What other professions are okay with late-night messaging?

RussR

RussR

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Oddly worded question, sorry.

As a CFI, I get texts or other messages from clients at pretty much any hour of the day. If I'm awake, I'll usually try to answer them right then. I have absolutely no problem with this, and consider it normal business. Heck, I consider (most) of my clients to be friends as well, and if they need some advice on planning a trip, or weather, or what a symbol means on an approach they're looking at, that's fine and great and I'm glad to help. And, quite frankly, it's in my self-interest as well, for future business.

I have also initiated contact sometimes at weird hours, if some interesting situation came up or I thought of something they need to know. Not as often, but sometimes.

I assume this is normal for CFIs, or at least independent ones like me. Is it?

We're not talking middle of the night here, but to me, anything from about 6 AM to about 10 PM I'll generally try to answer right away.

I was mentioning this to some other (non-aviation) people a while ago, and they thought it was about the weirdest thing ever. Why would I respond to, or initiate contact with, clients outside of normal-ish business hours? And of course, this help I provide is free.

So my question is, is this similar for other professions? Do accountants get asked random questions at 9 PM? Piano teachers? Doctors? (Man, I can't seem to get in touch with my doctor reliably even DURING business hours.) Golf instructors?

Or is this a weird quirk of aviation?

I guess we have to exclude salaried positions here.
 
My CFI and I (he was independent) texted at all hours.

My customers know they can text me anytime day or night. I set my phone to go to silent mode at 11:00pm and starts up again at 6:00am.

Since my customers are very important to me, I don't mind at all. They work long hours in the Oil Field, and although my office closes at 5pm, we field calls whenever we are available.
 
I've always asked every CFI....do u mind texts? every one said it's fine. now it's up to me to determine what's reasonable. I don't think I'd ever txt a CFI (olderish one) after about 9pm and 10-11 for a youngerish one. but really, I can't think of any reason to txt that late. typically it's been something like "let's touch base and make the call on tomorrows flight at 8:30pm".

now I'm in IT and those mother effers will txt me 24/7, doesn't matter what time it is.
 
eman1200 said:
..now I'm in IT and those mother effers will txt me 24/7, doesn't matter what time it is.
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SWMBO works in marketing for a large beverage company. There are idiots on her team who will crank up with group texts at 5AM Eastern. Morons.

But a CFI? I'd text within normal hours (8AM-9PM) unless something extraordinary is going on (broken plane, change in weather, etc). That said, it is up to the CFI to offer guidance if s/he's OK with texts (or calls) that are farther out of normal hours.
 
My current position (government job) requires that I am able to be reached 24/7. My first career (also government) required a 45-minute recall. Not only was I to make myself available 24/7, but I also had to be back in the office within 45 minutes when they called. For the (short) season that I taught history in a Middle School, parents thought I should be made available 24/7 too.
 
I'm no longer in any profession (thankfully!), but traveling through multiple time zones, get calls or texts early or late where I am. (When I'm in Arizona, it makes me crazy that East Coast folks habitually call at 5 in the morning, or whatever.)

I happily discovered recently that my Samsung smartphone let me set "do not disturb" with various degrees of selectivity, so that I now only let those on my contact list get through during my desired nighttime hours. I imagine you could do something like that on most phones these days.
 
One of the items in our discussion was that I don't mind at all if I get a text at 3 AM - I know how to use the "Do Not Disturb" function that's on most phones. It's not going to beep, buzz, or do anything, so it won't wake me up. You can't sleep, so you decided to review the POH and have a question? Send it! I'll answer it when I get up.
 
there's a setting on my iphone to disable calls/txts at specified times, unless I get multiple calls/txts within a certain timeframe. this way, if it's an emergency and someone calls a few times, the call will come thru. otherwise it's shutty time.
 
In some countries, its illegal to call or text after working hours. but again the beauty of text is, i dont care about it until i want to read it (not a CFI)
 
I have no more of an issue getting a text at 2am as I have getting an email at 2am. If I'm up and feel like responding, I will. Otherwise I'll wait until my earliest convenience.
 
Good discussion, but to TRY to get back to my original questions (hah, fat chance! :D):

Assuming you have no issue with messaging your CFI at 9 PM:

Would you think it weird to message your tennis coach at 9 PM (I was thinking about buying this new racket)? Your piano teacher (I was working on Moonlight Sonata and had some questions)? Your yard service (I was thinking about switching fertilizers)? Or any other hourly-type, similar service provider?

