How stranded Southwest Passengers are getting home:
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/str...xhaustive-efforts-home-amid/story?id=95848764
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/str...xhaustive-efforts-home-amid/story?id=95848764
What happened to Southwest?
- Thread starter mcdewey
- Start date
Shawn
En-Route
This is their employees imploding them from the inside.
Weather was the start, DEN ramp call outs and a few other localized call outs coupled with their antiquated system and inability to quickly recover due to Union and FAA rules and it all created the perfect storm of the meltdown.
In the early days of the cancellations the FA Union President was practically reveling in the demise of SW in live news interviews for her 15 min of fame, it was sad how bad she was bashing them. Way to represent.
Of course SW can't publicly call out their Union bosses or the FAA rules as contributing factors and have to take it lying down but it is much deeper than just a "repositioning technology failure"
My SW flight tomorrow was canceled and now need to road trip 6 hours each way instead but I honestly more feel bad for them that I am ticked my flight is cancelled.
Weather was the start, DEN ramp call outs and a few other localized call outs coupled with their antiquated system and inability to quickly recover due to Union and FAA rules and it all created the perfect storm of the meltdown.
In the early days of the cancellations the FA Union President was practically reveling in the demise of SW in live news interviews for her 15 min of fame, it was sad how bad she was bashing them. Way to represent.
Of course SW can't publicly call out their Union bosses or the FAA rules as contributing factors and have to take it lying down but it is much deeper than just a "repositioning technology failure"
My SW flight tomorrow was canceled and now need to road trip 6 hours each way instead but I honestly more feel bad for them that I am ticked my flight is cancelled.
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ebetancourt
Line Up and Wait
Braniff was mentioned in earlier posts. That was the management team that decided to paint obsolete aircraft with fancy designs and save the capital required to buy fuel efficient aircraft - just before the oil embargos wasn't it?
falconkidding
Line Up and Wait
What union or FAA rules hurt the recovery. 14-16 hour duty days and 10 hours off isn't exactly hard to work around.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Personally, I would not even consider going by air on a trip that is only 6 hours driving each way.
Then again, here in NM there is probably just a little less traffic to deal with...
AggieMike88
Touchdown! Greaser!
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
This was posted on FB by a local SWA pilot.
the article is from someone in the Southwest Airlines Pilot Association
Voices From The Line: Larry Lonero
What happened to Southwest Airlines?
I’ve been a pilot for Southwest Airlines for over 35 years. I’ve given my heart and soul to Southwest Airlines during those years. And quite honestly Southwest Airlines has given its heart and soul to me and my family.
Many of you have asked what caused this epic meltdown. Unfortunately, the frontline employees have been watching this meltdown coming like a slow motion train wreck for sometime. And we’ve been begging our leadership to make much needed changes in order to avoid it. What happened yesterday started two decades ago.
Herb Kelleher was the brilliant CEO of SWA until 2004. He was a very operationally oriented leader. Herb spent lots of time on the front line. He always had his pulse on the day to day operation and the people who ran it. That philosophy flowed down through the ranks of leadership to the front line managers. We were a tight operation from top to bottom. We had tools, leadership and employee buy in. Everything that was needed to run a first class operation. When Herb retired in 2004 Gary Kelly became the new CEO.
Gary was an accountant by education and his style leading Southwest Airlines became more focused on finances and less on operations. He did not spend much time on the front lines. He didn’t engage front line employees much. When the CEO doesn’t get out in the trenches the neither do the lower levels of leadership.
Gary named another accountant to be Chief Operating Officer (the person responsible for day to day operations). The new COO had little or no operational background. This trickled down through the lower levels of leadership, as well.
They all disengaged the operation, disengaged the employees and focused more on Return on Investment, stock buybacks and Wall Street. This approach worked for Gary’s first 8 years because we were still riding the strong wave that Herb had built.
But as time went on the operation began to deteriorate. There was little investment in upgrading technology (after all, how do you measure the return on investing in infrastructure?) or the tools we needed to operate efficiently and consistently. As the frontline employees began to see the deterioration in our operation we began to warn our leadership. We educated them, we informed them and we made suggestions to them. But to no avail. The focus was on finances not operations. As we saw more and more deterioration in our operation our asks turned to pleas. Our pleas turned to dire warnings. But they went unheeded. After all, the stock price was up so what could be wrong?
