What type of equipment do I tell atc that I have?

dduff

dduff

Filing Flight Plan
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tailwheelterror
I am wondering what to tell etc about my equipment onboard. Whenever I call for VFR flight following, I state that I am a .... /G because I have a GPS. I will almost always have dual radios, navs, or really some sort of electronic display. Recently I have been using some more simple electronics. What do I say when I only have a single radio and a transponder onboard? I am a /....? I am within a mode C veil, so the transponder is required. Just looking for a simple answer. Thanks!
 
dmspilot said:
Radio and transponder is /U. However, no equipment code is needed for VFR flight following. If someday you find a controller that wants that information, they can ask (I've never been asked).
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Gotcha. Out of habit I have always said /G... they have never asked when I forget. I guess VFR it does not matter too much. Thanks!
 
You tell them your Call sign, Present position (drop the “K” in from the airport ident identifier if using that eg 4 north of KABC, just say 4 north of ABC), Destination (again drop the “K” for the airport identifier), Aircraft type, and Altitude in that order as that’s how they have to type it into the computer. Any other information is unnecessary to the request and shouldn’t be included unsolicited.
 
dmspilot said:
Radio and transponder is /U. However, no equipment code is needed for VFR flight following. If someday you find a controller that wants that information, they can ask (I've never been asked).
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This.

I think many of us got used to stating equipment codes as student pilots learning them, but they are not required for flight following. I haven’t guven one in decades and have never been asked.

For that matter, I’ve never been asked for one for pop-up IFR either, although I have heard of Centers requiring ICAO codes in more recent years. (Controllers? Center computer requirement?)
 
You’d be a /U if you don’t have DME. Equipment suffix is still used for VFRs and not ICAO codes. Technically equipment suffix is used on IFRs as well. It’s just converted over from ICAO format from your flight plan.

Can’t remember if center requires it but equipment suffix is still required for VFR terminal automation for flight progress strips (paper). If using the NAS FDIO computer (TRACONs) I don’t even think it’ll take the entry ( AC TYPE) without the suffix.


IMG_8764.jpeg
 
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My Bonanza was a BE-35/I. One time on an IFR flight from Duluth, Departure Control said, "Minneapolis Center wants to know how you are navigating direct to Rockford."

My answer: "Tell them I am using rho/theta area navigation." (KNS-80)

Pretty sure they didn't know what that is.
 
Is there any hope,that those questions will be removed from the IFR written? The ones that say “the aircraft has [xxxx, yyyy], what do you put in the equipment category on the flight plan?
 
Bottom line is there are no navigation equipment requirements for flight following (which is not a flight plan) so no need to pass that info to ATC as part of the request. If during the period of receiving service you are given an instruction that you can’t comply with due to equipment limitations you say unable and work out a solution with ATC.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
My Bonanza was a BE-35/I. One time on an IFR flight from Duluth, Departure Control said, "Minneapolis Center wants to know how you are navigating direct to Rockford."

My answer: "Tell them I am using rho/theta area navigation." (KNS-80)

Pretty sure they didn't know what that is.
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Had what must have been a rookie center controller ask one time. How are you Navigating Direct? The answer was "Celestial in GRID", he stopped asking.
Another time the "how direct" question was asked. The answer was, there are two highly qualified navigators downstairs with radar, Radar Navigation.
For ATCs benefit, we always filed VORTAC Rho/Theta.
 
dduff said:
I am wondering what to tell etc about my equipment onboard. Whenever I call for VFR flight following, I state that I am a .... /G because I have a GPS. I will almost always have dual radios, navs, or really some sort of electronic display. Recently I have been using some more simple electronics. What do I say when I only have a single radio and a transponder onboard? I am a /....? I am within a mode C veil, so the transponder is required. Just looking for a simple answer. Thanks!
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They don't need all that ICAO alphabet soup stuff for flight following. They'll know you have transponder when you squawk what the tell you to. If you don't have one you should say so in your initial request though.
 
murphey said:
Is there any hope,that those questions will be removed from the IFR written? The ones that say “the aircraft has [xxxx, yyyy], what do you put in the equipment category on the flight plan?
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I don’t remember any of those on the IFR written or study materials. Just took it back in November.
 
