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Jim K

Jim K

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
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5,970
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Display name:
Richard Digits
Got 25 hours on my bird since they put the engine back on. We're leaving on a big trip, which is why I was pushing to put hours on and do the first oil change. Good news is screen & filter were clean. Bad news is we found several mistakes made by the mechanic who hung the engine. The work visible with the top cowl off looked good, so we didn't take the bottom off until today and found several things that were not safetied, but this was the worst:

20220610_111904.jpg

20220610_111924.jpg

It appears he simply forgot to tighten the bolts on the alternator. The back one fell off and was in the cowl, the one that should've been safetied was holding on by three threads, and the one still on the left side was rubbing the belt. It was making power just fine, probably because the weight of the alternator was hanging by the belt. How it didn't fall off is a miracle.
 
Jim K said:
Got 25 hours on my bird since they put the engine back on. We're leaving on a big trip, which is why I was pushing to put hours on and do the first oil change. Good news is screen & filter were clean. Bad news is we found several mistakes made by the mechanic who hung the engine. The work visible with the top cowl off looked good, so we didn't take the bottom off until today and found several things that were not safetied, but this was the worst:

View attachment 107656

View attachment 107657

It appears he simply forgot to tighten the bolts on the alternator. The back one fell off and was in the cowl, the one that should've been safetied was holding on by three threads, and the one still on the left side was rubbing the belt. It was making power just fine, probably because the weight of the alternator was hanging by the belt. How it didn't fall off is a miracle.
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Good thing you removed the cowl to look. I am sure you are checking the rest very closely
 
Good catch!

I was going to put a quick drain on my bird, but that would keep me from having to pull the lower cowl off. Over the last 8-9 oil changes I’ve always found something that could use attention or needed to be corrected which I wouldn’t have found if the lower cowl stayed on. Induction clamp, loose rivets on heat baffle, chaffing hose, etc.
 
Gary Ward said:
Good thing you removed the cowl to look. I am sure you are checking the rest very closely
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Yeah. Normally I do my own oil changes, but I took it to the shop because I wanted more sets of eyes on it. It's a good thing I did as there was some hardware involved and some fiddly little tools I don't own. Myself, the a&p doing the oil change, the ia/Dom, and another a&p all looked her over pretty close.

I am glad the engine went out to another shop....:eek:
 
Wow is all I can think of. How does one forget to tighten it up? Then I guess he or she does not believe in safety wire or cable.
I am in 37 hours so far on my oil, change it at 55-60 hours. I have a quick change oil drain but still remove the lower cowl each time. I usually pull the cowl in between oil changes like last night.

Luckily I don’t find anything loose so far, I have 410 hours on my new motor since July 2020. In 90 more hours my mags and alternator will need service. Just seemed like yesterday when the new motor went in.
I take the cowls off by my self so they come off pretty often.

Tonight right now. Got to get out of this chair and get to work.A2BDDD07-2C8C-4BC4-935A-CEE9D097768E.jpeg
 
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Jim K said:
Got 25 hours on my bird since they put the engine back on. We're leaving on a big trip, which is why I was pushing to put hours on and do the first oil change. Good news is screen & filter were clean. Bad news is we found several mistakes made by the mechanic who hung the engine. The work visible with the top cowl off looked good, so we didn't take the bottom off until today and found several things that were not safetied, but this was the worst:

View attachment 107656

View attachment 107657

It appears he simply forgot to tighten the bolts on the alternator. The back one fell off and was in the cowl, the one that should've been safetied was holding on by three threads, and the one still on the left side was rubbing the belt. It was making power just fine, probably because the weight of the alternator was hanging by the belt. How it didn't fall off is a miracle.
Click to expand...
If you haven’t already done it, hope you will send them a pic of that. Not so much out of anger, but so they can learn and hopefully not do it, or something similar again.
 
Frightening! Could be distraction induced error.
Check the bracket for cracks. Might want to remove it to get a good look.
 
Jim K said:
It appears he simply forgot to tighten the bolts on the alternator.
Click to expand...