If you are IN one of these type of professions, is it standard to get messages at unusual times? Is it considered rude, or a normal part of business?
 
I get and make phone calls and texts from about 9:30 at night to about 1:00 pm the next day....but then again I work overnights, so that's my normal hours for me and most of the people that I deal with.
 
My work schedule (from home) usually allows me to get most work done after all the distractions of the day are over. I tend to work from 2200 to 0400 regularly.

Back when I was on a regular day schedule (0500-1630), I would often get calls and texts from [customers] at 0300-0800 because they were in one of those -Stan countries.

I was and still am happy to answer questions and solve problems immediately after being woken up by my phone. People rely on my expertise and it makes my work more fulfilling, even if it kinda sucks...
 
Text from employees for sick leave, vacation, schedule changes, general whining, ect.
 
Way back when I was a teaching assistant for undergrad organic chemistry classes, I would give out my home number to those in my sections. With the caveat that if they ever used it to ask a question after midnight, I'd make up a wrong answer so convincing that they would use it on the test. Never had a problem with late calls.
 
RussR said:
Good discussion, but to TRY to get back to my original questions (hah, fat chance! :D):

Assuming you have no issue with messaging your CFI at 9 PM:

Would you think it weird to message your tennis coach at 9 PM (I was thinking about buying this new racket)? Your piano teacher (I was working on Moonlight Sonata and had some questions)? Your yard service (I was thinking about switching fertilizers)? Or any other hourly-type, similar service provider?

If you are IN one of these type of professions, is it standard to get messages at unusual times? Is it considered rude, or a normal part of business?
Click to expand...
It probably has more to do with what level of relationship I had with those folks. I often text our vacation rental pool guy during non-business hours but that's because he texts me then too. These are not long running back and forth messages, just "hey can you..." type messages. Not sure I'd have an in depth "what racquet should I buy?" conversation by text.
 
24/7 for me is normal. Both as a CFII and in my day job. I have coworkers all over the world, so there really are no normal working hours or holidays or weekends anymore.
 
I mostly get E-mails at all hours from students or facility. The department chair prefers calling my cell.
 
All sorts of professions.....industrial or commercial sales, engineering, manufacturing, logistics, IT, ....
I'm an engineer and I've had a few jobs that involved elements of technical support and I was pretty much available 24/7/365

A lot depends on the company and the job....that encourage or facilitate the practice. I think it depends even more on the person though... both ends of it.

Personally, I value some separation and so I would only message by text or phone call a CFI late at night if for some reason had to last minute cancel a flight 1st thing in the AM for example....
email I view as more open.... you'll check that when you check it....
and on the receiving end..... there is such a thing as the power button.
In this day if I were still in such a job, I would either have a second phone number, or use something like google voice for a second phone number. And set it up to only ring through between certain hours....
 
RussR said:
Good discussion, but to TRY to get back to my original questions (hah, fat chance! :D):

Assuming you have no issue with messaging your CFI at 9 PM:

Would you think it weird to message your tennis coach at 9 PM (I was thinking about buying this new racket)? Your piano teacher (I was working on Moonlight Sonata and had some questions)? Your yard service (I was thinking about switching fertilizers)? Or any other hourly-type, similar service provider?

If you are IN one of these type of professions, is it standard to get messages at unusual times? Is it considered rude, or a normal part of business?
Click to expand...
No, I don't think it's weird. No, you don't have to answer. You can even put your phone on DND.
 
I don't think its CFI specific. Everyone texts at odd hours these days, students, employees, customers, family, friends, not friends.
 
eman1200 said:
there's a setting on my iphone to disable calls/txts at specified times, unless I get multiple calls/txts within a certain timeframe
Click to expand...

I have that on my phone, it's called DO NOT DISTURB. No one gets through unless they are on my contact list.
 
RussR said:
Good discussion, but to TRY to get back to my original questions (hah, fat chance! :D):

Assuming you have no issue with messaging your CFI at 9 PM:

Would you think it weird to message your tennis coach at 9 PM (I was thinking about buying this new racket)? Your piano teacher (I was working on Moonlight Sonata and had some questions)? Your yard service (I was thinking about switching fertilizers)? Or any other hourly-type, similar service provider?

If you are IN one of these type of professions, is it standard to get messages at unusual times? Is it considered rude, or a normal part of business?
Click to expand...

