What was new at OSH 2010?

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

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I haven't seen a thread yet with folks telling us what was new, cool, introduced, announced, etc. from the various vendors... do tell!!!

I saw a brief item this morning in the Garmin 696 thread, from John Collins, about Garmin announcing geo-referencing to e-charts and such:

At Oshkosh, Garmin announced geo-referencing of the approach charts and added a new approach chart option from Jeppesen ChartView. I presume normal Jeppesen pricing for updates, but there is a one time $499 fee to add the capability. NACO's FliteCharts will also get the capability in 4Q of this year and there isn't any additional charges other than the regular database update fee.
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What else?
 
TangoWhiskey said:
I haven't seen a thread yet with folks telling us what was new, cool, introduced, announced, etc. from the various vendors... do tell!!!

I saw a brief item this morning in the Garmin 696 thread, from John Collins, about Garmin announcing geo-referencing to e-charts and such:

What else?
Click to expand...

Because of weather and work conditions, I was unable to do my usual annual extensive search for all that was cool and new. Thus, I was only able to hit the big hangar buildings 1.5 times.

Sadly, this year seemed to be marked by what was missing more than by what was there:

- Lowrance was gone, for the second year. No more AirMap. All those promises of "We'll have weather just like Garmin 'soon'" were empty, as many of us suspected.

- AvMap's Vern was AWOL. Vern is the tall, older guy who was with them from the git-go. He sold me my first AvMap III, told me to "wait" on buying the IV when it first came out, and knew more about their stuff than anyone on the planet. A truly great guy who REALLY knew GPS.

- Droid apps? Anyone? I saw a fair number of iPhone/iPad aviation apps for sale, but none for Android. Weird.

- Garmin was no longer offering to update the AOPA, road, or terrain databases for our 496. (You can still do it on-line, of course.) Their vendors were updating the aviation database for $40, which we did.

- Honda had a great deal on their 2000-watt generators. These can be hooked together in parallel to make a 4000-watt generator, which is a great, more flexible solution. I bought a couple.

I'm not into home building, so someone else will have to report on that aspect of the show. From where I was sitting, it looked like Van's influence continues to dominate the home-built market.

Otherwise, all the same vendors were there, selling everything from poorly-carved mahogany airplanes, to automatic wire strippers, to complete engines -- and I mean that in the best possible way. Oshkosh is the greatest show on earth, it was all grand, great and wonderful, and we're counting the days until OSH 2011.
 
This seemed like the most underwhelming OSH that I can remember (but I've only 'known' about OSH for about 10 years now).

Other than the DC-3/C-47 get-together, which I hate to have missed, there didn't seem to be much info at all coming out of OSH this year. I was primed and ready to make the trip up from GA Fri-Sun to close out the show, but I had a major lack of enthusiasm and nothing that really made me want to make the cross-country trip up there. It was a combination of lack of 'big events' worth seeing combined with the lack of information regarding field camping/parking conditions that made me decide to bail on the trip.
 
I only stayed at one end of the field but the unique things I saw this year were

1. Several utterly immaculate warbird restorations, including

JUDGES’ CHOICE: JET
NX524CF
Douglas TA-4F “Skyhawk”
Collings Foundation
Stow, MA.

JUDGES’ CHOICE: FOREIGN JET
N94422
British Aerospace “Sea Harrier”
Arthur Nalls, Jr.
Washington, D.C.

BEST TRANSPORT
N89DH
de Havilland DH.89A “Dragon Rapide”
Gerald Yagen
Virginia Beach, VA.
SILVER WRENCH
Avspecs Limited
Ardmore Airfield,
New Zealand


BEST FIGHTER
NX503PR
Supermarine Seafire F. Mk XV
Wes Stricker
Columbia, MO.
SILVER WRENCH
Jim Cooper
Macon, MO.

