What is Canadian "Controlled VFR"?

tawood

tawood

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Tim
I'm considering a VFR over flight of Canada next week, something I haven't done since 9/11. I'm brushing up on the procedure for the over flight, and I came across "CVFR", or "Controlled VFR", yet I can't seem to find a clear definition...is it just flight through Class B, Class B through D, or does it even include VFR flight following?
 
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Seems to me I remember reading once that it was mandatory for VFR flight at night up there.
 
luvflyin said:
Seems to me I remember reading once that it was mandatory for VFR flight at night up there.
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You remember wrong. The airspace rules do not change between night and day. The pilot qualifications do.
 
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The confusion about CVFR is most commonly around the airspace in the west. The IFR MEA is quite high over the Rockies. If you are above 12,500 but below the IFR MEA you will not get CVFR clearance.

A couple of other things to note:
- If you ask and receive CVFR you'll almost certainly be assigned an IFR altitude even though you are still VFR.
- If you are westbound VFR over the Rockies and at a high altitude (example 14,500 ASL) you will be too low for CVFR as you are below the MEA. If you stay at that altitude as you go west you will have to secure CVFR as the MEAs drop as the peak terrain drops. It's easy to bust airspace staying in level flight in that situation if you are not paying attention.
 
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GRG55 said:
You remember wrong. The airspace rules do not change between night and day. The pilot qualifications do.
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That must of been it. So IFR rated is required for flying at night?? Or is there some 'in between' night rating?
 
luvflyin said:
That must of been it. So IFR rated is required for flying at night?? Or is there some 'in between' night rating?
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Canada has a night rating as an add on to a PPL. In airplanes, it requires a minimum of 5 hours night dual, 5 hours night solo, and 10 hours instrument dual, including a cross country and multiple night landing requirement.
 
Ah Ha. I was scratching my head reading all this stuff about CVFR and the definition of it being in Class B airspace. All controlled airspace up there is Class B from 12500 or the MEA, whichever is higher, up to 18000. Not just upside down wedding cakes around busy airports.
 
luvflyin said:
Ah Ha. I was scratching my head reading all this stuff about CVFR and the definition of it being in Class B airspace. All controlled airspace up there is Class B from 12500 or the MEA, whichever is higher, up to 18000. Not just upside down wedding cakes around busy airports.
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And the big airports are class C, which in Canada require clearance to enter. So... a lot like class B in the USA.

midlifeflyer said:
Canada has a night rating as an add on to a PPL. In airplanes, it requires a minimum of 5 hours night dual, 5 hours night solo, and 10 hours instrument dual, including a cross country and multiple night landing requirement.
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Do you know if night VFR is allowed in Canada if you are instrument rated or only if you have the night VFR qualifications? Does night IFR also require the night rating?
 
iamtheari said:
Do you know if night VFR is allowed in Canada if you are instrument rated or only if you have the night VFR qualifications? Does night IFR also require the night rating?
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Are you asking about this as an FAA certified pilot in an N registered airplane or are you asking about this as if you are a Canadian pilot in a C registered airplane? I can't quite tell. I've always assumed that the US pilots who are visiting are qualified to fly at night due to our night flight training but I've never confirmed that.

Regardless of the answer, one thing I can tell you is that there is a lot of unpopulated area up there, thus no lights. I could see it being quite disorienting if you weren't expecting it. I suspect that is at least partially why the CAA requires the additional training.
 
iamtheari said:
And the big airports are class C, which in Canada require clearance to enter. So... a lot like class B in the USA.


Do you know if night VFR is allowed in Canada if you are instrument rated or only if you have the night VFR qualifications? Does night IFR also require the night rating?
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Well I'm certain you can fly at night in Canada as a US FAA IR pilot.
Either that, or I've been incorrectly dispatched for the past 20 years.
 
iamtheari said:
Do you know if night VFR is allowed in Canada if you are instrument rated or only if you have the night VFR qualifications? Does night IFR also require the night rating?
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I don’t know. Looking briefly at the reg, my guess is that they are separate ratings, but it is just a guess. Hopefully someone with more familiarity with Canada's rules will be able to answer your question.

