What time can I log without a medical

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Jjj2727

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I currently hold a Private Pilot certificate but no longer hold my medical. If I were to fly with an instructor what time would I be able to log? I have read some interpretations to the regulations that say as long as I am with an instructor and hold my private certificate I am still able to log PIC if I am the sole manipulator of the controls with a qualified instructor also in the airplane, but I have also heard elsewhere I can only log total time. Any clarification would be very helpful.
 
All of it – if you are in a light sport aircraft and have a drivers license.
 
The reg that allows logging PIC says nothing about medical qualification, only that you’re rated. No “interpretation” required.
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time.

(1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights-

(i) Except when logging flight time under § 61.159(c), when the pilot is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated, or has sport pilot privileges for that category and class of aircraft, if the aircraft class rating is appropriate;
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You are a PP, rated in category and class (ASEL).
Therefore, any time you're the sole manipulator of the controls, you can log PIC time, as well as flight time.
No matter how weird that seems, that's what the regulations say.
 
So the OP can log PIC time even when 61.113 has no provision for a private pilot to be PIC in the scenario described? That does, indeed, seem weird.

Is this a case where you're not going to get in trouble for logging the time, but you're at risk of the FAA throwing the book at you or your insurance denying a claim if an incident occurs during such a flight?
 
Jim_R said:
So the OP can log PIC time even when 61.113 has no provision for a private pilot to be PIC in the scenario described? That does, indeed, seem weird.

Is this a case where you're not going to get in trouble for logging the time, but you're at risk of the FAA throwing the book at you or your insurance denying a claim if an incident occurs during such a flight?
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Logging is not acting.
 
The lack of a current medical prevents you from ACTING as PIC.

As long as another pilot is the ACTing PIC, it doesn't have to be a CFI, you can LOG PIC (61.51) during the time in which you are the sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft in which you are rated.

If you are logging PIC when you aren't legal to ACT as PIC, you can make a note of who the acting PIC was in the remarks section of the logbook. This may be useful if anyone ever asks about the flight during a period where your medical was not current.
 
Jim_R said:
Is this a case where you're not going to get in trouble for logging the time, but you're at risk of the FAA throwing the book at you or your insurance denying a claim if an incident occurs during such a flight?
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If you crash, don't log it. o_O
 
Jim_R said:
So the OP can log PIC time even when 61.113 has no provision for a private pilot to be PIC in the scenario described? That does, indeed, seem weird.

Is this a case where you're not going to get in trouble for logging the time, but you're at risk of the FAA throwing the book at you or your insurance denying a claim if an incident occurs during such a flight?
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It’s a long-established policy with the FAA, and if the insurance companies care about logging vs acting, they’d ask.
 
Jim_R said:
So the OP can log PIC time even when 61.113 has no provision for a private pilot to be PIC in the scenario described? That does, indeed, seem weird.
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Yes, the FAA has this weird practice of using "PIC" in two different ways. "Pilot in Command" is defined in 14 CFR 1.1. Notice that it doesn't say you have to be the person manipulating the controls to be the PIC. Logging PIC as sole manipulator of the controls is governed by 14 CFR 61.51(e)(1)(i). Notice that this reg doesn't say that you have to be the PIC to manipulate the controls and log it as such.

Is this a case where you're not going to get in trouble for logging the time, but you're at risk of the FAA throwing the book at you or your insurance denying a claim if an incident occurs during such a flight?
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The FAA will not throw the book at you; it's explicitly written into the regulations: Unless it's a type of operation for which no medical certificate is required, 14 CFR 61.3(c) says that you need a medical certificate to "serve as a required pilot flight crewmember." If someone else is acting as PIC in an aircraft that only requires one pilot, then you are not a required pilot crewmember even when you're the one manipulating the controls.

Whether the insurance company would have a problem with it would be a question for the insurance company.

[Edit: If the logbook entry were not being signed by a CFI, I would probably identify who the PIC was in the remarks section.]
 
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MauleSkinner said:
The reg that allows logging PIC says nothing about medical qualification, only that you’re rated. No “interpretation” required.
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yep.