BEST P-51
"Dixie Boy"
N5444V
North American P-51D “Mustang”
Selby Burch
Winter Garden, FL.
SILVER WRENCH
American Aero Services
New Smyrna Beach, FL

RESERVE GRAND CHAMPION: WWII
"Live Bait"
N5482V
North American P-51D “Mustang”
Jon Vesely
Scottsdale, AZ.
GOLD WRENCH
Midwest Aero Restoration, LTD.
Danville, IL.

GRAND CHAMPION: WWII
"Kathleen"
N209TW
Goodyear FG-1D “Corsair”
John O’Connor
Downers Grove, IL.
GOLD WRENCH
Airpower Unlimited
Jerome, ID.

2. Another P-51, "Charlotte's Chariot II", parked next to "Live Bait" purely by chance and it turned out the pilots that flew those paint schemes in WWII were squadron mates, both of whom are still living.

3. Three flyable F-4's at one show is a rarity, one from the Collings Foundation and two from the AF Heritage Flight, Tyndall AFB, one of which did the Heritage Flight fly-bys and a fly-by with two A-4 jets.

4. Two P-38's flying formation with a P-51 and A-10, and also with an F-4 and F-15.

5. A recently restored DC-7A.

6. An 11.5 hr overnight Cluster Balloon flight from OSH to MI that reached 14K.

7. The Patillio brothers, Buck and Bill, present in warbirds in review, with two P-51s in WWII paint and two F-16s in Thunderbird demo team colors as backdrops. The twins helped organize the first Thunderbird demonstration team in 1953, flying right and left wing in F-84s. Both were DFC recipients.

8. A "roadable" Glastar taxied past the P-51 parking area.

9. Eight C-47s parked in Warbirds.

10. Three B-17s flew formation overhead.

That's just what I remember off the top of my head that I had never seen before at Airventure.

Oh, and the mud flats that were normally the T-6 parking area....
 
Steve said:
I only stayed at one end of the field but the unique things I saw this year were

1. Several utterly immaculate warbird restorations, including <big snip of great stuff>
Click to expand...

This post illustrates why I love OSH so much. It is all things to all people.

In the early days of my attendance, I was all about the warbirds -- as reflected in this post. I had my head up in wheel wells, peering into gun ports. It was heaven, and I barely took note of the rest of the show.

As time went on, and I learned to fly, my interests extended to the vendors. Headsets, portable intercoms, all sorts of goodies caught my eye.

More time passed. I became an aircraft owner, and suddenly the propeller and engine vendors became important to me. Sure, the warbirds were still fun, but my priorities had changed.

As the kids grew, the Fly Market -- an area I had disdained -- became important. Kids like toys and stuff, and the Fly Market provides them in quantity.

After I joined the Antique Aircraft Association in Blakesburg, and managed to get time in some truly wonderful old airplanes, the Vintage Area came to life for me. I bought a 61-year old antique Ercoupe, and all of the sudden the world of Howard DGAs and Travel Airs became important.

The evolution continued. One year someone told me about the Fish Fry out at the Sea Plane Base -- an area of OSH I'd never seen. Always a sucker for good food, we schlepped our way to the base, via bus-ride -- and started a 15-year tradition of ALWAYS going to the Sea Plane Base on Friday. (Which we missed this year, sadly.)

Then, several years ago a friend built a P6E Hawk replica, which sparked my interest in plans-built home-built aircraft. I now actively scope out these (ever-more-rare) aircraft at OSH.

The list goes on and on. There is literally something for EVERYONE at Oshkosh, and the only way to truly appreciate it is to attend Airventure every year over a lifetime, as Mary and I have.

Now, it's my 19-year-old son (also a pilot -- who just attended his 19th consecutive Airventure) poking his head up inside the wheel wells of Warbirds, showing his girlfriend around the hallowed (if soggy) grounds...and the beat goes on.

We are counting the days to OSH 2011.
 
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I think I want to catch-up with Jay at OSH - see it through a pro's eyes.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
What did you think of your first trip to "Mecca", Spike?
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Blown away.

Want to allocate at least five days next year.

Wish I'd had more time to languidly look around. Was rushing all the time, barely scraped the surface.

