unsafervguy
En-Route
had the 2R emergency slide depart the aircraft at 1000ft in an A-321 about a year ago. returned to airport for an overweight landing.
When have you declared an emergency?
- Thread starter mandm
- Start date
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,250
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
Sure, and then I'll stop milking this dead cow. But those folks presumably were less than proficient, IE, not proficient enough to safely operate a twin. There was the 310 guy in Vegas who over flew a good airport and, from what we knew, didn't feather or secure the dead engine.. seemingly let his speed decay while trying to make it to a further airport until the plane stopped flying, sounding almost 'too calm' on the radio
Any plane will bite you operated outside of your skills. The difference is, you can set your personal minimum in a cherokee and say "I won't fly if winds are over 12 knots" or whatever. In a twin, you might be suddenly presented with a situation that will require optimum proficiency. Cherokee engine out you pitch for Vg and mush it down somewhere, hopefully a road or even an airport. The twin on the other hand will ask a lot from you. But even in a twin the option to retard both throttles and slow to somewhere above stall, find a good spot, and mush it down always exists. A Duchess / Seminole / Seneca / Aztec / Baron / Travelair don't stall significantly faster than comparable singles
But there's no panacea. One of the coolest planes out there, the SkyMaster, sought to solve the whole Vmc roll issue and instead found people taking off without both engines running and balling that up as well.
Oldmanb777
Line Up and Wait
A few. I have to say, none were terribly exciting. Engine shut down, loss of pressurization, loss of hydraulics etc. But the most common were not really defined as emergencies. MIN fUEL, those were the most common. actual declaration of emergency fuel status, now that one really gets attention. But it happens. So since we are on this subject.........What is the best part of and why you don't want to hesitate in declaring an emergency? Simply........The PIC has the ultimate authority to do what ever he/she thinks is the safest course of action. No one can question that decision. They can try, but its simply," I believed it was the safest course of action at the time PEROID!" End of discussion!Think of it as a get out of jail card. If you "think" you are in jeopardy, (you probably are) DON'T hesitate to declare an emergency!
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Shades of Avianca 52
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Good way to overtemp some turbines, though, which could result in bigger problems.
schmookeeg
En-Route
I agree with you and have the same instinct, but there are no stats to back it up with unfortunately, so us twin pilots are gonna get sneered at by singles, and they will get away with it.
It's worth it to me and that's all that matters.
Maxnr
Line Up and Wait
I have never actually said "Mayday" or "Declaring an emergency", however, I have had a few. I once had back to back emergencies on successive flights 30 days and 650 miles apart.
Back in the day, I was the Air Crash Rescue Chief assigned to Beach Army Hospital at Ft Wolters, TX. I had four Hueys and not enough people to fly them. Needed a copilot. I was sent a high time Cobra pilot that had a new Inst Rating and zero cloud time. Ft Wolters was closing. The lab at the hospital was gone and my weekly mission was to fly all lab samples to San Antonio. Off we went into the clouds. Routine IFR start to finish. We started in on the Bandera 6 Arrival around the LBJ ranch to expect a localizer approach. Pilots and Approach/Twr had a long understood deal, that we would miss, transition to special VFR along Loop 410 for a mile and hang a right into T22, Charles Kelly Heliport at Brook Army Med Center. Piece of cake with 500 & 2 WX. New guy "loaner" pilot on the controls.
Then, I saw the Master Caution light come on. Ho hum. we had been transferring fuel from our Aux tanks and an advisory light usually told us to shut off the pump when empty. But I had just done that. The Low Xmsn Oil Press was illuminated instead. I told TWR that this was to be a full stop, not a missed. Then TWR asked "Why?" I replied " I got a light." Twr then asked "What Light?" I fessed up. Not concerned, Gauge was still indicating pressure and XMSNs are tested for 45 minutes dry. Twr asked "Gonna declare?" I said "Oh all right, yeah."
Then I got concerned. Copilot was both diving out of the approach and 30 deg left of the localizer. Still in the klag. I did NOT take the controls, but said "The terrain under us is rolling hills and it's an aircraft grave yard."
His experience then kicked in. I called "Lights. Continue." He asked "where?" I said "2 o'clock." We landed ok.
Thirty days or so later and I had reported to my new assignment at Lawson AAF, Ft Benning. I was scheduled for the new guy check ride in a UH-1. First T.O. and 100' up and lost hydraulic control pressure. Planted it in the brush in the overrun area. Two emergencies in two flights.
