What if the pilot goes unconscious? my wife took a pinch hitter course...

FlyingMonkey

FlyingMonkey

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Aug 31, 2014
Messages
408
Display Name
Display name:
FlyingMonkey
My wife has been terrified to fly in small planes for a long time, and it's taken years for her to be able to be comfortable flying in our plane. Still in the back of her mind, she wonders "what if something happened to Eric?!" so we set out to prepare her in case I become incapacitated. We teamed up with Jason Miller of The Finer Points, who designed and taught her a "pinch hitter" course so she can control the airplane, navigate to a runway, and land safely to keep herself and our daughters alive.
The experience was transformative. I hope you enjoy this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRAHHR01o_A
 
Also of note the group, The 99s, also offers a course though it is a ground school with some airplane familiarization.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
Definitely hoping for that to happen! :)
Click to expand...
But then you'll need to buy yourself a taildragger so you have something to fly when she and the kids are gallivanting about the skies without you. It's a vicious cycle!

Things I didn't like about this video: YouTube interrupted some of the best parts trying to sell me a cost-free air conditioner for my house that a high school teacher recently invented. (But that's probably on me. They haven't found anything else I'll buy yet, so why not swing for the fence?)

Things I did like about this video: The rest of it. Cool trick with the 360-degree camera mounted outside the windshield. Great choice getting the best aviation YouTuber to fly with you. You also seem to have done a great job holding your tongue throughout the flight, too. I can't do that sitting in the back of any plane, much less my own. If it helps, you can tell her that I've flown worse approaches than any in your video and didn't die, not even a little.
 
iamtheari said:
Things I didn't like about this video: YouTube interrupted some of the best parts trying to sell me a cost-free air conditioner for my house that a high school teacher recently invented. (But that's probably on me. They haven't found anything else I'll buy yet, so why not swing for the fence?)
Click to expand...

I'd like to think 31 isn't old, but I remember when Youtube was great...before ads. Has anyone ever bought anything they try to sell? Different argument for a different topic on the effectiveness of advertising.

Like always, love the video. Glad to see you kept all the garments inside this time.
 
iamtheari said:
But then you'll need to buy yourself a taildragger so you have something to fly when she and the kids are gallivanting about the skies without you. It's a vicious cycle!

Things I didn't like about this video: YouTube interrupted some of the best parts trying to sell me a cost-free air conditioner for my house that a high school teacher recently invented. (But that's probably on me. They haven't found anything else I'll buy yet, so why not swing for the fence?)

Things I did like about this video: The rest of it. Cool trick with the 360-degree camera mounted outside the windshield. Great choice getting the best aviation YouTuber to fly with you. You also seem to have done a great job holding your tongue throughout the flight, too. I can't do that sitting in the back of any plane, much less my own. If it helps, you can tell her that I've flown worse approaches than any in your video and didn't die, not even a little.
Click to expand...

It was really hard not to say much back there, especially during the moments where she was expressing emotion. I wanted to join in the celebration of each accomplishment but really set out for this to be HER story entirely. I knew from the conception of the project that I wanted the whole piece to be in her voice and all about her experience, so I did my best to take myself out of it completely.
 
Racerx said:
I'd like to think 31 isn't old, but I remember when Youtube was great...before ads. Has anyone ever bought anything they try to sell? Different argument for a different topic on the effectiveness of advertising.

Like always, love the video. Glad to see you kept all the garments inside this time.
Click to expand...
I keep track of ads that interrupt videos, and then never buy the products for the interruption.
2C0F221E-38FB-4A5E-AC78-E73FFE6B6F73.jpeg
 
Country Flier said:
I keep track of ads that interrupt videos, and then never buy the products for the interruption.
View attachment 96809
Click to expand...
I try to select the best spots for the ads but the controls on YT aren’t super accurate. Couldn’t make the videos without the ad revenue etc. I shoot terabytes for each project. In a perfect world I would move everything off youtube to a pay sub model of my own site or something like Patreon but right now that would be a narrow audience. I guess you can either pay for youtube premium or deal with ads every now and then. As a filmmaker I hate the idea of ads interrupting my story as much as you do.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
As a filmmaker I hate the idea of ads interrupting my story as much as you do.
Click to expand...
As the video creator you can simply decide not to put ads in the video midstream. Just select beginning skip-able and/or ending and then no story interruption and no loooonnngg ads forced on people.