And, got to see you, Sharon and Michael. :thumbsup:
 
Plus:

Loved the way how, when we left Sunday morning early, and 2/3 of the parking / camping spaces are empty, there's not a speck of trash.
 
SCCutler said:
Plus:

Loved the way how, when we left Sunday morning early, and 2/3 of the parking / camping spaces are empty, there's not a speck of trash.
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That is indeed impressive.
 
SCCutler said:
I think I want to catch-up with Jay at OSH - see it through a pro's eyes.
Click to expand...

Spike, you have to take in Oshkosh like Jay did it. A section at a time. You can't see it all in one 5 day period of time. Pick what interests you that year and spend your time doing that.

I like to go through the display buildings, but the rest is all about the people. Planes are kind of an afterthought.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Spike, you have to take in Oshkosh like Jay did it. A section at a time. You can't see it all in one 5 day period of time. Pick what interests you that year and spend your time doing that.

I like to go through the display buildings, but the rest is all about the people. Planes are kind of an afterthought.
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I was looking for you thihs year, but when i got to the 195 rows you were already gone. Maybe next year!
 
I had a short list of things to investigate and/or re-investigate.

I wanted a second hands on look at the Bendix King AV8OR Ace. I wanted to talk to avionics retailers about RAM mount options for the Av8or. I wanted to talk to JPI again about adding fuel flow to our JPI 760 twin and mounting the transducers. I wanted to talk to Rosen to see if they'd gotten their sunvisor STC re-approved for our Aztec.

I found at EACH of the booths, factory reps that knew less about their products than I did.

We have a KLN94 in our Aztec, I had a few questions about the RS232 in/out on the Av8or Ace. 3 reps later, during 2 seperate visits, the best I could do was one guy that agreed with me that they should display a KLN94 with the Av8or Ace to demonstrate that ability. When you are only displaying 8 products, how can 3 different reps all respond "I'm sorry, I really don't know much about this (featured) unit. ?

Gulf Coast Avionics had a rep that refused to destinguish the difference between the King Av8or and the Av8or Ace and repeatedly quoted me $575... and even when standing in front of them, did not know the difference between the different RAM mounts.

JPI had a rep working the booth who had a name tag belonging to the person previously in his position. That name crossed off with a pen, and his name written above it. He attempted to answer my questions by looking them up in the literature available to anybody walking by. I asked him about show pricing, he looked up the list price in the 2010 pricing sheets available on their website. After showing him the business card from the company president, he told me of their "other" booth in another building. No show discounts on adding FF to the 760.

At Rosen's booth, when asking about their progress on reapplying for the STC they'd let expire on the Aztec, the president continually confused the Comanche with the Apache and the Knots 2 U Arapahoe with the Aztec. All he could say was watch the website. I bought 4 $10 foldable sunscreens.

I talked with a few people about the future possiblilty of XM Weather on an iPad. I missed Hilton Goldstein's booth, if he was there I would have liked to talk with him on the subject.

If you've got between $1.5 and $4million to blow, I found a LOT of interesting airplanes. That sector seems to be growing by leaps and bounds... I just wonder who their customers are!

Neatest thing I saw was the Speedstar 850 that returned again this year with a new paint job. A Piper Aerostar 700P sans it's Lycoming IO540s with the single turbine in the nose.

Other than that, the neatest thing I saw, just like every year, were the departures while enjoying a beer off the west end of 9/27.
 
SCCutler said:
Plus:

Loved the way how, when we left Sunday morning early, and 2/3 of the parking / camping spaces are empty, there's not a speck of trash.
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That was noted in camp Sholler last year too. After seeing the "ladies" room outfitted near the african compound and talking about brining felt to quite the banging doors next year... it's the only place in the world where the port-o-jhon's go back nicer then they came out.
 
I am somewhat intrigued by the AOA system I saw at the show. I don't think it's new, but the more I read about stall-spin accidents, the more I think an AOA in every airplane might save a lot of lives. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Even though I'm like everybody else and don't think I really need one, I think it would be a nice addition to play with--especially at some of the airports I visit in the 180.
 