We were a motivated, willing and proud employee group wanting to serve our customers and uphold the tradition of our beloved airline, the airline we built and the airline that the traveling public grew to cheer for and luv. But we were watching in frustration and disbelief as our once amazing airline was becoming a house of cards.
A half dozen small scale meltdowns occurred during the mid to late 2010’s. With each mini meltdown Leadership continued to ignore the pleas and warnings of the employees in the trenches. We were still operating with 1990’s technology. We didn’t have the tools we needed on the line to operate the sophisticated and large airline we had become. We could see that the wheels were about ready to fall off the bus. But no one in leadership would heed our pleas.
When COVID happened SWA scaled back considerably (as did all of the airlines) for about two years. This helped conceal the serious problems in technology, infrastructure and staffing that were occurring and being ignored. But as we ramped back up the lack of attention to the operation was waiting to show its ugly head.
Gary Kelly retired as CEO in early 2022. Bob Jordan was named CEO. He was a more operationally oriented leader. He replaced our Chief Operating Officer with a very smart man and they announced their priority would be to upgrade our airline’s technology and provide the frontline employees the operational tools we needed to care for our customers and employees. Finally, someone acknowledged the elephant in the room.
But two decades of neglect takes several years to overcome. And, unfortunately to our horror, our house of cards came tumbling down this week as a routine winter storm broke our 1990’s operating system.
The frontline employees were ready and on station. We were properly staffed. We were at the airports. Hell, we were ON the airplanes. But our antiquated software systems failed coupled with a decades old system of having to manage 20,000 frontline employees by phone calls. No automation had been developed to run this sophisticated machine.
We had a routine winter storm across the Midwest last Thursday. A larger than normal number flights were cancelled as a result. But what should have been one minor inconvenient day of travel turned into this nightmare. After all, American, United, Delta and the other airlines operated with only minor flight disruptions.
The two decades of neglect by SWA leadership caused the airline to lose track of all its crews. ALL of us. We were there. With our customers. At the jet. Ready to go. But there was no way to assign us. To confirm us. To release us to fly the flight. And we watched as our customers got stranded without their luggage missing their Christmas holiday.
I believe that our new CEO Bob Jordan inherited a MESS. This meltdown was not his failure but the failure of those before him. I believe he has the right priorities. But it will take time to right this ship. A few years at a minimum. Old leaders need to be replaced. Operationally oriented managers need to be brought in. I hope and pray Bob can execute on his promises to fix our once proud airline. Time will tell.
It’s been a punch in the gut for us frontline employees. We care for the traveling public. We have spent our entire careers serving you. Safely. Efficiently. With luv and pride. We are horrified. We are sorry. We are sorry for the chaos, inconvenience and frustration our airline caused you. We are angry. We are embarrassed. We are sad. Like you, the traveling public, we have been let down by our own leaders.
Herb once said the the biggest threat to Southwest Airlines will come from within. Not from other airlines. What a visionary he was. I miss Herb now more than ever.
#SWAPA #SouthwestAirlines
the article is from someone in the Southwest Airlines Pilot Association
Voices From The Line: Larry Lonero
What happened to Southwest Airlines?
I’ve been a pilot for Southwest Airlines for over 35 years. I’ve given my heart and soul to Southwest Airlines during those years. And quite honestly Southwest Airlines has given its heart and soul to me and my family.
Many of you have asked what caused this epic meltdown. Unfortunately, the frontline employees have been watching this meltdown coming like a slow motion train wreck for sometime. And we’ve been begging our leadership to make much needed changes in order to avoid it. What happened yesterday started two decades ago.
Herb Kelleher was the brilliant CEO of SWA until 2004. He was a very operationally oriented leader. Herb spent lots of time on the front line. He always had his pulse on the day to day operation and the people who ran it. That philosophy flowed down through the ranks of leadership to the front line managers. We were a tight operation from top to bottom. We had tools, leadership and employee buy in. Everything that was needed to run a first class operation. When Herb retired in 2004 Gary Kelly became the new CEO.
Gary was an accountant by education and his style leading Southwest Airlines became more focused on finances and less on operations. He did not spend much time on the front lines. He didn’t engage front line employees much. When the CEO doesn’t get out in the trenches the neither do the lower levels of leadership.
