What would you do?

Crashnburn

Crashnburn

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Crashnburn
A few weeks ago, my wife and I bought her what we thought was a brand new Lexus, for many a pretty penny. They put a low mileage number on the sales contract. That number was showing on the odometer.

My wife has barely driven it, and her phone app says it has well over 8000 miles on it. My first thought was “This is why car dealers have such a bad reputation. “

What are our options?
Thanks
 
Crashnburn said:
A few weeks ago, my wife and I bought her what we thought was a brand new Lexus, for many a pretty penny. They put a low mileage number on the sales contract. That number was showing on the odometer.

My wife has barely driven it, and her phone app says it has well over 8000 miles on it. My first thought was “This is why car dealers have such a bad reputation. “

What are our options?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Ask? What does the phone app track? Maybe those are miles on the ship from where it was built.
 
How many miles on it when you took delivery?

Do you have any kids or deadbeat relatives that live with you?
 
The low number was on the actual odometer, not the trip odometer... right?
 
Crashnburn said:
A few weeks ago, my wife and I bought her what we thought was a brand new Lexus, for many a pretty penny. They put a low mileage number on the sales contract. That number was showing on the odometer.

My wife has barely driven it, and her phone app says it has well over 8000 miles on it. My first thought was “This is why car dealers have such a bad reputation. “

What are our options?
Thanks
Click to expand...

A OBD code reader can tell you the actual mileage of the car.
 
DaleB said:
The low number was on the actual odometer, not the trip odometer... right?
Click to expand...

And in Michigan, odometer mileage must be reported on the title when sold. Of course, nothing to keep them from lying, but when all the paperwork is signed, I check it.
 
DaleB said:
The low number was on the actual odometer, not the trip odometer... right?
Click to expand...

If the dealer did that, they gonna have some ‘splainin to do. My guess is they would compensate some money based on actual mileage if you threatened to go official with it. It’d be easy enough to do. Blue book it with one mileage and then other. The difference would be compensation due.
 
Back in the day, we had a used car dealer nicknamed "Fast Eddie" because he could spin back an odometer faster than anyone else. One of my clients sued him. During opening, I said, "Not only that but he changed the title by scraping off the real number on the title and putting in the fake one. "

Judge: Can you prove that?
Me: Here's the original title.
 
luvflyin said:
If the dealer did that, they gonna have some ‘splainin to do. My guess is they would compensate some money based on actual mileage if you threatened to go official with it. It’d be easy enough to do. Blue book it with one mileage and then other. The difference would be compensation due.
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Thanks. The title got the trip odometer, not the actual odometer reading. The actual price minus Blue Book used price seems pretty fair. My wife will be making that decision as it’s her car. Forgot to mention the app shows a wrench along with the mileage, and the engine has started making a funny noise. It hasn’t been leaking oil; I hope that it’s not because there’s no oil to leak!
 
Crashnburn said:
Thanks. The title got the trip odometer, not the actual odometer reading. The actual price minus Blue Book used price seems pretty fair. My wife will be making that decision as it’s her car. Forgot to mention the app shows a wrench along with the mileage, and the engine has started making a funny noise. It hasn’t been leaking oil; I hope that it’s not because there’s no oil to leak!
Click to expand...
Wait -- what? They actually did put the trip odometer on the sales contract, and not the actual mileage? Did they also falsify the odometer statement, or was this just a misunderstanding based on not reading all of the documentation they provided?

If that is really what happened, than I'd say you have a very strong case for returning that vehicle for (at the very least) a full refund. Honest mistake by a newbie salesperson? I doubt that very, very much. There's a certain level of basis competency that one has to be able to expect from a car dealer. There is NO way they didn't know the actual mileage. You're dealing with a car dealer that has already tried and succeeded in cheating you. No way of knowing what else is wrong with the vehicle, but you should know by now that you can't believe a word they say.

If I were in your shoes, that vehicle would be gone in a heartbeat, and I'd be looking for a different one... from a different dealer. If the one you bought from balks at taking it back, remind them that there's a federal law that provides for a $10K fine, plus you can file a civil suit.

49 U.S. Code § 32705 - Disclosure requirements on transfer of motor vehicles | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
49 U.S. Code § 32709 - Penalties and enforcement | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
 
DaleB said:
Wait -- what? They actually did put the trip odometer on the sales contract, and not the actual mileage? Did they also falsify the odometer statement, or was this just a misunderstanding based on not reading all of the documentation they provided?

If that is really what happened, than I'd say you have a very strong case for returning that vehicle for (at the very least) a full refund. Honest mistake by a newbie salesperson? I doubt that very, very much. There's a certain level of basis competency that one has to be able to expect from a car dealer. There is NO way they didn't know the actual mileage. You're dealing with a car dealer that has already tried and succeeded in cheating you. No way of knowing what else is wrong with the vehicle, but you should know by now that you can't believe a word they say.

If I were in your shoes, that vehicle would be gone in a heartbeat, and I'd be looking for a different one... from a different dealer. If the one you bought from balks at taking it back, remind them that there's a federal law that provides for a $10K fine, plus you can file a civil suit.

49 U.S. Code § 32705 - Disclosure requirements on transfer of motor vehicles | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
49 U.S. Code § 32709 - Penalties and enforcement | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
Click to expand...
Wow. Thanks very much. Both salesmen we dealt with are very experienced. One is the sales manager. For how long, I don’t know after this.
 
Crashnburn said:
A few weeks ago, my wife and I bought her what we thought was a brand new Lexus, for many a pretty penny. They put a low mileage number on the sales contract. That number was showing on the odometer.

