What to do ? shady employment

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So, as a low hour pilot I feel lucky just have a job. Not only that I was able to find a job locally ! On top of all that a friend got me the job.

Soooo.... what I now know from working there. I know 100% certainty that my friend has pencil whipped the hours in his log book as well as given himself an endorsement to teach in an aircraft that the company has. The company lost their LOA from the FAA and recently got it back. All the paper work looks to be in order. The owner claimed the "awe shucks I didn't know" defense when the FAA shut him down for maintenance not being done and paper work issues. It was believable until recently when he asked me to look at something as a wet-ink A & P and it turns out he is pretty knowledgeable about aviation maintenance.

So I've been talking to the competitor's business about working there. The place where I'm currently at doesn't have a great reputation. I feel like talking to the other place like I'm cheating on my wife or something. I just want out but I also at the same time want the FAA to find out about this guy. I don't want to be a rat for one and two the guy did give me a break and three ! my friend recommended me for the job. So if I were to leave and then the FAA were to suddenly start looking around I think it would be pretty obvious.

ARRRGH ! what to do what to do ?
 
Just leave and go next door. You are not under oath to report things, but if you stay, eventually your signature will be somewhere that gets you a ration of crap.
 
:yeahthat:

Is someone's life in imminent danger?
May I humbly suggest that as a litmus test!

Years ago, I actually believed people appreciated those that do the right thing and help correct a wrong because it's wrong. Boy, was I wrong.

Likely, if the guy is slimey, things will catch up to him.
 
Rats aren't the only ones who desert sinking ships -- smart sailors do, too. If the hull is rotten, find another ship in which to sail and don't look back -- captains who know their ships are rotten but sail them anyway are not owed that sort of loyalty.
 
Leave and move on. The aviation community is very small,be careful what you say as it will get around. Even competitors talk to each other.
 
Part on good terms if possible, just saying you've found other employment. Beyond that, keep quiet unless (as Jaybird suggested) there is imminent danger. If the guy keeps digging his own grave you'll be in the clear.
 
If what is happening is putting lives in jeopardy, and you can live with the consequences of not saying anything, don't say anything. Otherwise, bail then speak up.
 
Norman said:
Part on good terms if possible, just saying you've found other employment. Beyond that, keep quiet unless (as Jaybird suggested) there is imminent danger. If the guy keeps digging his own grave you'll be in the clear.
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Speak up if he's digging someone else's grave, too. Even if it's not imminent.

That may be difficult socially and professionally, but it's really the only ethical thing to do.

If he omits a safety wire, probably no one is going to die on the test flight. But that may be different 6 months later.

If he pencil-whips an annual, almost certainly no one is going to die on the next flight. But the failing control pulley he would have seen would be fairly likely to kill someone before the next annual.

The ethical threshold is, like we pilots are often told, is if you would be comfortable explaining your decision to the NTSB. "I didn't want to make waves at work" isn't going to satisfy that.
 
Part of paying your dues is learning to recognize a bad employment situation and having the cajones to leave. Just about every pro I know has been in that position at least once during their career. You definitely don't want to be forced into doing something that will get you violated. In today's tough job market a violation or suspension can be a career ender.
 
Well, I don't think I would be forced into anything, they would just get someone else willing to do it - RE: my friend forging an endorsement to teach in a certain aircraft. Now that is the question I guess I really need to figure out. Is my friend doing that an imminent danger to someone ?

I've pretty much decided to leave. If nothing else I don't want to be guilty by association.
 
Repeat after me: You are only as good as your reputation.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

Part of your reputation is who you work for and associate with.

It is much easier to find a job while you're employed than it is after you are out of work.

Unless there is imminent danger to the lives of others, you have no obligation to turn them in. Unless you have hard proof, you'll only hurt your reputation. Ditto if your signature is in the wrong place and you have proof of danger to others.

Personally, I'd leave like it's a sinking ship & not look back.
 
PilotReporter said:
Hello,

My name is Brooke Hil, and I am a reporter for a major media outlet based in New York City.

We're looking to do a story on pilots who have at times become disgruntled or frustrated with the flying process/corporate airline structure/etc and would be willing to be interviewed about their experience.

If interested, please email me directly at BrookeHil87@gmail.com. Thank you!

Best Regards,

Brooke Hil
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The media hasn't exactly been very honest with the public about the information it gathers from pilots. The recent ABC News spot where they tricked and twisted everything that the guy that gives upset training in Alabama said comes to mind.
 
We're looking to do a story on pilots who have at times become disgruntled or frustrated with the flying process/corporate airline structure/etc and would be willing to be interviewed about their experience.
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Sounds like a FOX news organization by not getting both sides of the story. What about all those that enjoy their experiences? The sad state of reporting, only showing one side.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
Sounds like a FOX news organization by not getting both sides of the story. What about all those that enjoy their experiences? The sad state of reporting, only showing one side.
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Maybe they could do a piece on how much pilots hate media reports on aviation? There'd be no shortage of people willing to talk about that.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
Sounds like a FOX news organization by not getting both sides of the story. What about all those that enjoy their experiences? The sad state of reporting, only showing one side.
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must resist going SZ with the response....
 