Gary named another accountant to be Chief Operating Officer (the person responsible for day to day operations). The new COO had little or no operational background. This trickled down through the lower levels of leadership, as well.
They all disengaged the operation, disengaged the employees and focused more on Return on Investment, stock buybacks and Wall Street. This approach worked for Gary’s first 8 years because we were still riding the strong wave that Herb had built.
But as time went on the operation began to deteriorate. There was little investment in upgrading technology (after all, how do you measure the return on investing in infrastructure?) or the tools we needed to operate efficiently and consistently. As the frontline employees began to see the deterioration in our operation we began to warn our leadership. We educated them, we informed them and we made suggestions to them. But to no avail. The focus was on finances not operations. As we saw more and more deterioration in our operation our asks turned to pleas. Our pleas turned to dire warnings. But they went unheeded. After all, the stock price was up so what could be wrong?
We were a motivated, willing and proud employee group wanting to serve our customers and uphold the tradition of our beloved airline, the airline we built and the airline that the traveling public grew to cheer for and luv. But we were watching in frustration and disbelief as our once amazing airline was becoming a house of cards.
A half dozen small scale meltdowns occurred during the mid to late 2010’s. With each mini meltdown Leadership continued to ignore the pleas and warnings of the employees in the trenches. We were still operating with 1990’s technology. We didn’t have the tools we needed on the line to operate the sophisticated and large airline we had become. We could see that the wheels were about ready to fall off the bus. But no one in leadership would heed our pleas.
When COVID happened SWA scaled back considerably (as did all of the airlines) for about two years. This helped conceal the serious problems in technology, infrastructure and staffing that were occurring and being ignored. But as we ramped back up the lack of attention to the operation was waiting to show its ugly head.
Gary Kelly retired as CEO in early 2022. Bob Jordan was named CEO. He was a more operationally oriented leader. He replaced our Chief Operating Officer with a very smart man and they announced their priority would be to upgrade our airline’s technology and provide the frontline employees the operational tools we needed to care for our customers and employees. Finally, someone acknowledged the elephant in the room.
But two decades of neglect takes several years to overcome. And, unfortunately to our horror, our house of cards came tumbling down this week as a routine winter storm broke our 1990’s operating system.
The frontline employees were ready and on station. We were properly staffed. We were at the airports. Hell, we were ON the airplanes. But our antiquated software systems failed coupled with a decades old system of having to manage 20,000 frontline employees by phone calls. No automation had been developed to run this sophisticated machine.
We had a routine winter storm across the Midwest last Thursday. A larger than normal number flights were cancelled as a result. But what should have been one minor inconvenient day of travel turned into this nightmare. After all, American, United, Delta and the other airlines operated with only minor flight disruptions.
The two decades of neglect by SWA leadership caused the airline to lose track of all its crews. ALL of us. We were there. With our customers. At the jet. Ready to go. But there was no way to assign us. To confirm us. To release us to fly the flight. And we watched as our customers got stranded without their luggage missing their Christmas holiday.
I believe that our new CEO Bob Jordan inherited a MESS. This meltdown was not his failure but the failure of those before him. I believe he has the right priorities. But it will take time to right this ship. A few years at a minimum. Old leaders need to be replaced. Operationally oriented managers need to be brought in. I hope and pray Bob can execute on his promises to fix our once proud airline. Time will tell.
It’s been a punch in the gut for us frontline employees. We care for the traveling public. We have spent our entire careers serving you. Safely. Efficiently. With luv and pride. We are horrified. We are sorry. We are sorry for the chaos, inconvenience and frustration our airline caused you. We are angry. We are embarrassed. We are sad. Like you, the traveling public, we have been let down by our own leaders.
Herb once said the the biggest threat to Southwest Airlines will come from within. Not from other airlines. What a visionary he was. I miss Herb now more than ever.
#SWAPA #SouthwestAirlines
Here comes the accountant bashing...
Same story as Boeing, but Boeing doesn’t have an engineer anywhere near the top of the ladder.Here comes the accountant bashing...
cessna182b
Line Up and Wait
Son and wife travelled from LAX to BWI on Spirit yesterday. Other than being an hour late departing, no issues. We have used Southwest quite a few times since they started serving our local
airport a couple of years ago (much more convenient than the abomination that is LAX). Didn't work out this time (fortunately, as it turns out).