YouTube sent me an email several months ago saying they changed their default ad placement to mid-stream and they were changing all existing videos. I hate the mid-stream interruptions so much (for myself and my viewers) I spent a couple hours going back to every video I created to turn that off.

By all means you should follow whatever YouTube business model that makes you happy...you just made it sound like you didn’t want the interruptions.

Another nice video!
 
YouTube premium is pretty cheap and you never see an ad!

I’ll watch your video today. It’s a topic I have some concerns about having recently moved from a plane with CAPS which would give my wife an easy safety net in case I am incapacitated to one that does not. I would like her to take some training - not sure how realistic that is with a jet though.
 
My wife also wants to do a pinch hitter. She reached out to a cfi friend a few weeks ago but just hasn’t had good luck with time and weather to go fly.
 
When I was flying air ambulance, just about every EMT and nurse at some time would ask to be taught how to land the plane. I would tell them I can teach you to fly the plane in just a few hours. As for landing, it takes a LOT of practice, something we as pilots do almost every day. We make it look so easy because we have all logged thousands of landings over years of time.

So with all the medical folks and equipment on board, it would be easier to bring the pilot back to life.

I would demonstrate the A/P on how to keep the plane straight and level and hold altitude.
 
Wife & I watched this last night. She has similar feelings to Mrs. SCFM regarding nervousness. She told me last night she's terrified to touch the yoke when we fly thinking she'll crash the plane if she does. I tell her the plane wants to fly and you have to actually give some effort to make it do something dangerous, but I guess I need to show her by making her fly it for a while.

I'm anxious to see how Jason tackles getting her to land, as we all know that's the hard part. After 300 hours I still don't feel like I've mastered it.

Another thing we discussed last night is how likely is it that I would be incapacitated somehow and she wouldn't? That guy in the King Air is the only one I can think of hearing about. All the other crashes I've seen caused by pilot incapacitation have been hypoxia. If I'm losing consciousness due to hypoxia and she isn't, it seems learning how to deal with the medical issue would be far better & far easier.

If I was over 70 I'd probably worry more about it. Seems like as long as I'm qualifying for a 3rd class medical the risk is pretty low. Anybody ever see any data on this?
 
Racerx said:
I'd like to think 31 isn't old, but I remember when Youtube was great...before ads. Has anyone ever bought anything they try to sell? Different argument for a different topic on the effectiveness of advertising....
Click to expand...
31 isn't old.

I'm not sure whether it's worth the price, but I'm trying out the ad-free version of YouTube.
 
pinch hitter courses are the equivalent of signing your wife up for a few self defense classes and thinking she could actually defend herself against a 200+# attacker. I mean if it gives her a warm fuzzy feeling, great, but let's be real. it'll buy you a very, very small chance of a successful outcome. a subset of pilots fly regularly and can't figure out how to land well (just ask steingar ;) ). in reality, it's getting her to 1) be able to use the radio, and 2) feeling a little more comfortable handling the airplane, 'maybe' keeping the wings level for a little while. but simply going thru a pinch hitter course and not getting your PPL...and then NOT PRACTICING REGULARLY...might get you an extra 1 or 2% chance of success. which is better than not having that extra chance, but c'mon now.....

.....eman heads for cover......
 
Jim K said:
...I'm anxious to see how Jason tackles getting her to land, as we all know that's the hard part. After 300 hours I still don't feel like I've mastered it....
Click to expand...
I think the best signature line I've ever seen is this:

There are three simple rules for a smooth landing. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.​
 
eman1200 said:
pinch hitter courses are the equivalent of signing your wife up for a few self defense classes and thinking she could actually defend herself against a 200+# attacker. I mean if it gives her a warm fuzzy feeling, great, but let's be real. it'll buy you a very, very small chance of a successful outcome. a subset of pilots fly regularly and can't figure out how to land well (just ask steingar ;) ). in reality, it's getting her to 1) be able to use the radio, and 2) feeling a little more comfortable handling the airplane, 'maybe' keeping the wings level for a little while. but simply going thru a pinch hitter course and not getting your PPL...and then NOT PRACTICING REGULARLY...might get you an extra 1 or 2% chance of success. which is better than not having that extra chance, but c'mon now.....

