When do you write your Flight Plans?

[Snaggletooth]

When do you guys normally write your Flight Plans? The Day before the Flight based on Forecasted weather, or the Day of the Flight based on current Weather?

 

[Jeanie]

About 10 mins before I fly - for a flight plan but if you mean a Nav Log then I'd get it ready for the most part the day before and then fill in the blanks the day of, after the first briefing. I call while I'm having breakfast and before I go to the airport.. if there is anything iffy or if I need reassurance that the Wx is changing in a good way I call for an abbreviated briefing before I depart... HTH.

 

[Snaggletooth]

Yeah, Nav Log is what I ment. Thanks for the help!

 

[ScottM]

When do you normally write your Flight Plans? The Day before the Flight based on Forecasted weather, or the Day of the Flight based on current Weather?

Depending on the length of the flight I may start weeks before I go. Especially if it some place entirely new.

But for local flights or XCs that are only a few hundred miles it is usually done just a few hours before I go.

I should also add that I no longer do hand written plans. I use DUATS Golden Eagle. having a PC based flight planning package makes things go much faster. The software will do my Navlog for me.

 

[poadeleted20]

For Student Pilots preparing cross-country flight logs for training, I generally teach to prepare the outline the night before with checkpoints, courses, distances, frequencies, etc, and then to finish the final timing and heading data on the day of the flight when they get useful wind data.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

For Student Pilots preparing cross-country flight logs for training, I generally teach to prepare the outline the night before with checkpoints, courses, distances, frequencies, etc, and then to finish the final timing and heading data on the day of the flight when they get useful wind data.

This works for me too, even though I have my certificate.

 

[Tim Abbott]

I would think the night before would be the way to go as to not feel overwhelmed in any way the day of the flight. I'm sure y'all have all the nav logs you can handle, but I found one for free here's the link:

http://www.firstflight.com/extras/FFnavlog.pdf

I've used these to practice on my sim as it's possible to use a sectional, etc to execute a flight.

Tim

 

[ScottM]

For Student Pilots preparing cross-country flight logs for training, I generally teach to prepare the outline the night before with checkpoints, courses, distances, frequencies, etc, and then to finish the final timing and heading data on the day of the flight when they get useful wind data.

Generally that is good advice. But I think in today's world one may need to think ahead on long XC a bit more. This would be due to the lack of easy access to sectionals. If you wait to the night before and then realize that you are flying past a sectional boundary you take the risk of getting to the airport and them either not having the one you need or not even carrying sectionals at all. For a lot of people these days they have to order charts.

For students or certificated (that means licensed, for Ed) you should at least check to see what charts you will need to for the flight well before your proposed departure.

 

[EppyGA]

Dustin,

While I was training I would sit down the day before and draw it out on my sectional and do a preliminary nav log. The next morning I would then get a briefing and complete my log with the current weather data. I did get a duat(s) account (not sure which right now) and as an AOPA member also used the AOPA Flight Planner.

Even with my certificate I still do it pretty much the same way.

 

[Trapper John]

Generally that is good advice. But I think in today's world one may need to think ahead on long XC a bit more.

And that's why I think using sectionals for planning is a good thing, even if they take a little effort to get these days.. There's just something about physically drawing the course line on a sectional that lights up brain parts to register landmarks, terrain and all kinds of other good stuff that I think are easy to miss using computer assistance. Plus, it's kind of neat to stash the old charts in a box and pull them out years later along with logs to bring back a lot of neat memories.


Trapper John

 

[Snaggletooth]

Thanks for all the input guys! Just what I was looking for!
I have the Flight Plan for my long dual XC pretty much done. I just need to add the final heading calculations and it will be done.

 

[Snaggletooth]

There's just something about physically drawing the course line on a sectional that lights up brain parts to register landmarks, terrain and all kinds of other good stuff that I think are easy to miss using computer assistance.

It's funny you say that because after writing up a few Flight Plans, I've found that the Dead Reckoning part of the XC Flights are just as fun as the Flight it's self! Drawing a line from Airport to Airport, marking your Check Points, Studying your route of flight, Writing up you Nav Log, Ect, Ect.

Boy!! I can't wait to write up the next one!!

 

[Trapper John]

I just need to add the final heading calculations and it will be done.

And don't forget that actual winds are frequently different from the briefing you get before you go. Being able to calculate the changes in your head, or at least with an E6B (not a calculator) will let you adjust and not get flustered when your neat and tidy plan gets knocked off kilter. Planning is a great thing, but being able to adjust is just as important.


Trapper John

 

[EppyGA]

And don't forget that actual winds are frequently different from the briefing you get before you go. Being able to calculate the changes in your head, or at least with an E6B (not a calculator) will let you adjust and not get flustered when your neat and tidy plan gets knocked off kilter. Planning is a great thing, but being able to adjust is just as important.