Dave
texasclouds
En-Route
Man, that’s rough.
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SoonerAviator
A good accountant will be out on the front lines, too. Can I run the show from my home office? Sure. However, what you learn by walking through a manufacturing plant a few times a week isn't able to be observed from behind a computer monitor. Merging how you think it works with how it works on the production floor is a key part of this SWA failure. If you see how much of a risk is involved with the software when a minor weather system rolls through, it generally puts the fire under your tail to make sure it won't be a risk in the future.Here comes the accountant bashing...
Preaching to the choir, brother.
What the pilot should have said was they put someone with an MBA in charge and left us accountants out of it.
One of the seldom mentioned problems with our new COVID-induced work-from-home culture, too.
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SoonerAviator
Luckily in my professional career, I have been a part of companies who encouraged travel to the various sites which I was overseeing even though the "accounting work" was able to be done from my office. I traveled about 2 weeks per quarter for 10+ years visiting sites on a rotating schedule. A half dozen sites in TX, a few in OK, LA, PA, ND, WY, CO, Alberta Province, CN, Dubai, etc and nearly every visit resulted a conversation that no one would email or phone me about, but they were eager to ask once I walked through the plant doors.
One of the seldom mentioned problems with our new COVID-induced work-from-home culture, too.
It taught me a lot about how operations works, and even more about how to be a manager in those environments.
I once pointed out an error on an engineering drawing. I'm not your average accountant. I do take issue when we are disparaged. As I said above, the things that get attributed to accountants doing bad things is really what MBAs have become. Suck the enterprise dry to line personal pockets. They do it "for the sake of the shareholders." It's the leadership that has large amounts of shares. They are doing it for themselves.
My company's next CEO will most likely be "an accountant." What he will do will have nothing to do with accounting.
My company's next CEO will most likely be "an accountant." What he will do will have nothing to do with accounting.
Tantalum
Final Approach
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San_Diego_Pilot
jk
Too bad, when things implode like this it's the front line people in operations who end up bearing most of the brunt and having to do the whole "above and beyond" thing typically without receiving any objective reward for said above and beyond work..
I have a few friends who swear by southwest, have the credit card make full use of the companion Pass all that jazz. I have voluntarily booked a Southwest Airline flight twice, and had one booked for me a third time. I don't get the appeal. The whole operation feels antiquated, but not in a nostalgic way, kind of just in a "why do they do things like this" way. All three of the flights had not insignificant departure delays.. not related to weather. One of the flights simply didn't have anybody at our gate for a full 40 minutes after we landed
.. at some point when most people only book their tickets purely on whatever is the cheapest you can't really be surprised
Too bad, when things implode like this it's the front line people in operations who end up bearing most of the brunt and having to do the whole "above and beyond" thing typically without receiving any objective reward for said above and beyond work..
I have a few friends who swear by southwest, have the credit card make full use of the companion Pass all that jazz. I have voluntarily booked a Southwest Airline flight twice, and had one booked for me a third time. I don't get the appeal. The whole operation feels antiquated, but not in a nostalgic way, kind of just in a "why do they do things like this" way. All three of the flights had not insignificant departure delays.. not related to weather. One of the flights simply didn't have anybody at our gate for a full 40 minutes after we landed
.. at some point when most people only book their tickets purely on whatever is the cheapest you can't really be surprised
AKiss20
Line Up and Wait
Or railroads with PSR.
DaleB
Final Approach
Well, that's me... most of the time. I do favor one airline now, but Continental taught me years ago that customer loyalty is utterly meaningless in the long run anyway. I've looked at Southwest many times and have almost never found them to be even close to cheapest. They advertise cheap fares, but by the time you get to the end of the process they're generally more expensive than, say, American or Delta. In fact, out of curiosity I compared SWA's price for the flight I just booked yesterday - OMA/LGA, round trip, over 2 weeks out. It's about the same as I'm paying on another carrier, except now I get to pick my seat and don't have to worry about beating everyone else to the gate so I'm not stuck in the middle seat next to the aft lav. Plus, you know, I'm pretty sure my flight will actually happen...
Maybe it's just the trips I routinely fly, but in all the travel I've done over the past 25 years (nowhere near what some of you guys have done) I think I've flown Southwest maybe 3 times - and not experienced anything that would make me want to do it again.