.....eman heads for cover......
Click to expand...

if incapacitation were to happen in VMC I strongly disagree with you. My wife can recover from an unusual attitude, follow headings, climb or descend, descend at 85-90 knots reliably, and now land the plane on a runway in a manner that is at the least survivable and at best a decent landing. Maybe part 2 will convince you. I do think she should regularly practice everything on her own up to the flare. I’m not a CFI and won’t have her on controls alone for the actual landing. This wasn’t just me having her control the airplane for a little while...
 
FlyingMonkey said:
if incapacitation were to happen in VMC I strongly disagree with you. My wife can recover from an unusual attitude, follow headings, climb or descend, descend at 85-90 knots reliably, and now land the plane on a runway in a manner that is at the least survivable and at best a decent landing. Maybe part 2 will convince you. I do think she should regularly practice everything on her own up to the flare. I’m not a CFI and won’t have her on controls alone for the actual landing. This wasn’t just me having her control the airplane for a little while...
Click to expand...

the key is ongoing practice, otherwise it's an almost immediately perishable skill (no pun intended)
 
Great job to Poppins on her impressive skills in such a short time and confronting her fears and anxiety during this.
 
eman1200 said:
might get you an extra 1 or 2% chance of success. which is better than not having that extra chance, but c'mon now.....

.....eman heads for cover......
Click to expand...

You might have said this for effect ... but I'm not flaming you; while I disagree with your conclusion.

I watched two of the videos and thought it looked like it helped "Poppins" to get comfortable enough to get the airplane to the airport at the right speed. The change in behavior from the first approach to the last approach looked a lot better and I'm sure that SCFM will encourage her to take the controls frequently when they fly together so she'll keep getting practice and comfort.
 
In the first video, I liked the use of a plastic film over the windshield to draw the horizon line on. I think that is very helpful to facilitate understanding the attitude and power change configurations, providing it is VMC. It is easily transferable to the panel attitude indicator even though I hope visibility is good enough in the real emergency to just use the horizon.
Where can I get that plastic film?

One of the more important aids would be to teach how to engage the autopilot in heading mode. I wonder if he teaches that on the second video.
 
Last edited:
I really like that she's having the courage to do it. It will surely help with the fear of flying at the very least....and likely other positives.
Hopefully she'll get some minor turbulence exposure later as PIC too. From the videos, that seems to make her the most uptight.
Well done as always on the video.
Good luck Poppins!
 
If the pilot is incapacitated and I can choose between a rusty student pilot who doesn’t quite remember how to land and a frozen ball of panic, I’ll take the former. This isn’t about making a good landing. This is about having at worst a low-energy crash at an airport with the trucks rolling.
 
Zeldman said:
When I was flying air ambulance, just about every EMT and nurse at some time would ask to be taught how to land the plane. I would tell them I can teach you to fly the plane in just a few hours. As for landing, it takes a LOT of practice, something we as pilots do almost every day. We make it look so easy because we have all logged thousands of landings over years of time.

So with all the medical folks and equipment on board, it would be easier to bring the pilot back to life.

I would demonstrate the A/P on how to keep the plane straight and level and hold altitude.
Click to expand...

Been a few incapacitated pilot incidents in air ambulance in recent years. We just started an annual training program in HEMS. I always preface the class to the medcrew with “odds of you all pulling this off without crashing is slim.” They’d be better off with just kicking me out the door and occupying the pilot’s seat themselves. :)
 
Bender Aviation said:
Great job to Poppins on her impressive skills in such a short time and confronting her fears and anxiety during this.
Click to expand...
I'll relay this to her. Thank you!
Justin M said:
I watched two of the videos and thought it looked like it helped "Poppins" to get comfortable enough to get the airplane to the airport at the right speed. The change in behavior from the first approach to the last approach looked a lot better and I'm sure that SCFM will encourage her to take the controls frequently when they fly together so she'll keep getting practice and comfort.
Click to expand...
For sure we have talked about her flying legs and doing descents in the future. Hopefully flying tomorrow so we'll see...

MajorTurbulence said:
Where can I get that plastic film?

