What plane should I buy?

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golfmogul

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golfmogul
I'll be working with Synergy in Oregon to build a Vans RV 10 & own it 100%. But that will take time, so, in the meantime, any suggestions on what kind of plane I should consider getting for the following mission (I'd use this interim plane for just 18-30 months while I wait for my kit & build it with Synergy's help & then I'll sell the interim plane & just use the RV 10). Here's my typical mission: Fly with my 2 kids, my dog, 100lbs of luggage, and tanks filled to tabs (50 gallons?) from U42 in Utah (high DA over mountains) to places like Phoenix or Oceanside CA (its fine if we have to stop once for fuel to PHX or OCN). So, I need at least 900 lbs of useful load (this would also include the weight of the gas), but 1000lbs or 1050lbs is ideal. I strongly prefer having AC but could survive without it. I will train IFR in this interim plane, so it needs to work well for learning IFR. Budget: ideally around $150k or less, but I would consider up to $250k for something epic. Must have 4 seats (5 is ok too ... lol this is starting to sound like a G3 Cirrus 22T except those are more than $250k and they have slightly less useful load when it has AC which I want). Many of my flights will be just me or me and 1 other person, so it would be nice to have good speed and performance (GPH) by not hauling a station wagon w/6 seats (4 of which would often be empty) like a Cherokee 6 300 (those are hundreds more useful load than I need). I don't like (and won't consider) high wing aircraft, so that limits it a bit. Needs to be a certified plane (no experimental for this first round). Other things I may have missed that would help you recommend, just ask. I'm a new pilot, and with all I've read about fixed vs retractable landing gear, I strongly prefer fixed. Thx!
 
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Would need a little more info. How big are the kids and dog? Looking for fixed gear or retract? You mention the vans and cirrus, both of which are fixed. But then you mention your possible price point and I don't get why you'd want the RV-10 other than flexibility on what's under the hood and on the dash.

I've always been a simple guy that doesn't need speed, and enjoy how simple and easy the Piper's are. I'd look at a Dakota.
 
Racerx said:
Would need a little more info. How big are the kids and dog? Looking for fixed gear or retract? You mention the vans and cirrus, both of which are fixed. But then you mention your possible price point and I don't get why you'd want the RV-10 other than flexibility on what's under the hood and on the dash.

I've always been a simple guy that doesn't need speed, and enjoy how simple and easy the Piper's are. I'd look at a Dakota.
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Thx for the reply. I'm not looking for recommendations re: my build of the RV 10. For my interim plane, as I said, I strongly prefer to avoid retract gear. The price point I mention here is for the interim plane. For that interim plane, I need a total Useful load of 900-1100. I'm 185 w/clothes, my kids are 175 and 150, my dog is 40 growing to 50, plus luggage, plus gas.
 
Umm...why not buy an already-built RV-10?
Sell it when yours is done.
 
golfmogul said:
Thx for the reply. I'm not looking for recommendations re: my build of the RV 10. For my interim plane, as I said, I strongly prefer to avoid retract gear. The price point I mention here is for the interim plane. For that interim plane, I need a total Useful load of 900-1100. I'm 185 w/clothes, my kids are 175 and 150, my dog is 40 growing to 50, plus luggage, plus gas.
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Really probably should have read the last few sentences. I'd look at the pa-28 Dakota. Not the turbo Dakota however. Good luck with the build! Been contemplating an RV-10 build myself. Not that I need another hobby.
 
golfmogul said:
That is my ideal path but for personal reasons I need my interim plane to NOT be experimental. Thx
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Just curious, why not?
Insurance won’t be any higher.
Maintenance will be similar or lower.

UPDATE:
Just reread - personal reasons. no reply necessary.
 
Sounds like A36 Bonanza would be a right fit for you. 35-series may work too, depending on how much luggage.
 
5QK said:
Get a mooney
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..is incongruous with:
golfmogul said:
and they have slightly less useful load when it has AC which I want
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golfmogul said:
and with all I've read about fixed vs retractable landing gear, I strongly prefer fixed
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-later Moonies have awful use load stats, and earlier ones won't give OP the AC and the cabin comfort and space (2 kids, dog, luggage, etc.). Unless you enjoy being Mooney I doubt a Mooney would be an appropriate plane for OP and his mission. Plus he said he doesn't want RG.

Golfmogul, it does sound like you're painting a picture of a G5 SR22T which will give you AC, FIKI, and decent useful load with their gross weight increase to 3,600 lbs after the G3. However, at $250K I doubt you'll find any. Even at $250K for a G3 you'll find limited examples that are nice. You're already building the RV10 (or plan to), otherwise I would say that the Lancair Mako is worth considering. There's a reason Cirrus sells as many planes as they do, they've built a plane that fits most people's current mission profile and is commensurate with 21st century tech as opposed to being stuck in 1972


...what about this? https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/30450983/2004-columbia-400 or this https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/67868819/2005-columbia-400
It's basically a Cirrus.. has A/C - fast, and at under $200K it's a bargain
 
EugeneR said:
Sounds like A36 Bonanza would be a right fit for you. 35-series may work too, depending on how much luggage.
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I had a whole response written up recommending a Bo, but then I saw he doesn't want RG

If he can get past the RG thing though then I agree, the Bonanza would fit this mission very well, and within his price point (but for $200K though I'd still go with the Lancair :))
 
Tantalum said:
I had a whole response written up recommending a Bo, but then I saw he doesn't want RG
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If he wants something more modern and with fixed gear, then it’s possible to find A/C equipped Cirrus SR22 G2 for around $250K. G3 would be much more expensive though.
 
