saw a need to specify roll and go training about 20 years ago. It moved the decision point down the runway and focused on aborting the rollout. I’m not sure if they still do it.
 
Pi1otguy said:
Stupid question time. Are touch and goes harder on complex aircraft? Such as excess wear on the gear extension motors and such?
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How would it be any different for a full stop landing? Many people have accidentally hit the gear switch instead of the flap switch, dropping the plane on the ground. I say "don't do that", but there's no way I could possibly mistake my flaps and gear, so I guess I won't throw stones.
 
Salty said:
How would it be any different for a full stop landing? Many people have accidentally hit the gear switch instead of the flap switch, dropping the plane on the ground. I say "don't do that", but there's no way I could possibly mistake my flaps and gear, so I guess I won't throw stones.
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I don't think I would confuse these, but hey, sometimes Schiznits happens.

Capture.JPG
 
I'm glad I have a giant handle looking thingy between the seats for flaps and a round, wheely looking thingy on the panel for gear...
 
Salty said:
I won't throw stones
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It's fine to throw stones. Crap can happen to anyone, but an obviously stupid mistake as a result of complacency or a failure to actually comprehend a checklist should be called out.. to me some of these "can happen to anyone" mistakes are on the level of the same people who slam on the gas instead of the brakes when they are trying to stop, or get out of the car when it is still running and in gear.. or people who jaywalk into traffic
 
Bill Jennings said:
In the Mooney it's more like a touch, roll, and go. It takes 10 seconds or so to get the trim and flaps back to takeoff before the go part. But, I don't consider it dangerous provided a long enough runway.
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What would you do if just prior to touchdown you saw a (pick your favorite obstacle) enter and park midfield on a short runway?
 
idahoflier said:
What would you do if just prior to touchdown you saw a (pick your favorite obstacle) enter and park midfield on a short runway?
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Just prior to touchdown? Go throttle up enough to arrest descent and climb a little and step sideways, while using a Popeye strong forearm to hold the nose down (have to push hella hard!), while I use the right hand to get the trim to neutral, the flaps up to takeoff, the cowl flaps open, then fully power up and depart the runway area.
 
There is inherent pressure to "hurry and clean up the plane" while you're rolling down a runway at 50mph. Sometimes people grab the gear handle instead of the flap handle, and sometimes there is not enough weight on the squat switches to prevent the gear-up. Pilots sometimes do funny things under the hot glare of a CFI.

I only do stop-and-goes in complex trainers. It's probably a negligible or even placebo effect, but I don't want to explain to the FAA why we geared up on a touch-n-go either. :D
 
Bill Jennings said:
Just prior to touchdown? Go throttle up enough to arrest descent and climb a little and step sideways, while using a Popeye strong forearm to hold the nose down (have to push hella hard!), while I use the right hand to get the trim to neutral, the flaps up to takeoff, the cowl flaps open, then fully power up and depart the runway area.
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Sounds good to me (except maybe apply full throttle?)... I have 0 Mooney time, electric trim? Can you trim with your hands like Piper's?
 
idahoflier said:
Sounds good to me (except maybe apply full throttle?)... I have 0 Mooney time, electric trim? Can you trim with your hands like Piper's?
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The J lands at nearly full nose up trim, so going full power makes it a really hard push to keep the nose down. It's been a while since I've done it, I may play with it at altitude and give it another go. It does have electric trim, but spinning the wheel is much faster. Two or three quick flicks of the wheel gets most of the pressure off.
 
Note the pilot attempts to steer the airplane like a car, i. e. with the ailerons. I keep seeing/reading accidents like this due to too much driving experience and not recognizing the needed rudder control inputs for aircraft. Flight instructors should emphasize the difference - and I am not one.
 
Boone said:
I’m surprised there’s so much momentum against touch and go’s here. I’ve never considered them a threat to safety and have never encountered a situation where practicing them caused an accident. Botched go arounds are more of a threat IMO.
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I’m not against T&Gs either but the gear needs to be retracted each time in the pattern for good habitat transfer. ;)
 
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