One of the more important aids would be to teach how to engage the autopilot in heading mode. I wonder if he teaches that on the second video.
Click to expand...
It's just dry erase on the windscreen. You have to wipe it off within 30 minutes or it may leave a mark...
We talked about using heading or track mode on the autopilot. My wife learns much better by feel and will have a hard time remember a technical button push sequence on the Trutrak so we have settled on use of the blue button to recover an upset and fly straight and level on a track. Beyond that she knows she can disco the A/P, steer the plane point it and press the blue button again to resume the autopilot holding a track. Going to keep it as simple as possible for her. We will probably cover that in Part 2, which we have shot but just am working on editing it now...

Skyrys62 said:
I really like that she's having the courage to do it. It will surely help with the fear of flying at the very least....and likely other positives.
Hopefully she'll get some minor turbulence exposure later as PIC too. From the videos, that seems to make her the most uptight.
Well done as always on the video.
Good luck Poppins!
Click to expand...
On part 2 we had some good experience with her flying in turbulence and she is much more comfortable. It has been really cool to watch! Thanks for the well wished for her. will pass along!

iamtheari said:
If the pilot is incapacitated and I can choose between a rusty student pilot who doesn’t quite remember how to land and a frozen ball of panic, I’ll take the former. This isn’t about making a good landing. This is about having at worst a low-energy crash at an airport with the trucks rolling.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Jason was having her flying a little faster than normal approach speeds to prevent stall/spin. She knows the AOA beeping sounds and what to do also. Only using one or two notches of flaps unless she is really high and needs to get down... trying to keep the speed reasonable but not so slow to try to a greaser since that could have bad consequences for stal/spin close to the ground. It is a different set of considerations with the outcome goal being a little different than training a private pilot. It was an interesting process to watch.
 
eman1200 said:
the key is ongoing practice, otherwise it's an almost immediately perishable skill (no pun intended)
Click to expand...
I don't find landing to be the perishable skill (at least for a certificated pilot....maybe different for a pinch hitter). I went 15 months between landings and the landing part did not feel rusty. It was the radio and flows that felt rusty.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I don't find landing to be the perishable skill (at least for a certificated pilot....maybe different for a pinch hitter). I went 15 months between landings and the landing part did not feel rusty. It was the radio and flows that felt rusty.
Click to expand...

we're talking about pinch hitters, right? people who take what, 5-15ish hours or so? maybe less? how 'bout this........find a friend who's freakishly afraid of flying. buy them 8 hours of instruction. then wait 6 months and have them land your plane for you. sound like a great idea? again, I'm not opposed to it, go for it! I'd much rather someone have that experience than not have it. some may even enjoy it and get hooked. some may fly a leg now and then. I'd bet a hundid dollars 99% of them don't ever land the plane again.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
I don't find landing to be the perishable skill (at least for a certificated pilot....maybe different for a pinch hitter). I went 15 months between landings and the landing part did not feel rusty. It was the radio and flows that felt rusty.
Click to expand...

Interesting, all the backcountry pilots I know would disagree. Even guys that compete very successfully in STOL competitions. Doing a nice greaser wheel landing stopping in under 700' in my 180 is not something you do without practice.

My girlfriend asked once if I thought she could land my plane, a simple NO was all I had for her.
 
I had my wife watch it last night. She, like Poppins had to get over her deathly fear of flying to go fly with me.
When we first met, she wouldn’t fly commercial. Now she travels the world for her job and has got comfortable with the big iron.

My wife both cried and smiled watching your video. She felt the same feelings as Poppins as she told her story. That goes to show you what a great storyteller you are. You do create some of the best aviation content online. The ending had her upset all night though, when she talked about having to live life without you if something happened. It brought to the forefront that what we do does have inherent risks. I explained that we lost a neighbor last month because he slipped off his boat dock, hit his head and drowned. Told her that didn’t stop us from having a house at the lake or enjoying our boat....

I also had a very visceral reaction watching it the first time as I recognized all of the similar feelings.
I love flying and I want to share the experience with her. She loves me and wants to go places and experience it also. It’s a huge battle sometimes to get her to go on trips.

we have talked about doing the pinch hitter course and this will make that come to fruition. My wife is a huge control freak, and her ability to learn to control the plane will take some of her fear away.

My wife also asked if y’all were going to be at OSH, because she said she would love to sit down and have a conversation with her about this. Kind of like peer counseling.