murphey said:
Is there any hope,that those questions will be removed from the IFR written? The ones that say “the aircraft has [xxxx, yyyy], what do you put in the equipment category on the flight plan?
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Probably not. It might nor be important (so long as you know the codes for your airplane) but they do need some RNP questions and it's at least a little more practical than how many satellites you need to get a position.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Probably not. It might nor be important (so long as you know the codes for your airplane) but they do need some RNP questions and it's at least a little more practical than how many satellites you need to get a position.
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4 of the 31 active in the GNSS constellation. But then I spent time at Raytheon working on (dare I admit) GPS-OCX.
 
Does an uncertified GPS (app on an android or iphone) count?

I once had ATC ask me if I could navigate direct to a waypoint (which was being used to route traffic to a fly-in) and I could using Avare, but once they realized how slow I was ("increase your speed"... "unable") they took me out of the flow and had me go direct to the airport.
 
Dana said:
Does an uncertified GPS (app on an android or iphone) count?
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Depends on whether you're flying IFR or not. In AIM TBL 1-1-6, Note 4 says, "VFR and hand−held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR navigation, instrument approaches, or as a primary instrument flight reference. During IFR operations they may be considered only an aid to situational awareness."
 
Can you guys file master flight plans or is that an Alaska thing?
 
midlifeflyer said:
This.

I think many of us got used to stating equipment codes as student pilots learning them, but they are not required for flight following. I haven’t guven one in decades and have never been asked.

For that matter, I’ve never been asked for one for pop-up IFR either, although I have heard of Centers requiring ICAO codes in more recent years. (Controllers? Center computer requirement?)
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Similarly here, was taught to give the /G /U, etc... on the initial call-up.. Was also taught if given an assigned course and altitude (think Class Bravo) to include that when handed off. I haven't stopped doing it.

tsts4 said:
Bottom line is there are no navigation equipment requirements for flight following (which is not a flight plan) so no need to pass that info to ATC as part of the request. If during the period of receiving service you are given an instruction that you can’t comply with due to equipment limitations you say unable and work out a solution with ATC.
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Probably one of the reasons you should do it - to help them with their workload otherwise you may hear "Radar service terminated, squawk VFR and have a good day.."

Palmpilot said:
Depends on whether you're flying IFR or not. In AIM TBL 1-1-6, Note 4 says, "VFR and hand−held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR navigation, instrument approaches, or as a primary instrument flight reference. During IFR operations they may be considered only an aid to situational awareness."
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Yes, but I think the question was for VFR Flight Following...
 
Ventucky Red said:
Similarly here, was taught to give the /G /U, etc... on the initial call-up.. Was also taught if given an assigned course and altitude (think Class Bravo) to include that when handed off. I haven't stopped doing it.



Probably one of the reasons you should do it - to help them with their workload otherwise you may hear "Radar service terminated, squawk VFR and have a good day.."



Yes, but I think the question was for VFR Flight Following...
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To be honest, I think most controllers just default to /U. That’s what I used to do and probably why those on here have said the controller won’t ask. Can there be a problem with assuming /U vs getting the actual equipment suffix? Not really. You’re basically worst casing the aircraft’s navigation capabilities. Now making them /G when they’re actually /U, that can be an issue. Then again, seems like most controllers don’t bother to look at the strip and treat all aircraft as /G anyway.

So, will you be asked? Probably not. Does ATC need to indicate the equipment suffix for a VFR on their end? Yes.
IMG_8765.jpeg
 
I raised a related question on a Facebook ATC group (The Landline) which also answers questions from pilots. Considering the fact that the FAA wants pilots to use exclusively ICAO codes when filing flight plans, I asked whether I should give the old slant code when communicating with ATC over the radio, and was told "That's all we use."Considering that fact, it really sucks that the FAA has removed the list of slant codes from the AIM! At least they're still in the controller's manual. I also found them on Wikipedia and FlightAware. Of course, this is mainly an issue when a pilot asks for an popup IFR clearance in an aircraft with no IFR GPS (or an out-of-date database, depending on how the flight manual supplement for the GPS is worded).
 