SCCutler said:
I think I want to catch-up with Jay at OSH - see it through a pro's eyes.
Click to expand...

Catching up with Jay at OSH is highly recommended...especially near the end of the air show, in the North-40, planted in a lawn chair, cold one in hand, awaiting the arrival/departure show. Only could do this twice this year due to field conditions, no arrivals, etc :sad:
 
wabower said:
I am somewhat intrigued by the AOA system I saw at the show. I don't think it's new, but the more I read about stall-spin accidents, the more I think an AOA in every airplane might save a lot of lives. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Even though I'm like everybody else and don't think I really need one, I think it would be a nice addition to play with--especially at some of the airports I visit in the 180.
Click to expand...

I've been able to fly behind an AOA on the Advanced Flight Systems setup for a few hours. It really is interesting information to have available. I took it up to altitude at maneuvering speed and went into a turn and started pulling G's. It was interesting to see how close to a stall you could get while still carrying 120KIAS.
 
How would you rate the usefulness and/or safety value compared to any other doo-dad in the same price range?

CJones said:
I've been able to fly behind an AOA on the Advanced Flight Systems setup for a few hours. It really is interesting information to have available. I took it up to altitude at maneuvering speed and went into a turn and started pulling G's. It was interesting to see how close to a stall you could get while still carrying 120KIAS.
Click to expand...
 
wabower said:
How would you rate the usefulness and/or safety value compared to any other doo-dad in the same price range?
Click to expand...

Considering the plane I was flying (RV-10) doesn't have any other type of stall warning system, I would say it is definitely worth the money. I would feel much more comfortable flying the -10 into a short strip with the AOA system than without it.

With that said, I've got about 300 hrs in the RV-7A that doesn't have any type of stall warning system at all and I've survived it so far (although I nearly gave me and Tony both a heart attack the first time I flew with him ;)).

Comparing the -10 to the -7 isn't exactly apples-to-apples, though, as it is possible to overload the -10 quite easily due to the extra seats. With the -7, if you can fit it (within reason) you can probably fly it. I don't worry as much about flying the -7 into somewhere like 6Y9 as I would with the -10 where I might be going in heavy and carrying a lot more momentum that I need to stop when on the ground. Being able to see exactly where the 'line' is on approach without having to do an educated guess based on W&B and gross weight would make the approach much less of a mental exercise.
 
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Chris- how do you fly those things near stall speed? Monitor airspeed? Jes' askin'...I'm totally used to manufactured planes.

Do you work out the stall speed during your 20 or 40 hour testing?
 
wabower said:
I am somewhat intrigued by the AOA system I saw at the show. I don't think it's new, but the more I read about stall-spin accidents, the more I think an AOA in every airplane might save a lot of lives. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Even though I'm like everybody else and don't think I really need one, I think it would be a nice addition to play with--especially at some of the airports I visit in the 180.
Click to expand...

I flew over in a C185 turbo with an AOA installed (one of Al's - the round analog type). I was definitely impressed. I've been looking at them (and studying them) for a few years now, and this was the first chance to fly with one. IIRC there are a number of types/vendors, but most are only legal for Experimental because there's substantial alteration to parts of the aircraft (and are lots more expensive, have voice warning, are digital, have an electronic control box, etc). Alpha Systems has 3 versions and range from $600 to $1500. I picked up the analog version from Al (www.liftreserve.com) and it'll get installed next month with the annual.

This one only requires a 337 from the shop, one of the reasons it was installed on the C185 (the owner's an A&P as well as a CFII). So I'm going to give it a try. Maybe my patterns will come down in size from a B1900 to a cherokee....
 
