What's the deal with CFII's that don't want to fly IMC?

[EdFred]

My CFII had us fly in IMC as much as possible once I had the basics down solidly. He had a few thousand hours, was a career instructor, and had plenty of time in IMC from the right seat with a single six-pack. We managed to find conditions to get a few approaches to near-minimums, and some IMC with pretty good turbulence. Those were good confidence boosters, as well as reality checks. I passed the checkride right at 40 hours instrument time, with 7.5 actual.

And haven’t been IFR current for eight or nine years. The more I did it, the less comfortable I was being in IMC in a piston single, especially in California with mountains, and now in Florida with thunderstorms. Plus my mission is 100% flying for fun - I love the view from up there. Little joy for me in seeing the inside or tops of clouds, and I do have fun using pilotage.

Different missions. We use the plane to go places, and the last...oh...5 overnight or longer trips all involved some level of IMC. They wouldn't have happened without being current. Sometimes it's only 0.1 or 0.2 IMC on a 3.5 hour flight, and sometimes an approach, but the trips would be scrubbed if VFR only.

 

[jbarrass]

I look for a chance to get into imc with my instrument students. The common comment after is that it’s not like the foggles at all. My 172 has G5s on the left side so it can be a little stressful and my neck ends up sore, but it’s worth it for the student. I’ll ask ATC for a block altitude if that helps us stay in imc. It also allows student to do some maneuvering.
Actually I try to get some of the 3 hours required of primary students in actual if possible.

^^^ This.
I had 7 actual during IR training and 2.5 as a student. It helps.

IMHO, there are 2 things in flying that are much easier the 2nd time over the 1st.

Clouds. It's intuitive that you can't see, everybody is "ready" for that. However in IMC it's common to be able to see a little bit, but the clouts lie to you. A layer may look like a horizon, but be 45 degrees off. In and out of clouds, it's all over the place. After seeing it, it's much easier to look inside and trust the instruments.

Spins: The second is spins. Just plain fun once you've seen it, but the first time is terrifying.

That said, icing and CB are not to be challenged, they never lose.

 

[MajorTurbulence]

On my first IMC flight I got vertigo (the one and only time), I didn't lose control of the airplane or anything dramatic, but I was task saturated trying to keep wings level and I'm damn sure glad that the CFII was there.

On one of my earliest solo IFR flights post rating I got some vertigo as I entered the clouds. But I was more amused about the phenomenon, which I was fully prepared to handle by just using my training to get focused back on my scan. Obviously worked out and that experience, and my proper reaction, became a further confidence booster.

 

[brcase]

Not defending your CFI but some weather you should just avoid. What kind of WX is he avoiding?

My CFI was downright giddy when my long training dual flight was IFR which got us almost the entire flight in the soup and 3 real approaches. That was a valuable lesson. So I completely understand your feelings.

That would be me. I love the opportunity to train in actual conditions. But out west that is rare. If it is IMC it is usually below minimums, Thunderstorms or Icing.
I tell my students that for IFR flying out west in a most small single engine planes pretty much means we will train for 40 hours under the hood so you can fly for about a maximum of 2 minutes in the cloud for departures and some arrivals. But that 2 minutes frequently is the difference between going or waiting. More often the IR just allows VFR when it otherwise would be a very bad idea, ie. we have the option of going IMC/IFR/ shooting an approach if the VfR plan doesn't work out.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[MajorTurbulence]

There shouldn't be a need to "call in sick", but people sometimes get embarrassed over things like that. Maybe that explains it.

I might postulate that having anything suggestive of the possibility of an upper respiratory infection brewing, like a sore throat, might make a CFI or anyone a bit more risk averse if definitely going to deal with IMC as apposed to a VMC lesson.

 

[YooperMooney]

Just pick a day that has a decent cloud layer at 1000-1500 AGL and have fun with your approaches. When I lived in the northern Great lakes there would be a 1000' thick layer at 1500 AGL during the day almost every day.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I do see quite a bit of rating-with-no-actual, though. It was common in Colorado because of the weather but I see it sometimes here in NC too. The people I know who are in that situation seek out instructors for their first encounter.

Example was two weeks ago. Unfortunately not low enough for an approach, but a post-checkride 1st encounter with a client.

 

[PaulS]

There is one thing I just thought of that might cause some hesitation for CFIIs flying in IMC. Many CFIIs fly in customer aircraft, in which configurations are a many as there are customer aircraft. An unfamiliar cockpit of layout might cause some hesitation, along with equipment installed. I was lucky in that I got many IMC flights on ice days, near convection, the whole gambit. But I was flying rented, almost new Cirrus that were all configured the same way. The CFII had a bazillion hours in the planes and was very comfortable with them. Something to think about.

 

[midlifeflyer]

There is one thing I just thought of that might cause some hesitation for CFIIs flying in IMC. Many CFIIs fly in customer aircraft, in which configurations are a many as there are customer aircraft. An unfamiliar cockpit of layout might cause some hesitation, along with equipment installed. I was lucky in that I got many IMC flights on ice days, near convection, the whole gambit. But I was flying rented, almost new Cirrus that were all configured the same way. The CFII had a bazillion hours in the planes and was very comfortable with them. Something to think about.

That’s a valid point. I want my first foray into IMC in an owner aircraft to be after hood work but too often for the opposite reason.

 

[Feh]

So I took my first solo flight in IMC and it was pretty invigorating. Cloud deck at OVC004 taking off and marginal landing. Then coming back it was IFR. Minimums for me are IFR minimums at the moment.

In and out of the clouds but mostly VFR on top but hard IMC during the approach. i thanked my CFI that he wanted to go with me IMC if we could.

 

[Lndwarrior]

My cfi didn't want to fly in IMC because the plane didn't have dual alternators or a map-based, reliable GPS. Also it was my plane and I don't think he trusted it.

Probably didn't help that on our very first flight into imc (light cloud coverage, no real weather issues) our vacuum pump failed 5 minutes after taking off (standard 6 pack with vor's).

I think he made a good effort to teach me but looking back, it did not prepare me, in any real way, for flying in real-world IMC.

 

[eman1200]

I don’t have brakes on the right side, so clearly we couldn’t fly in IMC during training.

 

[MackMooney]

My first experience with IMC was during my ppl with only 10 hours, couldn't imagine not doing it during my IR.
heck would probably have not flown with my cfii if she had refused to go into clouds.
We do live in texas where IMC is actually flyable

 

[midlifeflyer]

I don’t have brakes on the right side, so clearly we couldn’t fly in IMC during training.

Absolutely not!