Trapper John

Great points!! Quite likely the DPE might ask you to prove what the actual winds are so you need to be ready to spin the wheel.

 

[Trapper John]

Thanks for all the input guys! Just what I was looking for!
I have the Flight Plan for my long dual XC pretty much done. I just need to add the final heading calculations and it will be done.

I like to use the old fashioned forms that say, "Don't forget to close your flight plan." Your instructor will appreciate that, I guarantee it...


Trapper John

 

[Cap'n Jack]

What did your CFI say about the LORAN?

 

[Jeanie]

Also, Dustin, if you are OK w/ actually writing on the chart as you fly along you can write the times down as you pass each point as well and estimate the time to the next one - if you don't see it close to the est. time then you'll have an idea that you might be off course and by how long and be able to estimate where you are...
Also, don't use RED ink on the charts if you will be flying at night - the red lights usually used in a cockpit for night flying blank out the lines and notes and there you are w/ "invisible" ink Ask me how I know ....Ha.
I had trouble w/ the preprinted navlogs because of all the tiny square and my old eyes - I wear bifocals.... so I just write what I need in bigger letters on notebook paper and stick it on a clipboard - that way I have room to write myself notes and freqs from Center if I"m on flight following/traffic advisories and whatever else comes up.
Have a great X/C and keep posting.

 

[Snaggletooth]

Thanks for all the tips guys!

Cap'n Jack: I'll let you know when I see him this week.

 

[rottydaddy]

Seems only logical, IMHO, to fill in everything but the cruise alts, actual mag headings to fly and the time/fuel figures whenever you want... but the rest of it is best "plugged in" as close to wheels-up time as possible.

Of course, the farther ahead you make your plan, the more likely it will be that wx prevents you from going that way... so a Plan B is a good idea. Back when I was doing my student XCs, I always made another plan in the opposite direction, just in case.

When I made my "big trip" from the NYC area to New Orleans and back, in a C172, I spent weeks planning it, and made up three routes: straight line, western, and eastern. I planned the fuel stops very conservatively, so as not to get a nasty surprise when I finally plugged in the winds.


I tried a few different nav logs starting out, then decided to make my own, which folds in half and fits nicely on my kneeboard. It's pretty standard, but laid out just right for me.

On one side is the "pre-flight" side, where I use the wx info to make estimates of heading, time, and fuel for each part of the flight between heading changes, before departure. This is the part that is used primarily to make the go/no go decision, based on time and/or fuel. There's a w/b worksheet there, too, as well as an altitude/power/fuel burn section.

The "working" side is the side that I follow in flight, and where I update everything as I go. This has rows for entering waypoints between heading changes, usually 20-50 nm apart. There's room there, also, for notes on airports, etc.

I eventually got into the habit of not filling in (on the "working" side) the estimated groundspeed/time past the first cruise portion, as that usually goes out the window anyway as you go along. Better to figure out the groundspeed based on the last waypoint-to-waypoint time, then put that down as the estimate for the next portion.

You may still be making big heading changes enroute, though, so it's good to have the pre-flight figures there on the "back" side to give you a rough idea, at least, of your new heading, even if you're sure the wind is not quite as forecast.

Even if you don't want to bother figuring out angles and speeds in flight, that works well enough, provided you can see well enough to confirm your track by pilotage.

So, in short, plot the course whenever you want, but don't take off with yesterday's weather info, and don't cling blindly to yesterday's groundspeed figures as you go along.

 

[silver-eagle]

Depending on the trip, I'll do a navlog days ahead. I've used the ones supplied by the FBO until I found these. The last half hour before the flight is spent getting the latest data and updating the log. Even with TAFs being 36 hours, I wouldn't depend on them (if you can find one!).

 

[Dr. O]

Just a comment on internet based flight planning, DUAT's, etc. I use them also..
After loading the plane and just before starting up I pop back into the pilots lounge, call FS and ask for any flight restrictions along my route...
With these scumbag politicians scurrying around like cockroaches whilst grubbing for money, you never know when one of them will pop up at the last minute... If you don't have it on the briefing's audio tape that you checked, the FAA lawyers WILL get you sooner or later...

denny-o

 

[dmccormack]

I'll practice with pencil, sectionals, and plotter from time to time looking over a new or different route.

For IFR trips, I use the AOPA Flight Planner. For VFR, it really depends where I'm going, as VFR is usually pilotage from A to B.

Edit: No matter how much internet based flight planning/ weather checking I do, I always call Flight Service and get a brief on the way to the airport when flying IFR.

 

[Snaggletooth]

Thanks again guys!