My wife is a very successful pharma executive. Gets paid big bucks and is a leader in her field. Her fear of flying really bugs her as she has faced so many fears in her career and overcame them to get where she is at today.

Again, great content. Keep up the great work. And I’ve noticed a small curve to your cap bill
 
When I analyzed what should be accomplished in the pinch hitter, the main goal was to keep things as simple as possible, i.e. avoid using flaps to keep configuration changes to a minimum knowing that in an Archer like mine, the airplane will land “no flaps” with enough stall margin at 70 knot final, but not float excessively. Also, as you have stated, the goal is not the good landing, but the controlled low speed crash that will easily be survivable.
 
eman1200 said:
pinch hitter courses are the equivalent of signing your wife up for a few self defense classes and thinking she could actually defend herself against a 200+# attacker. I mean if it gives her a warm fuzzy feeling, great, but let's be real. it'll buy you a very, very small chance of a successful outcome. a subset of pilots fly regularly and can't figure out how to land well (just ask steingar ;) ). in reality, it's getting her to 1) be able to use the radio, and 2) feeling a little more comfortable handling the airplane, 'maybe' keeping the wings level for a little while. but simply going thru a pinch hitter course and not getting your PPL...and then NOT PRACTICING REGULARLY...might get you an extra 1 or 2% chance of success. which is better than not having that extra chance, but c'mon now.....

.....eman heads for cover......
Click to expand...

I don't think this is the point of the courses, nor is it to achieve or maintain any sort of proficiency. It's teaching them how to call for help on 121.5 so they're not alone and can be radio-guided to either a decent landing or a survivable crash.

Think some dude off the street knows how to operate our Steampunk Fetish radio stacks and get a human on the other end to help?
 
schmookeeg said:
I don't think this is the point of the courses, nor is it to achieve or maintain any sort of proficiency. It's teaching them how to call for help on 121.5 so they're not alone and can be radio-guided to either a decent landing or a survivable crash.
Click to expand...
Depends on who is teaching it. AOPA's Pinch Hitter (who has trademark on the term with regard to flight instruction) is way more than just yelling for help on 121.5. So are most of the other ones I've seen.
 
Jason understands the psychology of flight instruction, I flew with him in a Cirrus out of San Carlos years ago, he was the same. I love how he sent a copy of Stick and Rudder, best thing I ever gave my wife. It'd be hard to argue with the fact that Poppins has a much better chance of getting her family on the ground safely (even if the plane wasn't flyable again) than if she never took this course with Jason. The idea of having her perform a takeoff, to change the scene and build confidence, was really smart. The only thing I would add is she might want to be sure that the kids are belted in before the landing. Can't wait until episode two is posted.
 
schmookeeg said:
I don't think this is the point of the courses, nor is it to achieve or maintain any sort of proficiency. It's teaching them how to call for help on 121.5 so they're not alone and can be radio-guided to either a decent landing or a survivable crash.
Click to expand...

exactly my point. good luck having a safe landing because you know how to use the radio. it's a false sense of security unless you maintain any amount of proficiency. just look at the threads where someone hasn't done an approach for a couple of months........it's pages upon pages of "you need to be proficient, not current!" but ok, 6 hours of instruction 3 years ago will help someone land a plane? roooiiiggghhhtttt.

schmookeeg said:
Think some dude off the street knows how to operate our Steampunk Fetish radio stacks and get a human on the other end to help?
Click to expand...

I dunno, ask skyking.........
 
flyingron said:
Depends on who is teaching it. AOPA's Pinch Hitter (who has trademark on the term with regard to flight instruction) is way more than just yelling for help on 121.5. So are most of the other ones I've seen.
Click to expand...

Sorry, yeah, I get that they teach it, and eman is addressing the efficacy of those teachings. I share his view.

I think the practical value of the course is how to call for help, and possibly how to keep straightish and levelish while you maneuver a 200# potato around.
 
I agree with eman. It might make her feel better, which is better than a full-on panic, but without regular practice it won't be that helpful. Plus, we travel in IMC. So, she's supposed to shoot an approach too?

The real answer for my wife is, "Oh chute!"



Wayne
 
In theory she'll be talking to air traffic control and using the autopilot's heading and altitude modes it may be able to send her to somewhere that is VFR..

I think the goal is getting her to survive the ordeal..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top