Ron Levy said:
Rats aren't the only ones who desert sinking ships -- smart sailors do, too. If the hull is rotten, find another ship in which to sail and don't look back -- captains who know their ships are rotten but sail them anyway are not owed that sort of loyalty.
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Nice maritime analogy, Ron. I thought you were Air Force?

-Rich
 
for safety, reputation, and sanity i would leave and voice my concerns to the fsdo. after all aviators should always be vigilant about safety.
 
Move on, dont say a word good or bad about the other shop. It'll sort itself out. If you involve the feds, you will be wrapped up in the mess this will eventually disintegrate into.
 
weilke said:
Move on, dont say a word good or bad about the other shop. It'll sort itself out. If you involve the feds, you will be wrapped up in the mess this will eventually disintegrate into.
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Solid advice.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
Sounds like a FOX news organization by not getting both sides of the story.
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Way to bring the liberal lies into aviation topic. That'll sure guide our Unregistered friend well in his A&P career!
 
Get clear of this guy and the company as quickly and as cleanly as you can.

Preserve friendships if they are meaningful but 'going along to get along' in an environment like that will eventually put you in a direct safety/ethical quandry and that is not a place anyone should ever knowingly let themselves get to.

Ask me how I know.

'Gimp
 

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Ghery said:
AF ship (if they built ships)...
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Reminds me of the joke about how the AF builds based vs the Navy .

The Navy goes in and builds the piers and infrastructure to support the ships and then, if there is money left over, they build the MWR stuff.

The AF goes in and builds the golf course, exchange, barracks....etc and when they run out of money, they request more money to build the runway.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Reminds me of the joke about how the AF builds based vs the Navy .

The Navy goes in and builds the piers and infrastructure to support the ships and then, if there is money left over, they build the MWR stuff.

The AF goes in and builds the golf course, exchange, barracks....etc and when they run out of money, they request more money to build the runway.
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Not too far from the truth. When flying in Iraq we would often stop in Tallil for fuel. On and off you would see Army, Navy/Marine and foreign aircraft based there. On my last mission we made this stop. As we got out and stretched our legs I noticed that they suddenly had paved side walks and flush toilets. As a side note one of my great fears over there was that my side arm would fall into a porta potty. "Gee sir. I'm not sure WHAT happened to my 9mm."
So I went into base operations and asked why the sudden improvements. They said the Air Force was going to base crews there, but refused to do so until the facilities were "modernized".
 
Or that huge building built for the marines that they recently said they did not want. Workout room , sauna, the whole 9 yards. Cost millions.
 
Well, I'm a month behind on this thread, but for what it is worth, just find another job and move on. I say that because it is going to be pretty hard to find a place to work in GA that isn't pushing the limits. I don't know all that is going on where you are currently working, but it has been my experience that they are not the only ones.
 
Lots of starter jobs (in many fields) are with employers who hire the minimally-qualified because they have to. The reason the openings exist is because anyone qualified enough to leave for a better job does so.

I have felt this way about some shady employers in the past, but with the perspective of a few more years have realized blowing the whistle would only have served to deny the next newbie a place to start.

I suspect there have been situations like this for as long as aviation has existed.
 
PW_Plack said:
Lots of starter jobs (in many fields) are with employers who hire the minimally-qualified because they have to. The reason the openings exist is because anyone qualified enough to leave for a better job does so.

I have felt this way about some shady employers in the past, but with the perspective of a few more years have realized blowing the whistle would only have served to deny the next newbie a place to start.
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Maybe temporarily, but if the newbies would grow a pair and not work at a place like that, the bad places would go out of business, and better ones would come in to fill the void - Not to mention, the better employers' source of not-so-newbies would dry up and they'd have to start hiring newbies.

Nobody does anybody any favors by working at a shady operation.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Maybe temporarily, but if the newbies would grow a pair and not work at a place like that, the bad places would go out of business, and better ones would come in to fill the void - Not to mention, the better employers' source of not-so-newbies would dry up and they'd have to start hiring newbies.

Nobody does anybody any favors by working at a shady operation.
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It's the nature of a junior person to trust an authority figure, in that they're doing the right thing. Said new hire may have just came from a school environment; most honestly believe that FAA regs are followed to the letter.

It may take them awhile for them to lose the taste of Kool-Aid and realize the situation, like the OP.
 
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I think the friend thing was the hold up.

Let me say, friends are highly overrated. You may think you need them, but life goes on without them, and life generally ends without a trace of them.

Do what's right for you and family.
 
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