What would you do

NealRomeoGolf

NealRomeoGolf

Final Approach
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Sent the plane in for an avionics upgrade - GFC500 auto pilot, G5 attitude indicator and more. Used a new-to-me shop since I don't trust my local one that did my last upgrade, which was an audio panel, com2 and transponder upgrade.

New shop gets behind the panel and finds wire hell and is recommending a complete panel pull and rewire everything. They say solder joints are awful, wire bundles are interfering with the control column, etc.

I'm a fairly trusting guy. Numerous people on this board have used this shop and I don't think they're yanking my chain.

If I have to do a complete rewire, including my old 530W, it's like paying for a GPS install all over again. Should I go ahead and put a 750 in and not rewire an old 20 year old GPS?

You'll all say yes because it's not your money. The shop will give me trade in credit for the 530. I'm thinking I just need to bite the bullet and "while we're in there...."
 
Climb under the panel and assess for yourself. I was rather shocked by mine, and I also had the wire bundle rubbing on the control column. I fixed the later immediately, but will have to deal with the rest later. Didn’t find bad connections, just a real nightmare.

personally, I would do it if I were doing an install like you are, based on what mine looked like, but I’d take a look see for myself before deciding.


Edit forgot to say go for the upgrade since you’d be paying for the wiring anyway.
 
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Existing wiring may be a rats nest but it's working. I would leave it as is, or go all in and put in a 650xi or 750xi unit. No sense paying to rewire the 530.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Sent the plane in for an avionics upgrade - GFC500 auto pilot, G5 attitude indicator and more. Used a new-to-me shop since I don't trust my local one that did my last upgrade, which was an audio panel, com2 and transponder upgrade.

New shop gets behind the panel and finds wire hell and is recommending a complete panel pull and rewire everything. They say solder joints are awful, wire bundles are interfering with the control column, etc.

I'm a fairly trusting guy. Numerous people on this board have used this shop and I don't think they're yanking my chain.

If I have to do a complete rewire, including my old 530W, it's like paying for a GPS install all over again. Should I go ahead and put a 750 in and not rewire an old 20 year old GPS?

You'll all say yes because it's not your money. The shop will give me trade in credit for the 530. I'm thinking I just need to bite the bullet and "while we're in there...."
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Not sure if it helps, but after they did mine I've been to several other shops that have said they did the best wiring they've ever seen. Depending on how long you plan to keep the airplane, i.e long enough for another avionics upgrade, it may be worth it just to make the next upgrade more reasonable. :dunno:
 
The nice thing about the gtn is that it talks to the g5's, gad13, gad29, gmu11, and probably your gnc 255 over a canbus, which greatly simplifies the wiring. What's the net cost of the 750 after your trade? Sarasota is doing 530 to 750xi for 15k, but that includes installation. I bet it'd knock a grand or two off the re-wire job.

If I was in your shoes, and I could afford it, I'd do it. The 750 is soooo nice. Have them cut a new panel and get rid of the overlay and put everything where you want it. The gtn Xi will give you smart glide, too.

You know you're going to do it eventually anyway. Think of it like saving yourself money in the future. Congressional math.
 
Here's a negative I thought of in the shower. A 750 and the autopilot controller fill the center stack. I forget which audio panel you have, but one of those three will have to go somewhere else. Maybe a gtn can remotely operate your audio panel if it's a Garmin?
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Sent the plane in for an avionics upgrade - GFC500 auto pilot, G5 attitude indicator and more. Used a new-to-me shop since I don't trust my local one that did my last upgrade, which was an audio panel, com2 and transponder upgrade.

New shop gets behind the panel and finds wire hell and is recommending a complete panel pull and rewire everything. They say solder joints are awful, wire bundles are interfering with the control column, etc.

I'm a fairly trusting guy. Numerous people on this board have used this shop and I don't think they're yanking my chain.

If I have to do a complete rewire, including my old 530W, it's like paying for a GPS install all over again. Should I go ahead and put a 750 in and not rewire an old 20 year old GPS?

You'll all say yes because it's not your money. The shop will give me trade in credit for the 530. I'm thinking I just need to bite the bullet and "while we're in there...."
Click to expand...