Possum
Pre-takeoff checklist
The canceled flight situation is getting very serious.......
Cade Klubnik's parents reportedly went above and beyond to be in attendance for their son's first collegiate start.
Per The Athletic's David Ubben: "Clemson quarterback Cade Klubnik’s parents’ flight out of Austin was canceled. They picked up a rental car at 10 p.m., drove overnight and are currently in the middle of a 20-hour drive across the country to Miami for the Orange Bowl, their son’s first college start."
The football world reacted to Klubnik's parents' dedication on Twitter.
"Elite parenting," tweeted Ross Dellenger.
"That's good stuff."
"That feeling when you reach the 'Welcome to Florida sign and realize you're halfway there," commented colleague G. Allan Taylor.
"Arch’s folks taking the family jet in this situation," a user replied.
"One word: commitment. #AllIn."
"Don’t blame them," replied Clemson Tom. "I wouldn’t miss it either."
Shoutout to the Klubnik's.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nc...orange-bowl-after-canceled-flight/ar-AA15KcDn
Cade Klubnik's parents reportedly went above and beyond to be in attendance for their son's first collegiate start.
Per The Athletic's David Ubben: "Clemson quarterback Cade Klubnik’s parents’ flight out of Austin was canceled. They picked up a rental car at 10 p.m., drove overnight and are currently in the middle of a 20-hour drive across the country to Miami for the Orange Bowl, their son’s first college start."
The football world reacted to Klubnik's parents' dedication on Twitter.
"Elite parenting," tweeted Ross Dellenger.
"That's good stuff."
"That feeling when you reach the 'Welcome to Florida sign and realize you're halfway there," commented colleague G. Allan Taylor.
"Arch’s folks taking the family jet in this situation," a user replied.
"One word: commitment. #AllIn."
"Don’t blame them," replied Clemson Tom. "I wouldn’t miss it either."
Shoutout to the Klubnik's.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nc...orange-bowl-after-canceled-flight/ar-AA15KcDn
OneCharlieTango
Cleared for Takeoff
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OneCharlieTango
The SWA Pilot’s Lament — the little essay above, apparently written by a 35-year veteran — blames the situation on some things that aren’t unique to SWA. For instance, at least one of the majors has a scheduling system that relies on telephone calls. If he’s got the causes right, it could’ve been any other airline having these problems.
This thread talks like the end is nigh for SWA. Maybe. Maybe not. The public’s memory is pretty short. People who recently said “I’ll never fly on a 737 Max” now say “what was that airplane that, like, crashed itself? Ok Google, sort by fares, lowest to highest.”
This thread talks like the end is nigh for SWA. Maybe. Maybe not. The public’s memory is pretty short. People who recently said “I’ll never fly on a 737 Max” now say “what was that airplane that, like, crashed itself? Ok Google, sort by fares, lowest to highest.”
RussR
En-Route
???
I fly SWA pretty regularly and it's been a long time since boarding order has been determined by when you get to the gate.
When I see quotes like this it’s always just a one way street. How about some of those workers follow the accountant or engineer around once a week as well in order to understand the limitations and requirements of their job. A lot can be learned from both sides. Maybe it’s more than just money that is keeping things from happening. Usually the workers don’t want to recognize anything outside their own little world as it easier to just blame nameless and faceless other people and call it a “management problem”
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3G
That has been my experience on every commercial flight I’ve taken since about January 2008, when I last flew British Airways from London to Dar Es Salaam, TZ.
Wasn’t even business class (unfortunately), but that was the last time I felt like an airline made flying special.
A very long time and I go back to the plastic boarding card days on SWA.
DaleB
Final Approach
It's been a long time since a SWA flight was the best way for me to get anywhere, so I haven't flown them in quite a while. How do they do it now?
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
You can Check In online 24 hours ahead of ETD. That'll usually get you in A group, maybe high in B. But don't wait to long, ya gotta be quick at the stroke of 24 hours before ETD. There's also Pre Check or something like that. For $15 I think it is now you can do it before the 24 hour thing so you don't have to worry about being online and ready to go at the stroke of 24 hours before.
jimhorner
Line Up and Wait
Three groups, A, B, & C, each ordered 1-60.