Logging Flight Time 101:
If you are a recreational, private or commercial pilot, you may log PIC any time you are the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft you are rated for. [61.51(e)(1)(i)] “Rated” means the aircraft category and class (and type, if a type rating is necessary for the aircraft) that is listed on the back of your pilot certificate. Nothing else matters. Not instrument ratings. Not endorsements for high performance, complex, or tailwheel aircraft. Not medical currency. Not flight reviews. Not night currency. Nothing. There are no known exceptions.
 
Thank you all for the responses! It makes sense now what the regulations state. I’m still confused because I keep asking DE’s and they all tell me I need my medical.
 
Jjj2727 said:
Thank you all for the responses! It makes sense now what the regulations state. I’m still confused because I keep asking DE’s and they all tell me I need my medical.
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DEs aren’t necessarily experts, unfortunately.
 
ok, but no medical....so then I would assume also no current BFR
Can't log PIC without a flight review can you?
 
Brad W said:
ok, but no medical....so then I would assume also no current BFR
Can't log PIC without a flight review can you?
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The requirement for a flight review is in 61.56(c). It only says you need one to act as pilot in command. As discussed previously, you don't need to act as pilot in command to log PIC time.
 
Brad W said:
?
(c) Except as provided in paragraphs (d), (e), and (g) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft unless, since the beginning of the 24th calendar month before the month in which that pilot acts as pilot in command, that person has -

(1) Accomplished a flight review given in an aircraft for which that pilot is rated by an authorized instructor and....
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ONE MORE TIME.

There is a difference between ACTING as PIC and LOGGING PIC.

You are correct, you cannot ACT as PIC without medical, FR, etc. But that doesn't mean you cannot LOG PIC, if there is someone else ACTING as PIC.
 
MauleSkinner said:
DEs aren’t necessarily experts, unfortunately.
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You can remove the word "necessarily." They're nothing put politically connected flight instructors and the only thing they are endowed with is the flight test monopoly.
 
flyingron said:
You can remove the word "necessarily." They're nothing put politically connected flight instructors and the only thing they are endowed with is the flight test monopoly.
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Some of them ARE experts, regardless of how they’re chosen.
 
Jjj2727 said:
I currently hold a Private Pilot certificate but no longer hold my medical. If I were to fly with an instructor what time would I be able to log? I have read some interpretations to the regulations that say as long as I am with an instructor and hold my private certificate I am still able to log PIC if I am the sole manipulator of the controls with a qualified instructor also in the airplane, but I have also heard elsewhere I can only log total time. Any clarification would be very helpful.
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Standard, daylight savings or GMT.
 
Low wing.


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MauleSkinner said:
Born in a barn? ;)
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giphy.gif



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bbchien said:
Like Mark writes, most pilots done' unerstand that there is:
(1) PIC- responsible for the safety of the flight and there is
(2) PIC Sole manipulator of the controls in an aircraft in which you are otherwise rated.

CFI
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And therefore, somehow, the simple, plain language of the reg must be wrong because it doesn’t seem to say what I think it should.:rolleyes:
 
Yes, logging and acting are technically two different things, but there’s no logbook that I’ve seen that has columns to differentiate the two unless you specifically state it in the remarks. You’ve gotta be careful there if you’re trying to legally follow the reg.
 
RyanB said:
Yes, logging and acting are technically two different things, but there’s no logbook that I’ve seen that has columns to differentiate the two unless you specifically state it in the remarks. You’ve gotta be careful there if you’re trying to legally follow the reg.
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How so?
 
RyanB said:
Yes, logging and acting are technically two different things, but there’s no logbook that I’ve seen that has columns to differentiate the two unless you specifically state it in the remarks. You’ve gotta be careful there if you’re trying to legally follow the reg.
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Why do you need to differentiate to follow the reg? You can only log PIC time based on acting as PIC if two pilots are required, which would usually be apparent, or write "safety pilot" if you want to remember. But it's equivalent in the reg.
 
Lindberg said:
Why do you need to differentiate to follow the reg? You can only log PIC time based on acting as PIC if two pilots are required, which would usually be apparent, or write "safety pilot" if you want to remember. But it's equivalent in the reg.
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If a logbook is inspected for some reason the FAA may question why a flight while out of passenger currency showed PIC time but not solo and no instruction received. A little note in the remarks could save some headaches.
 
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