Forgetting to tighten bolts has happened to me several times. Once on an alternator. Mechanic got distracted before tightening, did something else, then came back to the job.

I’m guessing it’s a common kind of maintenance induced failure.

Having someone else look it over sounds like a good practice.
 
USAF had a system where significant maintenance was designated with a
“Red X”. These require inspection and sign off by an individual with credentials to sign off the task.

Distractions and shift changes are prime culprits for omissions.

Some shops use the new guys to open and close ( like MASH?) and there have been instances of closing before the task is completed .

Compounding the issue is the is the practice of “ we’ll do the paperwork later”.
It may be the Tech did not consider the job finished and the airplane is out the door. It did happen to me. As the the late, great FAA guy Bill O’Brien would say
( paraphase ) “ With no Record Entries and the wheels 1inch off the ground BOTH
A&P and Pilot are subject to violations”.

Perhaps Bell can jump in with appropriate regs?
 
Not getting the whole story here.
Fess up, did you cheap out and only pay for the Basic Engine Install which includes "most fasteners checked for security, will try to ensure oil in sump, mags timed to within...5° of spec"?
I thought it was widely known you really need to buy the Deluxe Engine Install option these days.
 
buh buh cErTiFiEd eYEs. :rolleyes:

And in the interest of my 5th, I'll digress from expanding further. TETO.
 
Now I'm wondering if part of the reason for safety wire is to make the connection easy to inspect.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Oh snap! Standing by.
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20220611_143836.jpg

Sigh. Said alternator failed leaving Benton today. We were going ifr, so we turned around and went back. The airport manager is an a&p and fellow PA32 owner. He's down waiting for parts, so he took the alternator off of his own plane and loaned it to me to get me going. He and another a&p based there swapped it for me.

On the one hand I feel unlucky that my plane never fails to fail.

OTOH this would've likely happened in Nebraska if not today, so I guess I'm... lucky?

As @EdFred said....GA sucks, and also doesn't. Some of the best people I've ever met have been GA people.
 
Jim K said:
View attachment 107685

Sigh. Said alternator failed leaving Benton today. We were going ifr, so we turned around and went back. The airport manager is an a&p and fellow PA32 owner. He's down waiting for parts, so he took the alternator off of his own plane and loaned it to me to get me going. He and another a&p based there swapped it for me.

On the one hand I feel unlucky that my plane never fails to fail.

OTOH this would've likely happened in Nebraska if not today, so I guess I'm... lucky?

As @EdFred said....GA sucks, and also doesn't. Some of the best people I've ever met have been GA people.
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Sorry to read that Jim, glad you got it back on the ground safely. Good job.
That is a great AP you have there !
 
Well, of things that can go wrong, alternator is thankfully in the you’ve got time to sort it out column. Sorry about the bum luck. Assuming it came new/rebuilt with the engine, will they warranty it?
 
masloki said:
Well, of things that can go wrong, alternator is thankfully in the you’ve got time to sort it out column. Sorry about the bum luck. Assuming it came new/rebuilt with the engine, will they warranty it?
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No it was 20 years old, replaced at the last overhaul. It's been soaked in oil and then flopping around for 25 hours, in hindsight I should've expected it to not be long for the world.
 
Jim K said:
Got 25 hours on my bird since they put the engine back on. We're leaving on a big trip, which is why I was pushing to put hours on and do the first oil change. Good news is screen & filter were clean. Bad news is we found several mistakes made by the mechanic who hung the engine. The work visible with the top cowl off looked good, so we didn't take the bottom off until today and found several things that were not safetied, but this was the worst:

View attachment 107656

View attachment 107657

It appears he simply forgot to tighten the bolts on the alternator. The back one fell off and was in the cowl, the one that should've been safetied was holding on by three threads, and the one still on the left side was rubbing the belt. It was making power just fine, probably because the weight of the alternator was hanging by the belt. How it didn't fall off is a miracle.
Click to expand...


I’m not familiar with this exact application but every other alternator I have seen should have one long bolt through both of those holes. I would check your IPC and be sure you have the correct hardware.
 
