What's the $ burn rate while learning?

BillW

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BillW
Hi, folks! New member and prospective student here. I've done a lot of reading around, and I've seen many recommendations that a student fly 2-3 times/week. I've seen school and club sites that list hourly rates for planes and CFIs. Nowhere have I found anything that translates that into how much money I'm looking at spending to fly 2-3 times/week. How many hours is a typical lesson (yes, I understand it will be much longer when I get to cross-countries and the like)? Is it the same amount of hours for the CFI and the plane, or do I use some CFI hours on the ground?

Thanks for your help!
 
Most lessons are around an hour to an hour & a half. Until you solo you will be charged for the CFI and plane. Some CFIs charge for pre and post flight, and ground school. Some don't.
 
If you gotta ask, you are overthinking it. Better to go for the Macro view and know that $8500-$9000 will get you done and done.

But if you want the micro view....

Data Points.... Many places have C172s that rent for around $125/hr wet (fuel included). CFI's are often $40-50 per hour, but we will use $50 to make math easy.

Typical Lesson: 42 minutes (0.7 hr) of ground for both pre- and post flight briefing. Add 18 minutes if the student isn't properly prepared by doing their homework. 1.5 hours of flying

$50 x 0.7 = $35.00
$50 x 1.5 = $75.00
$125 x 1.5 = $187.50

Rounded up, $300.00** per lesson. ** this is a total SWAG, and the rates/times are going to vary.... a lot.
 
Time with the CFI will be split between

"ground", aka the pre- and post flight briefings aka what are you going to go out and do then later what you went out and did and what you will go out and do next time​

and

'Dual instruction received" aka flying time where he or she is next to you in the airplane​
 
And since you haven't asked, best to plan your budget around your PPL taking 60-65 hours. Have the money to finish within this time frame.

Then do everything possible to finish in less time. Including being well prepared for each lesson (read your books, did homework assignments) and flying as frequently as scheduling and weather permits.
 
Is it just me, or have we had multiple threads asking these same questions lately...

As stated above, the typical lesson is an hour of ground and an hour of air. The cost will vary depending on where you’re located and who you fly with. I’d say 10k is an average estimate to budget for, give or take a few thousand. Best to stop into a local flight school and ask for a ‘rate sheet’. Use those words, and they will think you’re a genius.

GL!
 
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Hopefully you have $1200/mo+ you can throw at aviation if you want to do two lessons/week.
 
I rarely got charged ground unless we were specifically doing ground. if the post flight conversation was more detailed and I was learning stuff, I got charged ground.
 
And since you haven't asked, best to plan your budget around your PPL taking 60-65 hours. Have the money to finish within this time frame.

Then do everything possible to finish in less time. Including being well prepared for each lesson (read your books, did homework assignments) and flying as frequently as scheduling and weather permits.


That.
 
Thanks! So, it sounds like the answer is that it depends on the CFI/school whether they charge for ground time before & after flying. I'm aware that I can expect to spend $8K-12K to reach my PPL (I'm in the San Diego area, where I gather prices are on the high side), and that the time required will depend on my preparation as well as my ability, and will almost certainly be more than the minimum FAA requirement. I'm hoping that I've got a few things that will give me a little bit of a leg up: I'm an engineer with plenty of physics background and a motorhead with plenty of experience with engines, and with a few decades of aviation reading behind me, so the technical aspects come fairly easily to me (I'm about halfway through reading the PHAK). Of course, those things could just lead me to skim over things that I think I know, so I'll have to be watchful there.
 
If you’re flying a relatively new plane, you could easily spend $10k-$14k by the time you’re done with everything. I would recommend making sure you can afford it and then don’t look back...just fly and study consistently. Oh, and mount a GoPro with audio in the plane so you can debrief your flights...that is a huge help early on.
 