We spent a lot of time at the Alpha booth. My IA friend was with me at the show, so we covered all the bases re. minor alteration install. Just replace an inspection plate with the probe mount, mount the computer and run the wires to the gage. The whole unit weighs less than 2 pounds. Hell, I sweat more than that during most trips.

murphey said:
I flew over in a C185 turbo with an AOA installed (one of Al's - the round analog type). I was definitely impressed. I've been looking at them (and studying them) for a few years now, and this was the first chance to fly with one. IIRC there are a number of types/vendors, but most are only legal for Experimental because there's substantial alteration to parts of the aircraft (and are lots more expensive, have voice warning, are digital, have an electronic control box, etc). Alpha Systems has 3 versions and range from $600 to $1500. I picked up the analog version from Al (www.liftreserve.com) and it'll get installed next month with the annual.

This one only requires a 337 from the shop, one of the reasons it was installed on the C185 (the owner's an A&P as well as a CFII). So I'm going to give it a try. Maybe my patterns will come down in size from a B1900 to a cherokee....
Click to expand...
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Chris- how do you fly those things near stall speed? Monitor airspeed? Jes' askin'...I'm totally used to manufactured planes.

Do you work out the stall speed during your 20 or 40 hour testing?
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Yes, determining the aircraft's low speed performance at all CG's and loadings is part of the fly-off proces. That's important for builders to realize, that the fly-off period isn't just about burning fuel and flying in circles for 25 or 40 hours.

FYI, the RV series (at least the 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8, which have very similar planforms) have very nice stall characteristics. Properly rigged and flown with the ball in the center (yes, that's a lot to ask sometimes), they have a very gentle wing drop. With all of the available power, a stall doesn't necessarily result in much altitude loss.

Of course, if you fly around with your head up and locked, I suppose a stall could be a nasty event.
 
kyleb said:
Of course, if you fly around with your head up and locked, I suppose a stall could be a nasty event.
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Try a cross-coordinated turning stall. That'll get your attention in a hurry. ;)

Other than something like that (which was a staged event, by the way), RV's have well-mannered stall characteristics.
 
Lots of factory-produced airplanes have become piles of scrap as a result of that maneuver.

CJones said:
Try a cross-coordinated turning stall. That'll get your attention in a hurry. ;)

Other than something like that (which was a staged event, by the way), RV's have well-mannered stall characteristics.
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Read today about the new Cirrus "feature" that automatically descends the aircraft in steps down to 12.5K if the system deems the pilot has become non-responsive. I wonder how ATC will respond to that. The descriptions of the system, as I've read it, don't mention it automatically squawking 7700.
 
wabower said:
Lots of factory-produced airplanes have become piles of scrap as a result of that maneuver.
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Due to structural failure or failed recoveries?

Our event concluded with us inverted, but under control.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Read today about the new Cirrus "feature" that automatically descends the aircraft in steps down to 12.5K if the system deems the pilot has become non-responsive. I wonder how ATC will respond to that. The descriptions of the system, as I've read it, don't mention it automatically squawking 7700.
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Interested to hear how they deem the pilot 'unresponsive'. Do the controls shake a bit and ask you to press a button, or is there a voice in the headset saying "Daaaaaavvvvveee.. Ohhhh Daaaaaaaaaaave.. Hello?"
 
skid. with a bunch of altitude demonstrating a skidding base to final turn. we figured out real quick why RV pilots who stall turning base to final end up in a smoking hole. it was "exciting".
 
tonycondon said:
skid. with a bunch of altitude demonstrating a skidding base to final turn. we figured out real quick why RV pilots who stall turning base to final end up in a smoking hole. it was "exciting".
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i bet. was just curious as i suspect things would have been much less exciting in the slipping/turning stall.
 
well we had opposite rudder and aileron...
 
CJones said:
Interested to hear how they deem the pilot 'unresponsive'. Do the controls shake a bit and ask you to press a button, or is there a voice in the headset saying "Daaaaaavvvvveee.. Ohhhh Daaaaaaaaaaave.. Hello?"
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I suspect it works like the automotive systems, looking at a lack of interactions or corrections by the pilot over some period of time, and then sounding an annunciator and looking for a response by the pilot.

Some auto manufacturers system look for a lack of the fine corrections a driver makes in the steering wheel and when it sees the driver's no longer interacting with the car it sounds a warning.
 
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