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Dana said:
Does an uncertified GPS (app on an android or iphone) count?

I once had ATC ask me if I could navigate direct to a waypoint (which was being used to route traffic to a fly-in) and I could using Avare, but once they realized how slow I was ("increase your speed"... "unable") they took me out of the flow and had me go direct to the airport.
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My response was always “I’ll only need one vector .”

That’s how we went direct on radar vectors in the 727 on a transcon…
 
Tarheelpilot said:
My response was always “I’ll only need one vector .”

That’s how we went direct on radar vectors in the 727 on a transcon…
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I think it was on the old AOPA forum that I mentioned being instructed to fly direct to an intersection while IFR in a /U aircraft. One of the forum participants objected to the fact that I asked for a vector, but as far as I know, the only equipment legally required to fly an assigned heading is a compass and a heading indicator (DG or HSI).
 
Palmpilot said:
I think it was on the old AOPA forum that I mentioned being instructed to fly direct to an intersection while IFR in a /U aircraft. One of the forum participants objected to the fact that I asked for a vector, but as far as I know, the only equipment legally required to fly an assigned heading is a compass and a heading indicator (DG or HSI).
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We would ask for direct and after a short pause…. Kitty hawk… how many vectors will you need for direct Spokane? … only one Indy center ….

KHA xxx fly heading xxx radar vectors direct Spokane.

We never needed another vector. Weird. Those Indy center guys were awesome.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
We would ask for direct and after a short pause…. Kitty hawk… how many vectors will you need for direct Spokane? … only one Indy center ….

KHA xxx fly heading xxx radar vectors direct Spokane.

We never needed another vector. Weird. Those Indy center guys were awesome.
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That is some damn fine vectoring!
 
Palmpilot said:
I think it was on the old AOPA forum that I mentioned being instructed to fly direct to an intersection while IFR in a /U aircraft. One of the forum participants objected to the fact that I asked for a vector, but as far as I know, the only equipment legally required to fly an assigned heading is a compass and a heading indicator (DG or HSI).
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BTDT, There was a common dialog in the early ways when panel GPS was not common but a lot of us carried handhelds. it came down to ATC offering direct, the pilot mentioning a handheld, and the controller giving a loooong vector,

The applicable rules required radar contact for an off-route clearance even with certified GPS.

But some people got serious twisted undies about it.
 
murphey said:
Is there any hope,that those questions will be removed from the IFR written? The ones that say “the aircraft has [xxxx, yyyy], what do you put in the equipment category on the flight plan?
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The correct answer should be “look at the chart of equipment types and select the code that matches”. Just like memorizing TOMATO FLAMES - it’s stuff that is not time-critical knowledge. It doesn’t need to be memorized.
 
ateamer said:
The correct answer should be “look at the chart of equipment types and select the code that matches”. Just like memorizing TOMATO FLAMES - it’s stuff that is not time-critical knowledge. It doesn’t need to be memorized.
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Tell that to the FAA.
 
The guys in Center don’t want to be bothered by the guys and gals below 18,000 so the odds of them asking much of anything are extremely remote.
 
That does bring up a good point. What is all that ICAO soup? I'm not instrument current, so I haven't worried about it, but if I were to become current, what would I put down? IIRC all three of the club airplanes are different.
 
murphey said:
Is there any hope,that those questions will be removed from the IFR written? The ones that say “the aircraft has [xxxx, yyyy], what do you put in the equipment category on the flight plan?
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Yeah, not on my test, or study guides, or that test bank everyone uses.
/G
 
Ghery said:
That does bring up a good point. What is all that ICAO soup? I'm not instrument current, so I haven't worried about it, but if I were to become current, what would I put down? IIRC all three of the club airplanes are different.
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You may be able to memorize that ICAO jazz but, in my experience, most pilots just take the time to read the ICAO equipment codes and figure out what your ride has on the ground.

In your case do it for all three and save a note somewhere handy for quick reference later.
 
Ghery said:
That does bring up a good point. What is all that ICAO soup? I'm not instrument current, so I haven't worried about it, but if I were to become current, what would I put down? IIRC all three of the club airplanes are different.
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An abbreviated version.

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