All else being equal, go for the smaller airport rather than the larger one to save some hours. I got my PPL at John Wayne (Sunrise Aviation) and the distance from where the plane was parked to the hold short line on 20L was about a mile. The Hobbs meter is ticking whenever the engine is running, racking up that rental time. Also, a less busy field will mean less time waiting in the run-up area.

There's some really pretty country there to the east, around the El Capitan Reservoir and out toward Ramona. I did some training (private party, not a school) out of Gillespie in the spring, after some heavy rains, and the hills were so green! And flying up the coast past Torrey Pines never gets old.

Good luck in your endeavor!!
 
I'm in the San Diego area
One huge HUGE benefit to being in San Diego.... you're next door to one of the largest flying clubs in North America, Plus One Flyers, www.plusoneflyers.org.

This group has more airplanes in their fleet to be declared an airforce in some small countries.

Rental rates on some 172's are near $100.00/hr and that savings over other places will add up quickly. http://www.plusoneflyers.org/fleet

They also offer flight instruction.

A big benefit to groups like this is the easy ability to step up to bigger and better aircraft once your training and experience permit. The other is the ability to save money while training and flying for yourself.
 
How do y'all gather up that air? o_O

That would be a Reverse Three-Nozzled Bloozer

images
 
and a motorhead with plenty of experience with engines
I know of one airline pilot (flying for Spirit) who paid for just about all of her flight training to get that airline job by first becoming an airplane mechanic (known as an A&P). She became well known and respected in this area and did a good job hustling new work. She did finish with some scholastic debt, but it was minimal.

So if you like working on motors, gaining your A&P certification might be worthwhile to you.
 
All else being equal, go for the smaller airport rather than the larger one to save some hours. I got my PPL at John Wayne (Sunrise Aviation) and the distance from where the plane was parked to the hold short line on 20L was about a mile. The Hobbs meter is ticking whenever the engine is running, racking up that rental time. Also, a less busy field will mean less time waiting in the run-up area.

Yeah, but I am willing to bet because of those few extra dollars you are now 100% confident to go into any busy commercial airport in the country as well as on your game with ATC. Many pilots that fly outta Podunk are afraid to go into towered fields let alone a Charlie airport with Big Iron!
 
I've been flying in SD for almost 20 years. Happy to share my thoughts if you send me a PM. A few basic decisions you need to make: which airport, 141 flight school or 61 through a club (or school), type of ground (class, computer, or individual) and to an extent the model of plane. There's a pretty massive range in SD including a massive range of up keep. Good luck.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
I started my training 2 yrs ago and got my ppl early this month. I was paying $170 per hr wet + $30 per hr for my cfi. I bought my Cherokee 180 after 25 hrs so then it was just the $30 per hr when he was along. Since I had a plane and could solo, and was busy with work, I drug out my training too long. If I was renting I would have likely done it in 50-60 hrs (instead of just over 100). So, it would have been maybe a little under $12k. Doing it my way: $5000 for 1st 25 hrs, $26k for plane, average $200 per month tiedown and gas, so $35,800. The way I look at it, I saved $9k by buying the plane. If I did the training for $12k and then bought the plane ($32k just 2 yrs later [yes planes are going up too]) it would have been over $44k.
 
I took almost exactly a year to get mine flying once a week sometimes every other week and it didn't take any longer than the average about 60 hours. I flew a couple times a week just before my check ride to make sure I was ready. Had all the requirements in at just over 40 hours was ready I felt at about 50 and flew another 10 waiting for the exam date.

My instructor only charged me his time based on the hobbs time for the flights. Most of the ground stuff we covered during the flights or I did on my own. I did the test prep at one of those get your written done in a weekend hotel schools do they even still have those? :eek:)
 
Yeah, but I am willing to bet because of those few extra dollars you are now 100% confident to go into any busy commercial airport in the country as well as on your game with ATC. Many pilots that fly outta Podunk are afraid to go into towered fields let alone a Charlie airport with Big Iron!