My wife has barely driven it, and her phone app says it has well over 8000 miles on it. My first thought was “This is why car dealers have such a bad reputation. “

What are our options?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Kalifornica has some pretty stringent rules, especially with stuff like this. Me, I would take back.. the leak sounds funny... A Lexus does not start dripping stuff at 8K miles...
 
Crashnburn said:
Thanks. The title got the trip odometer, not the actual odometer reading. The actual price minus Blue Book used price seems pretty fair. My wife will be making that decision as it’s her car. Forgot to mention the app shows a wrench along with the mileage, and the engine has started making a funny noise. It hasn’t been leaking oil; I hope that it’s not because there’s no oil to leak!
Click to expand...

Maybe all this odometer stuff is making the engine have funny noises just like flying over water and mountains at night causes airplane engines to make funny noises.
 
DaleB said:
Wait -- what? They actually did put the trip odometer on the sales contract, and not the actual mileage? Did they also falsify the odometer statement, or was this just a misunderstanding based on not reading all of the documentation they provided?

If that is really what happened, than I'd say you have a very strong case for returning that vehicle for (at the very least) a full refund. Honest mistake by a newbie salesperson? I doubt that very, very much. There's a certain level of basis competency that one has to be able to expect from a car dealer. There is NO way they didn't know the actual mileage. You're dealing with a car dealer that has already tried and succeeded in cheating you. No way of knowing what else is wrong with the vehicle, but you should know by now that you can't believe a word they say.

If I were in your shoes, that vehicle would be gone in a heartbeat, and I'd be looking for a different one... from a different dealer. If the one you bought from balks at taking it back, remind them that there's a federal law that provides for a $10K fine, plus you can file a civil suit.

49 U.S. Code § 32705 - Disclosure requirements on transfer of motor vehicles | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
49 U.S. Code § 32709 - Penalties and enforcement | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute (cornell.edu)
Click to expand...

Brings up a good point. Did they ‘advertise’ it with the trip mileage? If they did, that’s fraud. If they presented it for sale and bargained with accurate mileage but boo boo’d on the paperwork then it’s just a clerical error.
 
We have a 2004 GS300, 95K miles, and a 2014 RX350, 65K miles, neither one leaks or makes funny noises. They have been almost trouble free. I would return it. If they balk on the return I would threaten reporting the falsification of the odometer statement to your state DMV, even it it was an honest mistake. The engine should not be making funny noises at 8K miles.
 
luvflyin said:
Brings up a good point. Did they ‘advertise’ it with the trip mileage? If they did, that’s fraud. If they presented it for sale and bargained with accurate mileage but boo boo’d on the paperwork then it’s just a clerical error.
Click to expand...
“Clerical error” doesn’t hold much water, I’m afraid. There’s an odometer statement required by Federal law that has to have the correct total mileage. If you’re a dealer and you can’t keep track of the actual mileage of vehicles in your inventory... well, you’re going to have a very hard life.
 
And the correct answer is: Tesla. You can experience the future today. Amazing.
 
DaleB said:
“Clerical error” doesn’t hold much water, I’m afraid. There’s an odometer statement required by Federal law that has to have the correct total mileage. If you’re a dealer and you can’t keep track of the actual mileage of vehicles in your inventory... well, you’re going to have a very hard life.
Click to expand...

Yeah.
 
Mystery Solved. My wife and I went to the dealership today and talked to the sales manager. We showed him what we saw and he had no idea what was going on, either. He called the maintenance department who told him the 9000 miles, and wrench was telling us the car needed to be serviced at that mileage. Then he showed us the real odometer of 870 miles.

No one told us about that feature and the salesman didn’t know either so I don’t feel all that bad about it. I just had to take a day off work to help my wife.

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions.
 
Crashnburn said:
Mystery Solved. My wife and I went to the dealership today and talked to the sales manager. We showed him what we saw and he had no idea what was going on, either. He called the maintenance department who told him the 9000 miles, and wrench was telling us the car needed to be serviced at that mileage. Then he showed us the real odometer of 870 miles.
Click to expand...
I don't mean to be picky or negative, but this makes no sense at all.
 
Many cars have a miles to next maintenance screen common for years in higher end cars...add the two numbers together you get the 10K service reminder...if you are looking at that screen and never seen it you could easily think the car had higher mileage but only on a car with less miles than the service interval.
 
Warlock said:
Many cars have a miles to next maintenance screen common for years in higher end cars...add the two numbers together you get the 10K service reminder...if you are looking at that screen and never seen it you could easily think the car had higher mileage but only on a car with less miles than the service interval.
Click to expand...

Almost exactly what happened. The girl at the service desk was clueless, too, and she should have known better.
 
Crashnburn said:
Mystery Solved. My wife and I went to the dealership today and talked to the sales manager. We showed him what we saw and he had no idea what was going on, either. He called the maintenance department who told him the 9000 miles, and wrench was telling us the car needed to be serviced at that mileage. Then he showed us the real odometer of 870 miles.

No one told us about that feature and the salesman didn’t know either so I don’t feel all that bad about it. I just had to take a day off work to help my wife.

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions.
Click to expand...
I’ll bet that salesman and the office staff knew exactly what was happening... Never doubt someone’s ability to take advantage of you.
 
RyanB said:
I’ll bet that salesman and the office staff knew exactly what was happening... Never doubt someone’s ability to take advantage of you.
Click to expand...

How did they take advantage of him? The legit odometer read what it was supposed to and the "service odometer" is what his wife was looking it. It's under warranty, they aren't getting any money out of him.
 
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