What would cause this?

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FLEngineer

Filing Flight Plan
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FLEngineer
I had a prebuy done on a Cessna today. The plane was in great shape but there are two spots of wrinkles in the left side of the fuselage. No noticeable damage on the inside, and no accident history. Could these wrinkles have existed straight from manufacture? IMG_2681.jpg
 
I encountered a Cardinal that had a wing tip strike. Initially not appeared that replacement of the plastic tip was all that was needed.
Wrong!
“Further investigation revealed” that the fuselage was distorted . Insurance totaled it!
 
So I assume seeing this would make most walk away from the aircraft purchase?
 
FLEngineer said:
So I assume seeing this would make most walk away from the aircraft purchase?
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Not necessarily. Like previously mentioned, it could be from rough ground handling. Or it could be from something more. What did the pre-buy reveal. Any damage history? What did the person doing the pre-buy think?
 
I’m leaning towards external weight pressed against it unless you see evidence of some attempted repair anywhere and you did mention no evidence on the inside. But, I’d get some expert opinion on it beyond an A&P/IA. Someone should know what to look for if a hard landing or over stress occurred on that exact make/model.

If an additional opinion of said engineer/expert says no concerns than the amount of hours, number of owners, etc. would help me weigh my buy/walk decision a little more. It can be nothing or it could be something that hasn’t created further issues.

Would be great to ask your question ‘from the factory?’ to a key person that has worked at Cessna production.
 
FLEngineer said:
Could these wrinkles have existed straight from manufacture?
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What year/model? Regardless its doubtful that way off the line. While can't make out much details from pic, in general, Cessna considers most smooth dents as negligible damage with several qualifiers. A quick check/opinion of the interior skin/bulkheads/stringers by your APIA (not prebuy guy) will provide the needed input. If you want to take it one step further you can also check the tailcone alignment.
 
Prebuy went very well outside of this. The A&P definitely did not find any signs of damage or damage repair. Also no damage history in the records. He wasn't sure what caused it, but since it was in two places on that left side he theorized that it might be possible it came that way from factory. The two places are within arm's reach, so I guess it's possible someone might have been pressing on the outside at some point.
 
Update: Owner has stated it was from his hands while struggling to put the cover on during a windy day.
 
Well at least the wings are on straight. I went to look at a 180 that was represented as NDH, and standing from the back you could clearly see that one of the wings was bent up abnormally. If you inspect it well and things seem to be straight and there's no evidence of other damage or structural problems, I wouldn't worry too much about a few dents.
 
FLEngineer said:
Update: Owner has stated it was from his hands while struggling to put the cover on during a windy day.
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Now it’s just a matter of if the owner is honest or if your radar detects honesty of the explanation. Sounds plausible. I would ask the owner to make a written statement about what occurred so you can file it away should you decide someday to sell and the next buyer is in your shoes.
 
I don’t know about this. I’d say: be cautious. I don’t think it’s likely that Cessna would let an airplane leave the factory looking like that. I suppose it could’ve been the owner’s hands, but they must have slipped from the cover and pounded the airplane skin really hard. I think your best action was already stated above: have it checked by an APIA.
 
minor or not, remember this issue will come up again when you try to sell it.
 
I find it hard to believe that someone’s hands would cause damage like that unless someone balled their hand into a fist and beat on the side of the airplane. More likely this was caused by a fuel hose being dragged over the fuselage to the top of the wing. Or worse, there is a potential of a tail strike that caused this or repeated tail strikes. Did you see any damage to the tail skid?
 
One quick test to see if airframe is bent... Attach a string to the outside edge of one flap and stretch it until it touches the horizontal stabilizer near the tip. Mark the length on the string.

Take that same string and attach to the other flap and stretch it to the same place on the other horizontal stabilizer. If the length of string is different, then the airframe is bent. Just a simple check. Not conclusive, but if the measurements are different you have a problem.
 
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NordicDave said:
One quick test... Attach a string to the outside edge of one flap and stretch it until it touches the horizontal stabilizer near the tip. Mark the length on the string.

Take that same string and attach to the other flap and stretch it to the same place on the other horizontal stabilizer. If the length of string is different, then the airframe is bent. Just a simple check. Not conclusive, but if the measurements are different you have a problem.
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Use something that doesn't stretch. Maybe thin safety wire or one of the zero stretch fishing lines.
 
FLEngineer said:
Prebuy went very well outside of this. The A&P definitely did not find any signs of damage or damage repair. Also no damage history in the records. He wasn't sure what caused it, but since it was in two places on that left side he theorized that it might be possible it came that way from factory. The two places are within arm's reach, so I guess it's possible someone might have been pressing on the outside at some point.
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If your prebuy A&P has no idea then what is the value of his inspection? Might want to get another opinion. But it doesn’t not look too worrisome to me.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Could a tail strike cause that?
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I looked at a Cherokee a few years ago with similar wrinkles. It was one of the one's with the beacon up on top of the tail like an old timey police car light. The "hangar" the plane was in had a low crossbeam near the entry and when the owner was pushing/pulling through the hangar entry with the nose more compressed than usual the beacon caught that beam and caused that torsion/wrinkles. If it can happen from catching on top like that, I'm sure tail strikes could do it too.
 
From the picture looks like the skin is wrinkled in 2 places, leading a person to suspect the damage is material rather than an area which was merely leaned on to dimple.

It's easy to get mesmerized my the beautiful paint job. I certainly am. Just beautiful paint.

IMG_2681.jpg
 
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