(I am assuming we are talking about the privilege and limitations of a Canadian pilot license, not someone flying a N-numbered aircraft with their US certificate.)
 
iamtheari said:
...Do you know if night VFR is allowed in Canada if you are instrument rated or only if you have the night VFR qualifications? Does night IFR also require the night rating?
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If you are instrument rated you can fly VFR at night. There is no such thing as a night IFR ticket.

If you hold a VFR only Canadian PPL you need the night rating to fly VFR when the sun goes down. The night VFR is a lot of instrument training. Many VFR PPL holders will do the VFR night rating as a step on the way to IFR.
 
GRG55 said:
If you are instrument rated you can fly VFR at night. There is no such thing as a night IFR ticket.

If you hold a VFR only Canadian PPL you need the night rating to fly VFR when the sun goes down. The night VFR is a lot of instrument training. Many VFR PPL holders will do the VFR night rating as a step on the way to IFR.
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Thank you.
 
midlifeflyer said:
(I am assuming we are talking about the privilege and limitations of a Canadian pilot license, not someone flying a N-numbered aircraft with their US certificate.)
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It's good information either way, but in this case I'm a US pilot with an N-plane. When I read the Transport Canada AIM and some other documents to learn about the rules and airspace in the Great White North, I did not see an exemption to the night VFR restrictions for US pilots. But that only means I did not see one, not that there isn't one.
 
iamtheari said:
It's good information either way, but in this case I'm a US pilot with an N-plane. When I read the Transport Canada AIM and some other documents to learn about the rules and airspace in the Great White North, I did not see an exemption to the night VFR restrictions for US pilots. But that only means I did not see one, not that there isn't one.
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I've never had the need to look at it that deeply, but I'll do my best.

Think in terms of there being two types of aviation regulations. In the GA world, think of them in terms of (1) rules which apply to the privileges and limitations of pilots and (2) "rules of the road."

There are ICAO member state agreements. One is the Chicago Convention on international aviation, which provides, among other things, that the "rules of the road" of the country you are in - airspace requirements, speed limits, for example, apply. On the other hand, "certificates of competency and iicenses issued or rendered valid by the contracting State in which the aircraft is registered, shall be recognized as valid by the other contracting States," so long as ICAO minimum standards are met.

Basically, that means, a US-certificated pilot flying a US-registered aircraft in foreign airspace has all of the privileges and limitations of his or her US pilot certificate. It also explains why a foreign country is free to not recognize US sport pilots or pilots operating under BasicMed - the standards for those don't meet ICAO minimum standards.
 
iamtheari said:
And the big airports are class C, which in Canada require clearance to enter. So... a lot like class B in the USA.


Do you know if night VFR is allowed in Canada if you are instrument rated or only if you have the night VFR qualifications? Does night IFR also require the night rating?
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Oddly, YVR is Class B, while YYZ is Class C. I do believe flight through the Toronto Class C TMA is similar to the rules of US Class Cs, though I have no idea what flying around YVR is like. Flight Following is about as freely given in Canada as in the US.
 
N1120A said:
Oddly, YVR is Class B, while YYZ is Class C. I do believe flight through the Toronto Class C TMA is similar to the rules of US Class Cs, though I have no idea what flying around YVR is like. Flight Following is about as freely given in Canada as in the US.
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Looking at the chart, the ring around CYVR is made up of ] symbols and says CZ "C" 2500 (2500). The next ring out says CZ "D" 800 (800) CZ "C" ABV 800 (800) TO 2500 (2500). Where are you getting that it's Class B? I want to understand all of this before I do something crazy like fly North. :)
 
iamtheari said:
Looking at the chart, the ring around CYVR is made up of ] symbols and says CZ "C" 2500 (2500). The next ring out says CZ "D" 800 (800) CZ "C" ABV 800 (800) TO 2500 (2500). Where are you getting that it's Class B? I want to understand all of this before I do something crazy like fly North. :)
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I read it on a chart somewhere, but it seems to be C now.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I've never had the need to look at it that deeply, but I'll do my best.