Back in the day, I was the Air Crash Rescue Chief assigned to Beach Army Hospital at Ft Wolters, TX. I had four Hueys and not enough people to fly them. Needed a copilot. I was sent a high time Cobra pilot that had a new Inst Rating and zero cloud time. Ft Wolters was closing. The lab at the hospital was gone and my weekly mission was to fly all lab samples to San Antonio. Off we went into the clouds. Routine IFR start to finish. We started in on the Bandera 6 Arrival around the LBJ ranch to expect a localizer approach. Pilots and Approach/Twr had a long understood deal, that we would miss, transition to special VFR along Loop 410 for a mile and hang a right into T22, Charles Kelly Heliport at Brook Army Med Center. Piece of cake with 500 & 2 WX. New guy "loaner" pilot on the controls.
Then, I saw the Master Caution light come on. Ho hum. we had been transferring fuel from our Aux tanks and an advisory light usually told us to shut off the pump when empty. But I had just done that. The Low Xmsn Oil Press was illuminated instead. I told TWR that this was to be a full stop, not a missed. Then TWR asked "Why?" I replied " I got a light." Twr then asked "What Light?" I fessed up. Not concerned, Gauge was still indicating pressure and XMSNs are tested for 45 minutes dry. Twr asked "Gonna declare?" I said "Oh all right, yeah."
Then I got concerned. Copilot was both diving out of the approach and 30 deg left of the localizer. Still in the klag. I did NOT take the controls, but said "The terrain under us is rolling hills and it's an aircraft grave yard."
His experience then kicked in. I called "Lights. Continue." He asked "where?" I said "2 o'clock." We landed ok.
Thirty days or so later and I had reported to my new assignment at Lawson AAF, Ft Benning. I was scheduled for the new guy check ride in a UH-1. First T.O. and 100' up and lost hydraulic control pressure. Planted it in the brush in the overrun area. Two emergencies in two flights.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
So did they declare you a Jinx and reassign you??
IMO Tower shouldn't have wasted the time asking you if you were gonna declare. The should have simply asked you fuel and souls on board, pulled the crash phone and got the trucks rolling.
Maxnr
Line Up and Wait
At the time, we were within the apt boundries at about 100' and they did roll the equipment. All that did was to block my air taxi to the ramp with big fire trucks. I recall telling twr that if the fire truck didn't move and this crate quit (four foot hover) the taxi way would be blocked. Twr said its a major taxi way and he got the trucks out of the way.So did they declare you a Jinx and reassign you??
As I said; the base closed.
I honestly can't recall what I said over the radio but don't believe I actually said mayday or emergency.... but it was implied......
Large airport (ILM runway 24), long taxi in a rental 172, with extended wait before release
Climbing out only a few hundred feet the engine stumbled.... long runway so just pushed and landed straight ahead. The engine recovered and seemed to run just fine for the taxi back to the ramp
I was a newly minted PPL and my "copilot" was a student pilot friend from the school...and I was not about to fly that plane till it was checked. An instructor from the school came and picked us up in a different plane, and later the school flew their mechanic down, and the report I got was that he found nothing wrong.... they never really told me anything more. In hind sight now my personal guess is fouled plugs from failing to lean on the ground. I kinda feel like an idiot about it now.... and feel bad in a way for the flight school since they paid a lot to recover us and the plane and never asked me for an extra dime.
Large airport (ILM runway 24), long taxi in a rental 172, with extended wait before release
Climbing out only a few hundred feet the engine stumbled.... long runway so just pushed and landed straight ahead. The engine recovered and seemed to run just fine for the taxi back to the ramp
I was a newly minted PPL and my "copilot" was a student pilot friend from the school...and I was not about to fly that plane till it was checked. An instructor from the school came and picked us up in a different plane, and later the school flew their mechanic down, and the report I got was that he found nothing wrong.... they never really told me anything more. In hind sight now my personal guess is fouled plugs from failing to lean on the ground. I kinda feel like an idiot about it now.... and feel bad in a way for the flight school since they paid a lot to recover us and the plane and never asked me for an extra dime.
Pinecone
En-Route
Better to over temp than to hit the ground.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
That could be one of the bigger problems.
Glad everything is ok, we learn and hopefully we remember and do better next time. That’s a good flight school to be there for you.