Boarding order:
Preboards (People needing assistance or extra time, i.e. wheelchairs, etc.) Must have arranged to be a preboard earlier, not at the gate.
A1-60
Families with small children, Uniformed military personel, A list and A list preferred who weren't in the A1-60 group
B1-60
C1-60
How boarding order is assigned:
People who pay for business select are A 1-15.
People who have Alist or Alist preferred status (Depends on points earned or legs flown during the year) get next assigned automaticly by the computer system to a boarding position depending on the order of ticket purchase.
Then People who paid $20-$25 for Earlybird checkin get assigned depending on order of ticket purchase.
Remaining boarding positions are assigned by order of checkin which opens 24 hours prior to the scheduled flight time.
If one cares about what seat one has, it's worth it to pay for Earlybird or be ready to checkin right at the time checkin opens.
bflynn
Final Approach
There has to be something else in the ordering. I've purchased tickets 36 hours in advance and had A-16. I've also noticed the same faces in the same order on weekly flights.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
I disagree. If you have an A boarding slot - but don't show up until C is boarding - you are now C class and your A slot is meaningless.
On other airlines (oversold situations aside), as long as you get to the gate before the gate is closed, you will secure the same seat & "class".
MIFlyer
Pattern Altitude
I like SWA cancellation policies (you can cancel pretty short notice and keep the money for another flight). It's a good backup to GA plans, though you have to manage the funds, it's not that hard.
Traveling with family, I've paid to have one adult get into A15 boarding to go get us some seats for the kids. I do agree that getting up at 6am to check in 24 hours in advance is a pain.
Overall, I'm happy with SWA and hope they make some changes and bounce back. Maybe they'll have some good sales, etc in the meantime to lure people back once they get ops running right.
Traveling with family, I've paid to have one adult get into A15 boarding to go get us some seats for the kids. I do agree that getting up at 6am to check in 24 hours in advance is a pain.
Overall, I'm happy with SWA and hope they make some changes and bounce back. Maybe they'll have some good sales, etc in the meantime to lure people back once they get ops running right.
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3G
United will call you the moment inline check-in starts as a friendly reminder to help avoid being C group.
https://notgroupc.com/
The trashy/in vogue SWA flyer simply self-elects to pre-board nowadays though to avoid being part of the cattle chute experience.
Larry in TN
En-Route
No. The airplanes flown by (the original) Braniff are obsolete today, but they were mainstream when Braniff flew them. B707, B727, & B747 at the time of the oil embargo.
I think the advantage of SWA's pricing, for many consumers, is that it is relatively simple and understandable. It's often not the cheapest, but you don't know that unless you go to other websites to price other airlines. Sometimes they are cheaper, but you certainly can't count on it. Often they are not.
DaleB
Final Approach
The appeal of every OTHER airline is, for me, the ability to get ALL the prices from any number of websites (Expedia, Travelocity, Kayak, Chase, and on and on) to let me pick the one I want. Then if I want to check SWA it's a separate website and a new search. This duplication of effort never seems to yield more than a single-digit dollar amount of difference in price, so I generally don't bother. I do like the free checked bag, but to me it's not worth the extra boarding dance. I may not get great seats on some other airline, since they now charge extra for half the seats on any given flight -- but at least I know where I'm sitting, and I'm sitting there whether I show up early or show up late.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Decades
Lindberg
Final Approach
You can cancel up to the time the plane leaves, and all of their fares are either refundable or reusable. I did once know I was going to miss a flight on American, and they let me cancel and go standby later in the day. I wound up having to go into EWR instead of PHL, and the nice agent declined to charge me a change fee. But that was luck of the draw.
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Lindberg
Final Approach
On most airlines, if you're not on board at the end of regular boarding, your seat may go to a standby. If that happens, even if you get on board, you won't get your seat back. But I believe Russ was referring to the old SWA system where you got a card with your boarding number upon checking in at the gate.
I find where SWA shines is the less common airport pairs that have non-stop flights. I have to go Baltimore to Bradenton in three weeks to see my folks. Non-stop, automatic check in, tax, title, fees and factory rustproofing for $300. Every other major was double that even with a stop in Dallas or Atlanta taking a lot longer.
luvflyin
Touchdown! Greaser!
I thought United had reserved seating. You get your seat assignment when you book. But whadda I know, last time I flew United was about 4 years ago.