Different issues, flying is dependent on many factors to happen, especially for primary students. I would text my instructor late at night or early in the morning with questions relevant to whether a mission would happen or not. Questions concerning things comparable to "I was thinking about changing fertilizers" are things I would save for normal hours. I would think it weird to text those types of questions off hours to someone I have a professional relationship with.
 
My instructor would respond to texts I sent during the day at 11 pm when he got home and settled in for the night. Right about the time I fell asleep.
 
I send texts or emails whenever I have a thought to communicate. I don't expect a response outside the normal business hours for whomever I sent it to.

I receive texts or emails anytime. I respond when it works for me. Usually immediately, but if I have other things going on, then later.

Phone calls can be more intrusive, but I am capable of pushing the red button.
 
Mxfarm said:
If you love/like what you're doing, it doesn't matter, if you hate it, it doesn't matter what time it is, it's still bad.

Marc
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In my case it wasn’t so much what I was doing, but the *******s I was working with.
 
I just assume that CFIs that don't want to be bothered at all hours use the DND feature. Back before everyone had a smartphone, I used a pager as part of my work. When I didn't want to be bothered, I turned it off.
 
I'm a full time CFI at a small FBO & have students text me at all hours too. I encourage them to text when they have a question. I figure this might give me an competitive edge. Now that our weather is quite unpredictable it's nice to have a dialog about training options when we have an upcoming flight & the weather looks sketchy.

I also instructed full time in earlier decades beginning in the mid 70's. It was different back then. I rarely had a student call me at home.

My previous career was as a farm machinery salesman & farmers also texted me at odd times especially when they had a breakdown during harvest after business hours and couldn't raise anyone from the service department. So I guess I'm used to being available 24/7. Again, competitive advantage.

I don't see it as an issue although my wife rolls her eyes at times.
 
The only person who has to be OK with late-night messaging is yourself. My career was in academy, and my students contacted me at all times of the day and night. But I chose when they got answered. At some hour, unless someone is on fire or having an equivalent level emergency, I don't answer until the next business day when I am not otherwise committed to some other activity.
 
Rushie said:
We sure do when we’re making electricity for all you people.
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I will admit that’s one that I truly appreciate. At my previous house, we’d lose power at least twice a year for 1-3 days for reasons not necessarily the fault of the utility company.

Shortly before I put up a shed, we had a power outage, and since they had to access the transformer though our yard, I asked how much room they needed me to leave behind the shed. The response was, “That’s the nicest thing anybody’s ever said to me.” :D
 
I'm in IT, and currently I'm on call for emergencies 24/7, best effort, along with the rest of my team. That's not unusual for IT these days. But this can be two different things for IT people, emergencies or routine crap. I push back against routine crap off hours, 9-5. Routine should be email, not text.

I think you might be asking 2 different questions here. One is how available you should be, the other is should you be giving away free CFI time via text. 1 - If I were a consultant, I'd have 2 phones. Then you can leave the work phone behind when you're on vacation, or off at night, and friends and family can still reach you. Phones are small and cheap. 2 - I think a little free info isn't bad for business. But I'd push back on questions that they can just look up. If you have a pest, tell them you need to bill it, .1 hour minimum.

Oh final thought, if you have primary students out on solo flight I think it'd be good to be available via cell. :)
 
You can message me any time of day or night, unless I am on call, you are not going to get a reply until I had my morning coffee.
 
I’m in technology and security risk management… I keep an eye on company email/chat when I’m awake (say 6a-10p), 7 days a week. I answer based on urgency. We rarely use text/WhatsApp unless something really hits the fan. I can think of two incidents in 5 years. Most of what I do isn’t affected if I sit on it 12 hours. I’ve definitely had last minute calls with (insert city in Asia) late at night here with little notice or set an alarm for 2am the night before to go talk to Europe. La vie c’est la vie.
 
I did not have a cell phone when I was teaching. I guess it was miraculous my students made it through training since they could not communicate with me at all hours of the day.

no I don’t think I would be ok with what you all put up with regarding availability. If I’m contacting someone outside business hours it’s an email. Text messages are not the same as an email in my opinion.
 
I am an early bird, so usually in bed by 9:30pm and up at 430am. I have a rule...if you text me after I go to bed, I text you right when I wake up. When they tell me they don't like getting texts that early, I tell them I don't like them that late. Usually solves the problem.

But I do get a kick by messing with people at times. I have had many long interesting conversations with telemarketers from India. I usually go along with their schtick giving them fake information. After about 10 minutes, they figure it out and start calling me names in their native tongue. I figure if they are trying to ruin my life, I can make theirs a little frustrating LOL
 
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