Maxnr
Line Up and Wait
Luv, that's rather cold to label me a jinx. We were going through a nation wide base closing and reduction. Lots of turmoil for lots of people. Our next door neighbors at Carswell AFB also got the ax. Do you also label them as jinxes too? C'mon, say you're sorry.So did they declare you a Jinx and reassign you??
Some years ago, I made a list of all events that could be called an emergency. I checked my logs and dug through old incident reports. Criteria was: Could the flight continue? Was there a procedure in the emergency check list? Could the A/C make another flight? Mostly RW, a couple of FW, no gliders. I edited the list harshly and deleted stuff like losing the AP in a Barron. I wound up with 25 events. All ended with safe arrivals. Including one that happened in a combat zone. Wrote off the "Iron Butterfly." (Nose art) Don't know how to count that one.
I did the math and I averaged about 970 hrs between emergencies. It's likely better than that because the Army was really bad at under recording pilot's flight time.
The Sikorsky 76 produced the most items on my list. Its my high time A/C. Mostly unsafe gear indications. Think about it. How could you possibly hurt yourself landing gear up in a helo? However, there were a few epic events.
One evening, The FAA presented me the Wright Brothers Master Pilot certificate and plaque at a meeting of my EAA chapter.
I never ever said "Mayday".
Last edited:
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not cold at all, it was pure punchline, hence the
. But I can see how maybe it could be perceived as ridicule disguised as jest. I can assure you it wasn't. I will extend an apology based on that. Emoji's can help substitute for the in person communication of voice inflection and body language missing from the internet forums, but they don't always. My perception of you, based on the contributions you have made in other threads, is a good pilot. I think I am to, but I do wear the label of being voted Class Clown. I like gotta live up to it.
Last edited:
francisco collazos
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2021
- Messages
- 468
- Display Name
Display name:
ciscovet
Like you had no flaps or partial flaps? What is the protocol to land with no flaps and landing distance?
Maxnr
Line Up and Wait
Magnetic chip detectors. I and about all of the pilots I knew have had one or more (or many) of these warning lights illuminate in flight. Procedure is to carefully set your coffee down, pick up the emergency check list and run it. The detectors do differ among aircraft. Basic ones are bayonet mounted and safety wired. They have a magnet and electrical contacts to light a bulb on the panel. I have never seen one of these in any of the GA fleet. Except for military T-41Bs and T-42s which are basically Skyhawks and Barrons. The high end ones have "fuzzbusters" for nuisance alarms to burn of normal metal fuzz that accumulates. The C.L. instructs you to pull the engine chip detector circuit breaker, then reset it. Once. If the light comes back on, yell Mayday and land as soon possible/immediately. Chip lights are common when a new or OHed engine is installed. Not uncommon to get a light in the first couple of hours.
Normally, chip plugs are regularly pulled, inspected and wiped clean by the A&P. I have seen aftermarket chip plugs advertised for GA aircraft.
Ron, I feel your pain.
Normally, chip plugs are regularly pulled, inspected and wiped clean by the A&P. I have seen aftermarket chip plugs advertised for GA aircraft.
Ron, I feel your pain.
Sluggo63
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,927
- Display Name
Display name:
Sluggo63
We had partial flaps. What happened was, during flap extension, the flaps were coming out unequally between the inboard and outboard TE flaps. They were symmetric, which is good, just different (if I remember correctly, the max difference is 3 degrees). So basically, I think it happened when we were extending the flaps from either 15 to 20 or 20 to 25, I can't remember exactly. When the airplane senses that difference, it automatically stops flap movement. We did a go around and got vectored for a box pattern to give us time to run the checklists and set up for the partial flap landing. So, basically we landed with partial flaps at a higher speed. I remember it was a pretty crappy night in Birmingham, UK with a wet runway and gusty winds, but we were light enough with Autobrakes MAX and max reverse that we had plenty of stopping distance, even with the increased Vapp/Vref.
After we got on the ground, we wrote it up and the maintenance guy there ran the flaps up and down several times on the ground and signed it off. We took off on our way to Paris, and sure enough, the exact same thing happened extending the flaps on approach at CDG. I'm guessing on the ground it was good, but with the airloads, one set wasn't extending as quickly as the other causing the differential.
It's really hard to get into a position were you can't get some sort of flaps out on a big airplane. There's multiple systems to extend them both hydraulically or electrically. We do practice zero flap landings in the sim, but that would be a rare occasion to actually have to do a real no-flap approach.