Back in 2002 I did extensive work on my cherokee 140. It was owner-assisted, working with an IA and A&P at the aeroclub on base. Basically everything forward of the firewall was removed and overhauled or replaced with new. And a bunch of other things were done (e.g., new battery cables)

Words I learned to hate: "ya know, while you are at it, ya oughta..."
 
Buy once, cry once. But as @Jim K points out, the 750 is 1.5 inches taller than the 530.
 
How long are you going to keep the airplane,if you can get a good trade value,go for the upgrade.
 
Regardless of what you do for a radio, I'd spend the money correcting the wiring. Ditching the 530 while it works and still has some value might be a good idea if the airplane is going to stay around for a while. What to replace the 530 with is a different discussion. What units are available in the timeframe that the shop has to work on your airplane? Many of the Garmin units have delivery delays, which may need to be considered if you're going to buy brand new equipment. An Avidyne will slide into the same location that a 530 was in and seems to have better availability right now from what I hear. I don't care for the user interface on them but I'd consider installing one if I needed a radio and that was what was available.
 
Jim K said:
Here's a negative I thought of in the shower. A 750 and the autopilot controller fill the center stack. I forget which audio panel you have, but one of those three will have to go somewhere else. Maybe a gtn can remotely operate your audio panel if it's a Garmin?
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I'd have to move the PS Engineering panel to the right stack.
 
How is the audio quality of your radios and intercom? Wiring issues are the most likely culprit if you have good equipment and the sound quality bothers you. If you get fresh wire and a GTN Xi now, you’ll be happy, broke, and confident that it’s the last time you pay someone to monkey with the panel. If you don’t, you’ll have more money but will miss some GTN features and possibly suffer from wiring faults, including audio problems.

I’d go whole hog, even if it were my money. The main reasons are the confidence in having good wiring and the features of the GTN compared with the GNS. A remote audio panel is an option to save panel space (particularly if your flying habits won’t run up against the differences in how ISO modes and volume controls work in the GMA 35c vs. a traditional audio panel). The GTN gives you a real MFD and VNAV, not to mention many other handy things better than the GNS.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I'd have to move the PS Engineering panel to the right stack.
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That's a bummer, though I guess it wouldn't be that bad, just a bit less convenient to use both radios. I generally only use my second radio for ATIS and ground, which you generally are switching to when you're not too busy. The GTN can monitor the standby frequency, so coming into an uncontrolled field you can be on with approach and monitor CTAF without touching the audio panel.
 
iamtheari said:
How is the audio quality of your radios and intercom? Wiring issues are the most likely culprit if you have good equipment and the sound quality bothers you. If you get fresh wire and a GTN Xi now, you’ll be happy, broke, and confident that it’s the last time you pay someone to monkey with the panel. If you don’t, you’ll have more money but will miss some GTN features and possibly suffer from wiring faults, including audio problems.

I’d go whole hog, even if it were my money. The main reasons are the confidence in having good wiring and the features of the GTN compared with the GNS. A remote audio panel is an option to save panel space (particularly if your flying habits won’t run up against the differences in how ISO modes and volume controls work in the GMA 35c vs. a traditional audio panel). The GTN gives you a real MFD and VNAV, not to mention many other handy things better than the GNS.
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The co-pilot seat has had issues to where you'd plug some headsets in and you'd get no transmit from that side. I plugged in an older splitter and now all headseats work. Figured it was a connection problem. Perhaps it was the wiring. The back seats can get crackly too when they talk. Maybe new wiring fixes all this?
 
A friend recently had the panel in his plane redone. He told me tales of the nearly 50 year old wiring that was very concerning and a bit scary. It was costly to do but he loves the plane and plans to keep it until he's done flying, which we both hope is a good number of years.

At the end of the day it's your dollars and your decision. My friend spent more time and money upgrading than he had planned to but in the end he's very happy and said he'd do the same thing again. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing ...
 
I am very budget conscious with my family. My money goes towards them, first and myself, last. So unless the 750 fits in your budget I would say rewire the 530W.
 
Just do it now, otherwise when that 530 kicks the bucket you’ll be doing this then and it’ll cost twice as much.
 