Think in terms of there being two types of aviation regulations. In the GA world, think of them in terms of (1) rules which apply to the privileges and limitations of pilots and (2) "rules of the road."

There are ICAO member state agreements. One is the Chicago Convention on international aviation, which provides, among other things, that the "rules of the road" of the country you are in - airspace requirements, speed limits, for example, apply. On the other hand, "certificates of competency and iicenses issued or rendered valid by the contracting State in which the aircraft is registered, shall be recognized as valid by the other contracting States," so long as ICAO minimum standards are met.

Basically, that means, a US-certificated pilot flying a US-registered aircraft in foreign airspace has all of the privileges and limitations of his or her US pilot certificate. It also explains why a foreign country is free to not recognize US sport pilots or pilots operating under BasicMed - the standards for those don't meet ICAO minimum standards.
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So just to be clear, since I'm going to Canada next month, my FAA issued PPL (without IR) will allow me to fly my N-number plane at night in Canada?
 
ripnet said:
So just to be clear, since I'm going to Canada next month, my FAA issued PPL (without IR) will allow me to fly my N-number plane at night in Canada?
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Only if the conditions are VFR. ;)
 
GRG55 said:
Only if the conditions are VFR. ;)
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This is actually solid advice... VFR in Canada has some restrictions that it doesn't in the USA. For example, I think you can't fly VFR over the top of a layer. You do have to file and activate a VFR flight plan for any cross-country flight over 25 nm. (But you get automatic VFR flight plan opening and closing if you're at a towered airport.) And I think you are supposed to use 126.7 for middle-of-nowhere position reporting to other VFR traffic.
 
iamtheari said:
This is actually solid advice... VFR in Canada has some restrictions that it doesn't in the USA. For example, I think you can't fly VFR over the top of a layer. You do have to file and activate a VFR flight plan for any cross-country flight over 25 nm. (But you get automatic VFR flight plan opening and closing if you're at a towered airport.) And I think you are supposed to use 126.7 for middle-of-nowhere position reporting to other VFR traffic.
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You are correct that 126.7 is the VFR frequency for uncontrolled airspace in Canada.
A flight plan (and eAPIS) is required to cross the border for arrival into Canada.

Once in Canada there is not a absolute requirement for filing a flight plan, but it is very common to do so. The alternative is called a "flight note", and that is simply letting a "responsible party" know your plans and contacting them when you arrive destination. That party is responsible for initiating SAR if you go missing. That party can be your spouse, significant other, friend, parent, the dog catcher, whatever. Using the BIL as a responsible party is generally frowned upon. ;)

Keep in mind that something like 80% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the USA border. You don't have to go very far north and it starts to get pretty sparsely populated and remote.

For Canadian pilots VFR "on top" is a separate endorsement on their PPL, as is night VFR. But a USA PPL flying an N numbered airplane can exercise the same privileges as if they were in the USA as far as I know.
 
GRG55 said:
For Canadian pilots VFR "on top" is a separate endorsement on their PPL, as is night VFR. But a USA PPL flying an N numbered airplane can exercise the same privileges as if they were in the USA as far as I know.
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I didn't know about the endorsement. They sure like to endorse things up there.
 
iamtheari said:
I didn't know about the endorsement. They sure like to endorse things up there.
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The USA is the "land of the free", Canada is the "land of the fee".
 
GRG55 said:
The USA is the "land of the free", Canada is the "land of the fee".
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Considering what it costs to land at airports that used to be free, I think the U.S. is catching up to Canada in that regard.
 
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