I found it a huge help for my IFR training. Talking to ground and tower on every flight got my very used to talking on the radio. I did my PPL and IR training at a Class D airport: RYY. Fairly busy and a mix of piston, turboprop and biz jets. That plus flying in the Atlanta airspace and some IFR practice at PDK (quite busy) and I've never minded going into busy airspace.

I've noticed the same thing about people that trained at untowered airports, especially sleepy/low traffic. When we would get people together for $100 Hamburger runs people often preferred untowered or towered airports based upon where they trained. It was what they were more comfortable doing. I was based at a Class D airport, but we did lots of landing practice at nearby untowered airports, so I got practice at both. For IFR I very much prefer towered airports as they make it easier, especially so on on IMC days. If it's nice out then I can launch and pick up the clearance in the air or cancel as I get near. Doing the phone call thing to get my clearance is much more of a hassle to me, probably due to lack of practice.
 
Hi, folks! New member and prospective student here. I've done a lot of reading around, and I've seen many recommendations that a student fly 2-3 times/week. I've seen school and club sites that list hourly rates for planes and CFIs. Nowhere have I found anything that translates that into how much money I'm looking at spending to fly 2-3 times/week. How many hours is a typical lesson (yes, I understand it will be much longer when I get to cross-countries and the like)? Is it the same amount of hours for the CFI and the plane, or do I use some CFI hours on the ground?

The big reason for 2-3 times per week is you forget less in between lessons. Which means you spend less time relearning. Yes, your weekly cash flow is higher than doing only one lesson per week, but most people end up spending less overall as they learn quicker training more frequently.

If you do frequent training you are more likely to be at the lower end of the total training hours at completion. If you fly once a week or less it's more likely to be at the high end of training hours at completion. Find someone that spent 80-100 hours getting their PPL and often you'll find less than 4 flights a month. Find someone that spent 40-60 hours getting their PPL and you'll find they flew 8-12 flights a month. Yes, they spent 2-3 times per month more, but they ended up spending only about 50-60% as much money overall. Varies person to person and how well their learning style matched with the CFI's teaching style.

Same thing for instrument rating. I got half way through the hours on the IR and the CFII thought I was done and ready for the checkride. I had to show him the hours to get him to believe me. Now I jumped into the IR training pretty shortly after the PPL due to getting some day trips canceled for some rather benign IFR weather. Some of it was from lots of flying that year. Some of it was from a perspective that IFR flying is "playing the video game" and I grew up playing early video games.
 
Your cost will depend heavily on your school/CFI/location and your learning curve. Even if you rent at the lowest hourly rate and fly 10 times a week, certain things can still affect your training that are beyond your control. The better prepared you are, the more money you will save. I did a video a while back on how much it cost me to get my PPL, see video below. To be save I'll say have a total budget of about $15,000.

 
I did the test prep at one of those get your written done in a weekend hotel schools do they even still have those?
Yes. American Flyers is one brand of flight school that holds these on a routine basis.
 
I fly out of a part 61 club with a freelance CFI.

$50/hr CFI
$90/hr C152

Figure 2 times a week $300, 3 times a week $400-450

Typical lesson on maneuvers/landings 1hr. Cross countries more like 2. My CFI does not charge for pre/post briefings unless we pull out the books and have a 20+ minute ground session. So your numbers might be different on that aspect.
 
I flew home from my checkride with 61 hours, but I'm in my 40's and I was my CFI's first student, so we went slooooooow.

I'll suggest something not many people have: if you buy your own plane, your cost per hour is way lower, and your ability to schedule training around your own schedule is much higher. In my case I bought a 172, got my PPL in it, then upgraded to a 182. I ended up selling the 172 for more than I paid for it, but I shopped well, and I didn't have any catastrophic failures - sometimes you need to spring for an engine on short notice.

But if you can spring for it I'd strongly recommend training in your own plane.
 