Cessna T182T. Turbo for DA, fixed gear for simplicity, just enough space for your kids and dog. Still in production and every mechanic can wrench on it. The sexy option is an early Colombia 400. Fixed gear, fast, enough useful load, factory AC. But certainly not a trainer.
 
Geosync said:
Cessna T182T. Turbo for DA, fixed gear for simplicity, just enough space for your kids and dog. Still in production and every mechanic can wrench on it. The sexy option is an early Colombia 400. Fixed gear, fast, enough useful load, factory AC. But certainly not a trainer.
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He said he wouldn't entertain a high wing.. so that leaves Columbia
 
Tantalum said:
..is incongruous with:


-later Moonies have awful use load stats, and earlier ones won't give OP the AC and the cabin comfort and space (2 kids, dog, luggage, etc.). Unless you enjoy being Mooney I doubt a Mooney would be an appropriate plane for OP and his mission. Plus he said he doesn't want RG.

Golfmogul, it does sound like you're painting a picture of a G5 SR22T which will give you AC, FIKI, and decent useful load with their gross weight increase to 3,600 lbs after the G3. However, at $250K I doubt you'll find any. Even at $250K for a G3 you'll find limited examples that are nice. You're already building the RV10 (or plan to), otherwise I would say that the Lancair Mako is worth considering. There's a reason Cirrus sells as many planes as they do, they've built a plane that fits most people's current mission profile and is commensurate with 21st century tech as opposed to being stuck in 1972


...what about this? https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/30450983/2004-columbia-400 or this https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/67868819/2005-columbia-400
It's basically a Cirrus.. has A/C - fast, and at under $200K it's a bargain
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I'm LOVING what I'm seeing on these Columbia 400s! Freaking gorgeous plane. I had never heard of this plane before you mentioned them here. Def going to go deep on researching them - thx!
 
golfmogul said:
I'm LOVING what I'm seeing on these Columbia 400s! Freaking gorgeous plane. I had never heard of this plane before you mentioned them here. Def going to go deep on researching them - thx!
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Cool! Definitely worth research and reading up on. Very amazing and underappreciated airplane. Apparently they're built like rocks as well.. wing can allegedly handle 9+ g's

It eventually became the Cessna TTx which was in most objective ways superior to SR22 however no parachute and poorly (ie, not at all) marketed. The TTx had G2000 avionics with digital climate controls, etc
 
Short body Mooney will lift a half ton, fly 140 knots on 9-10 gallons an hour. Suck it up and raise the gear, you go faster and the Johnson bar is bulletproof. Rock stable, there isn't a better IFR platform. Plenty of room in back for little kids. Sorry, a vintage Mooney is the biggest bang for your buck in GA. The biggest risk is you might decide you like the Mooney so much you'll bail on the RV.
 
A 182 or 210 would work well for what you need (capacity, capability) and would be easy to resell and would also provide a good platform for learning instruments. But they don't fit what you want (no high wing, no retracts). A Bonanza would also work but its a retract. Of course you could just snap the gear handle off and fly it with the gear down all the time. ;)

A Cherokee 235 or Dakota would probably work. A Tiger might, but not sure about the useful load on those. There probably isn't much beyond those with fixed gear and low wings that'll carry your load without getting into the Cherokee Six/Saratoga territory.
 
steingar said:
Short body Mooney will lift a half ton, fly 140 knots on 9-10 gallons an hour.
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Mooneys are great in terms of fuel economy.

However My Bonanza will cruise at 165 KTAS on 10.5-11gph at 10000ft. ;)
 
Juliet Hotel said:
A 182 or 210 would work well for what you need (capacity, capability) and would be easy to resell and would also provide a good platform for learning instruments. But they don't fit what you want (no high wing, no retracts). A Bonanza would also work but its a retract. Of course you could just snap the gear handle off and fly it with the gear down all the time. ;)

A Cherokee 235 or Dakota would probably work. A Tiger might, but not sure about the useful load on those. There probably isn't much beyond those with fixed gear and low wings that'll carry your load without getting into the Cherokee Six/Saratoga territory.
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Tigers generally have a UL over 900, some close to 1000. My newer, heavier AG5B has 915 and will perform admirably grossed up. Hard to screw up CG, unlike in a 4 seat Bonanza.
 
Get a Cessna 205
Buy a Diamond DA40
Tecnam P2010 MKII

Always love the guy who just dumps a plane type without any contribution to the thread discussion.
 
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Very few airplanes that fit your bill. Fixed gear, not a high wing, 1000 lbs useful load, with AC for under 250k, preferably 150?

Honestly, I can't think of anything that fits that. If you want to compromise on something, there are choices, but I'm finding nothing that fits this bill. So what are you willing to give on?

Assuming AC is a requirement, the choice is...nothing. The least expensive airplane with A/C is an old King Air and it's a twin.
 
Late model Cardinal. The crank out vent windows will alleviate the need for A/C.
 
Tantalum said:
^The Columbia 400 fits his bill..
-low wing; check
-very fast; check
-AC; check
-under $250K; check
-useful load of 1,100 lbs; check
-fixed gear; check
-not 6 seats; check

https://www.flyhpa.com/cessna-400/#:~:text=Maximum takeoff weight: 3,600 lb,KTAS (435 km/h)
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I hear from Columbia owners the Columbia 350 has some performance advantages over the 400. Here's a link to Cessna's marketing paper on the differences between Columbia 350/400/SR22/SR22T. Take some of Cessna's view of Cirrus with a grain of salt, but much of the data is good especially comparing the 350/400.

Columbia 350/400/SR-22 Comparison PDF

Personally, I slightly prefer the side stick over the side yoke.
 
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