 

[RogerT]

And that's why I think using sectionals for planning is a good thing, even if they take a little effort to get these days.. There's just something about physically drawing the course line on a sectional that lights up brain parts to register landmarks, terrain and all kinds of other good stuff that I think are easy to miss using computer assistance. Plus, it's kind of neat to stash the old charts in a box and pull them out years later along with logs to bring back a lot of neat memories.
Trapper John

This has always been my approach. I don't think I've ever used a computer
generated flight plan. I use DUATS and ADDS for the weather picture. But
I still draw a pencil line on the chart and go over it with a yellow highlighter.
Then I circle things of concern .. MOAs .. towers .. restricted areas ..
with a pink one. I look up restriced area floors and such and write them
by the name and highlight them in pink. I write times and such right on
the chart.

RT

 

[EdFred]

Fli-..pla-...

What? Huh?

Plans are only made to be changed! Of course, that's after you get your private certificate. As a student, I would draw the lines on the sectionals, place bold dots where the checkpoints where, and measure out the distances the day or night before, and put them in my nav log. Then I'd get the winds right before I would depart, and fill in all my times, and double check to make sure that I had enough fuel for the trip. The last time I did any of that was when I was an IR student. Now, with 6+ hours of fuel on board, I fly till I gotta pee.

 

[dmccormack]

Fli-..pla-...

What? Huh?

Plans are only made to be changed! Of course, that's after you get your private certificate. As a student, I would draw the lines on the sectionals, place bold dots where the checkpoints where, and measure out the distances the day or night before, and put them in my nav log. Then I'd get the winds right before I would depart, and fill in all my times, and double check to make sure that I had enough fuel for the trip. The last time I did any of that was when I was an IR student. Now, with 6+ hours of fuel on board, I fly till I gotta pee.

Do you fly IFR?

 

[EdFred]

Do you fly IFR?

Yep. /G

Here was my last flight:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N727DS/history/20100213/1827Z/9D9/KSRQ

I had an hour of fuel left when I landed.

 

[dmccormack]

Yep. /G

Here was my last flight:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N727DS/history/20100213/1827Z/9D9/KSRQ

I had an hour of fuel left when I landed.

Then you spend some time on a flight plan -- at the very least submitting basic data, altitude, and route.

 

[EdFred]

Then you spend some time on a flight plan -- at the very least submitting basic data, altitude, and route.

If you want to call it that. I didn't really do any calculations until I was in the air, and ran the tips dry. I had 3 fuel stops picked out if the winds were not as forecast, but as far as a nav log goes, I haven't done one of those (for me) in 6 years. Obviously did them with my student.

 

[Ted]

Now, with 6+ hours of fuel on board, I fly till I gotta pee.

I thought that's what empty Gatorade bottles were for?

The biggest problem I used to have with XCs was making sure I had enough charts. Most FBOs seem to always be out of the chart you need, and flying without proper charts would be bad. So to that point, you want to make sure you're going to have the proper charts. That is until you get something like the AirChart atlas, which has the whole country in two books (VFR) or one book (IFR). This you may want to start looking at a week in advance to give sufficient time to order new charts from Sporty's or your favorite supplier.

As a student, or going to a new area (especially one with significantly different terrain than you may be used to), it's good to spend some more time on planning and talk to people familiar with the area. A few weeks back I went to New Mexico, Utah, Arizona, and California area for the first time in a plane. Altitudes are different, weather is different, etc., so I spent more time on the plan and I also had some pretty strong restrictions for what I was willing to take off into once I got out here. Keep in mind this is in a FIKI twin (non-turbo) and I have XM and 650 hours. Once you've got some more cross country experience the time goes down significantly, and of course it also depends on how marginal the weather is.

For most of my trips these days, planning is done within an hour of takeoff, unless I have time the night before and have a good idea of what the weather will be, in which case I might put my flight plans on file ahead of time.

 

[EdFred]

I thought that's what empty Gatorade bottles were for?

Funny thing is on that last trip, I had to pee around Knoxville. I knew there were some of those gel pack things in the seat back, go I reach behind, pull a couple out. Even though I was on top in the clear with visibility to Oklahoma, I looked at the bag, my lack of an autopilot and realized there is no way I'm going to maintain heading/altitude while trying to expunge. It was going to be a mess in the cockpit, or ATC wondering what I was doing.

New rules:
Aviate
Navigate
Communicate
Alleviate

The biggest problem I used to have with XCs was making sure I had enough charts.

That was a problem for me too. But that's all been solved with the EFB. Every chart for the US is in it, and it's velcroed right next to the 430. The only paper in the plane is a scratch pad for reroutes, frequency changes, and wx information.

 

[Ted]

That was a problem for me too. But that's all been solved with the EFB. Every chart for the US is in it, and it's velcroed right next to the 430. The only paper in the plane is a scratch pad for reroutes, frequency changes, and wx information.

I like having the paper charts for the sectionals and en routes, but love having the charts electronic. The AirChart system for the VFR and IFR charts has been great for me.