I just completed my Sport certificate in November. I'll suggest a slightly different way of looking at the expense and also a different perspective on your training.

Look at it this way - after you finish training, you're still going to fly, right? That won't be free. Presumably you'll be renting a plane, at least for a while. Even if you buy, you'll have hangar expenses, gas, maintenance, etc. So,...

Decide what you're willing or able to spend per month for your flying as a long-term, continuing expense. Then make that a base number for your monthly training expense and add the cost of the instructor to it. That's a reasonably small delta, all things considered.

That will mean you'll be training at roughly the same frequency as you will fly after training. Depending on your budget and plans, that might be a slower than "optimal" rate for learning, and therefore it might cost you a little more total. BUT, you'll naturally reach the point where your skills don't atrophy badly between lessons and therefore they won't atrophy badly between flights after you finish.

And when you get your ticket it will be easy to afford flying at the same frequency.

Personally, I think this will be a safer rate for learning. If you spend at your pain threshold, fly as often as you can possibly afford, you'll get your certificate quicker. Then you'll lay off for a month or so letting your bank account recover, and when you fly again your skills will have fallen off. Your primary goal should be to maximize safety, not minimize expense.

Just a different way to look at it. And worth what you paid for it. Or less. :)
 
In the Twin Cities you are seeing 172 wet rentals over $150/hr. And CFI time of $65-$85/hr.

As for lessons, they are often scheduled into a 2-hr block. You probably talk for 10-15min ahead of the flight, fly over 1hr and usually another 20min on the backend. So in a 2hr block its probably billed for all but 15 minutes. So that is $140 for the instructor and another 190 for the plane or about $330 per lesson or a bit shy of $1000/week assuming 3 lessons. I'd think 12...14 weeks so $12K...$14K.

Using a large flying club can save you a lot of money. Having your own plane might save you some money but that is an entirely different topic.
 
Oh yeah, take any prolonged break and you'll be redoing some of those weeks. And if you switch instructors expect a partial reset (not fun!).
 
Oh yeah, take any prolonged break and you'll be redoing some of those weeks. And if you switch instructors expect a partial reset (not fun!).

This is very true. I finished with instructor #4 ($@^%ing airlines grabbed the first three). And each changeover also inflicted a break of three or four weeks before we could make scheduling work. Broken aircraft and hurricanes inflicted other delays.

At some point, you just say que sera, sera, write the check, and get on with it.
 
Perhaps someone else has mentioned it, but if not I’d like to suggest that you think very carefully before agreeing to make an upfront payment to get a “discounted” hourly rate.
 
depends how good you are and how fast you pick it up. Like everything else.

Do NOT ever pay money upfront for a discounted future airplane rental. you can figure out why. flights schools have a slightly longer shelf life than sushi grade tuna.

Twice a week minimum - three times is better if you are anyplace there is weather since you will be cancelling at least one of those every week in winter. Learn in summer and fall - takes less time. better weather.
 
Oh yeah, take any prolonged break and you'll be redoing some of those weeks. And if you switch instructors expect a partial reset (not fun!).
Yes, from the stories I read on here it seems finding a CFI that works for you and that can stay with you is perhaps more important than training frequency. I had one CFI did 3 hours a month and finished in 60.
 
Very valuable inputs from everyone. I would also recommend doing the following...

As u go to sleep and as u get up, utter the following words loudly until u get tired of hearing them , then utter some more.

MORE RIGHT RUDDER.

O have spent a lot of $$ just listening to that. You are welcome

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
I know of one airline pilot (flying for Spirit) who paid for just about all of her flight training to get that airline job by first becoming an airplane mechanic (known as an A&P). She became well known and respected in this area and did a good job hustling new work. She did finish with some scholastic debt, but it was minimal.

So if you like working on motors, gaining your A&P certification might be worthwhile to you.

I forgot to mention that I'm about to turn 60. I don't think I'm going to plan on starting any new careers.
 
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