Unless there's a spacer that has been completely omitted from the OP pictures, that would place unwanted heavy compression loads between the mounting tangs of the alternator.
 
I think the correct parts are ( were ) there. Cherokees typically use 2 bolts and a
“ floating” spacer. It looks like it also has the “optional” (?) joggled Link to connect to the Starter. I’m a fan of the Link as having seen the Bracket Bolts
torn from the Case is an ugly picture.

Many of the U-sharped mounting brackets are not symmetrical and can almost be installed in reverse. I think I saw some info detailing orientation. Too bad they were not marked.
 
Whitney said:
Yikes!

I would be checking every single nut and bolt if my plane.
Click to expand...

In my IndyCar mechanic days, we did a nut and bolt check on the entire chassis, suspension, engine, and gearbox before every practice day, qualifying run, or race.

It's not a bad idea to do the same on one's aircraft regularly, maybe during oil changes.
 
Whitney said: ↑
Yikes!

I would be checking every single nut and bolt if my plane.
Click to expand...


3393RP said:
In my IndyCar mechanic days, we did a nut and bolt check on the entire chassis, suspension, engine, and gearbox before every practice day, qualifying run, or race.

It's not a bad idea to do the same on one's aircraft regularly, maybe during oil changes.
Click to expand...

Same here, I built the motors and my crew would install the motors in my dragsters that I would drive. So it was standard operating procedure that I checked the car from front to back every pass before going down the drag strip. No one was insulted or annoyed, we all knew we needed each other to race safe.

Sometimes I miss that when it comes to my plane since my IA is not always at my hangar. I do make a point of putting on the cowl the next day when my eyes are fresh and not after a long day or night working on it.
It is ironic that I go from a 275mph car to a 120 mph plane and am more scared of the plane. I respect the plane more than I did the fast dragsters.

MVC-759S-1-2.jpg


MVC-758S-2.jpg
 
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Checking torque on fasteners can be bad for the Mechanically Declined.

I’ve seen a lot of valve cover gaskets over tightened where they squished out.
Overtightening clevis cable attach points can be an issue. There ARE connections meant to pivot.
 
Gary Ward said:
Same here, I built the motors and my crew would install the motors in my dragsters that I would drive. So it was standard operating procedure that I checked the car from front to back every pass before going down the drag strip. No one was insulted or annoyed, we all knew we needed each other to race safe.
Click to expand...

That's a TAD? Nice looking ride.

I know what you mean about safety. Crewing on the IndyCars and later a 420 MPH Bonneville streamliner that broke the Summers Brothers 45 year old land speed record required perfection. A mistake by me could kill my driver. That was a big responsibility.
 
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3393RP said:
That's a TAD? Nice looking ride.

I know what you mean about safety. Crewing on the IndyCars and later a 420 MPH Bonneville streamliner that broke the Summer's Brothers 45 year old land speed record required perfection. A mistake by me could kill my driver. That was a big responsibility.
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Thanks
For sure a huge responsibility. Cool stuff for sure. Indy what a city it is for racing, I can't believe you crewed on IndyCars. That is mega cool.
Later car, me driving.
MVC-077S-1.jpg

Old picture.
drag.jpg

Billet aluminum hemi block, heads and clutch, approx 3000hp.
Image018.jpg
 
@Gary Ward that top pic looks like Bowling Green. Raced and attended many a Buick GS Nationals there in the late 1990s early 2000s. Those covered stands are great.

Love the Winston pic, good memories.
 
Don't mean to be Debbie Downer, but posting the pictures in a thread titled "What's wrong with this picture"?

:)
 
I'm not sure which is more dangerous...but I think maybe tractor. Both need roll cages that are more than decorative.
 
Gary Ward said:
Thanks
Later car, me driving.

Billet aluminum hemi block, heads and clutch, approx 3000hp.
Click to expand...

You must have had good sponsors to pay for that billet block. The chips that are made during its fabrication result in the most expensive aluminum scrap ever made.

:D
 
Real racers turn corners. Left AND right. And race in the rain.

Just teasing.

My race car is slower than most airplanes in top speed. But it goes pretty quickly around corners
 
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