Based on @Mtns2Skies' comment, I know the shop you're using. They've done my last two upgrades, and they do fantastic work. They're also on the up and up... They have very high standards and I know that the owner personally inspects everything and does not hesitate to make his guys re-do things that aren't perfect. (I know some of the guys who are on the receiving end of that as well. :rofl:)

You've just encountered the most expensive four words in aviation - "While we're in there..." - but as crappy as it is to be in this situation, it's definitely a golden opportunity for a GPS upgrade. I'd get the GTN 750Xi and not look back.

BTW, you don't need to mount the autopilot controller in the radio stack. I've seen a lot of people put them to the left of the radio stack down low. You'll be poking and twisting on it a lot, so just make sure it's visible and not far from where your right hand will be anyway.
 
The GTN 750xi is going in. He gave me pricing for a G3X setup and, upon quick analysis, the divorce would've been more expensive than the avionics upgrade.

So in the end the Lance will be getting:
second G5 plus added OAT probe
GFC500 w/ yaw damper
GTN 750xi
no more vacuum system
no more DME (it died anyway)
no more GPS396
new 406 ELT
 
I think I also used this shop for some troubleshooting when I bought my 180. Very honest and fair. And even complimented my "good German name". I barely knew I was German myself.
 
While spending the money, put in dual 275's vs the G5's.

Audio panel? The GTN 750xi can drive a remote audio panel I believe. (more money!)
 
EdFred said:
Am I the only disturbed by the thought that Jim was thinking about Neal while he was in the shower?
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:rofl:
I was thinking about Neal's PLANE in the shower. :blueplane::blowingkisses:
 
texasclouds said:
What model plane is it? Is the rest of the plane nice?
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Piper Lance.

Seats were freshly redone. Engine is getting near TBO in another year or two. Paint is fine although got battered in the rain this year.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Nope and nope. I like G5s. And I like my @mscheuer audio panel.
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I thought this was a thread about spending more of your money? Not sure how your preferences are relevant here.......... :)

To be serious for a second. You're going to have a great panel with your choices. A GTN 650xi alone would be great upgrade, but the 750xi is hard core.

Can they set up now for any future G3X upgrade? Prewire anything, so that future installation would be that much cheaper?

Thanks for sharing the process - I learn something new everyday here.
 
All I can say is, take the credit for the 530 while you can.

I have said this before, and I know it rubs feathers the wrong way, but the 430/530 family is really old, for a piece of electronic equipment.

Like many in aviation, I work in IT, and my customers view 5-year-old hardware as "nearly dead". So, I have a tendency to view a 1998 piece of technology as well-past expiration. Congrats to Garmin for supporting them as long as they do.
 
Not sure how much rebate the shop is offering, or if you're married to the idea of a 750/Garmin, but Avidyne is giving back $2000 on their IFD540/550 navigators.
 
Tom J said:
Not sure how much rebate the shop is offering, or if you're married to the idea of a 750/Garmin, but Avidyne is giving back $2000 on their IFD540/550 navigators.
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It is much more than that. :)
 
Tom J said:
Not sure how much rebate the shop is offering, or if you're married to the idea of a 750/Garmin, but Avidyne is giving back $2000 on their IFD540/550 navigators.
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If I understand the Avidyne pitch, choosing their product, if you have a 530, significantly reduces installation costs as it’s nearly a slide-in replacement. Si?
 
Rgbeard said:
If I understand the Avidyne pitch, choosing their product, if you have a 530, significantly reduces installation costs as it’s nearly a slide-in replacement. Si?
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Correct. It may not be 100% slide in but it should be close.
 
In my case, since it's a full rewire, a slide in replacement has no value.
 
Rgbeard said:
If I understand the Avidyne pitch, choosing their product, if you have a 530, significantly reduces installation costs as it’s nearly a slide-in replacement. Si?
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Yes, an IFD540/550 is a direct slide in for a 530W. IFD440 is a slide in for 430W. There is extra work if replacing a non-WAAS unit. Unfortunately, that's about the extent of their line, replacing older units, nothing really new or stand-alone from Avidyne.
 
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