What happened to Southwest?

Canceling all or most flights untill Jan 1 st doesn’t really make sense unless your instituting new systems and procedures.
 
The same thing happened with American at one point last winter and Delta in the middle of summer a few years back. It isn't just a southwest problem, it's an industry problem. When was the last time you flew and the plane wasn't packed full? Any interruption and where do the displaced passengers go if all the other flights are already booked solid? Airlines no longer have any buffer built into their flight schedules so when something goes wrong it really goes wrong. It just happened that the issues piled up on Southwest this time. Next time it could be any other airline.
 
kmacht said:
The same thing happened with American at one point last winter and Delta in the middle of summer a few years back. It isn't just a southwest problem, it's an industry problem. When was the last time you flew and the plane wasn't packed full?
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I last flew in October. Two domestic segments and two international segments. The flights were 2/3rds full at most.
 
DesertNomad said:
I last flew in October. Two domestic segments and two international segments. The flights were 2/3rds full at most.
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Consider yourself lucky. International flights are still hit or miss on loads, but every domestic Delta flight I’ve been on in the last year (I fly Delta to Texas monthly) has been 100 percent full.
 
frfly172 said:
Canceling all or most flights untill Jan 1 st doesn’t really make sense unless your instituting new systems and procedures.
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If they’ve got to figure out where thousands of pilots are via a phone system that’s problematic and then get airplanes and pilots into some form of position that matches the schedule, I can see it being a week.
 
DesertNomad said:
I last flew in October. Two domestic segments and two international segments. The flights were 2/3rds full at most.
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Dang. I haven't seen more than like 5 empty seats on a plane in an age.

I recently grabbed a SWA flight and was boarding group C34 or so. I'm pretty sure that would have landed me on a winglet. I've never brassed up for A-List so fast before. :D

I'm having the best luck with United of late. They're all getting really annoying with the constant upsells though (United no exception). I long for a high-cost carrier where I don't need to play monty hall to get a seat, a bag, and a snack for my $800 itinerary.

I love it when there are no "free" seats to choose beforehand. The dark patterns are hideous and tiresome and I want it to wreck these companies so badly. But then I remember -- this is what the price of accessibility to air travel looks like. So my 2023 motto is going to be "more Baron, less b*xching". At the prices I've been seeing, even solo it will be about parity with the cost of fuel anyway, and I can sit wherever I want and my snacks are way better.
 
In April I did a round trip to London - that one was about 2/3 full at most. Everything since then has been packed tight. On ONE flight I had an empty seat next to me, but that was astonishing. Most are packed so tight that at the arrival gate they've got to peel back the top of the plane and take you out with a little fork.
 
TCABM said:
The old Midwest Express/Midwest Airlines is sorely missed.
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That was a GREAT airline. Real silverware, decent meal, linen napkins, great looking FA's (back when it wasn't politically incorrect to notice). Flew that a few times for business, we'll never see the likes of that again, at least domestically.
 
TCABM said:
The old Midwest Express/Midwest Airlines is sorely missed.
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Hell, the **old** damn near any airline is sorely missed. The best of them now suck compared to the worst of the 80s/90s, it seem like. Or at least the decent ones back then.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
That was a GREAT airline. Real silverware, decent meal, linen napkins, great looking FA's (back when it wasn't politically incorrect to notice). Flew that a few times for business, we'll never see the likes of that again, at least domestically.
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Did you see the name has been resurrected?

https://flymidwestexpress.com/
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Unfortunately I can't say our system is newer than Southwest's. We are running out of people that know how to program it.
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Years ago I read that non-customer-facing software used by most airlines is old and rickety. Sounds like it still is.
 
murphey said:
Had to get something from the locked storeroom at Costco yesterday. System is running a DOS port on a Windows system....one of the managers said "ancient, but it still does what we need it to do!" all the while laughing at the technology.
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Sounds like the initial plot point of the recent Battlestar Galactica.
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
That was a GREAT airline. Real silverware, decent meal, linen napkins, great looking FA's (back when it wasn't politically incorrect to notice). Flew that a few times for business, we'll never see the likes of that again, at least domestically.
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That description reminds me of Braniff 1 when my Dad was flying.
 
The software was probably adequate - it's the business processes that have changed. Like using a wrench to drive nails - could be a real good wrench, but. . .. All software sucks. All. It's just a matter of degree. New apps are no more (or less) adaptable than the stuff from the 90's.
 
NoHeat said:
Years ago I read that non-customer-facing software used by most airlines is old and rickety. Sounds like it still is.
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SABRE is decades old…the original system was written in a language so ancient & obscure even I don’t remember it, and I love old programming languages to illustrate in class the evolution of software.

https://www.sabre.com/about/
 
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AggieMike88 said:
That description reminds me of Braniff 1 when my Dad was flying.
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I loved Braniff! And the original Continental. Wayback when. Braniff always made sure the Texas football team and band traveled on the orange aircraft. In return, the crews were guests of the band at the games.
 
murphey said:
SABRE is decades old…the original system was written in a language so ancient & obscure even I don’t remember it, and I love old programming languages to illustrate in class the evolution of software.

https://www.sabre.com/about/
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Back in my college days, computer science 1984, SABRE was used as a case study. It was really groundbreaking.
 
Have a Southwest flight booked on Jan 2nd (work booked it) BOS-BNA.

I have inquired if we are making adjustments. No word yet.
 
murphey said:
SABRE is decades old…the original system was written in a language so ancient & obscure even I don’t remember it, and I love old programming languages to illustrate in class the evolution of software.

https://www.sabre.com/about/
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Abit of an update….if you look at job openings at SABRE, lots of C++, Linux, NoSQL ( but no indication of which one, and there are many), and so on. Really intriguing. And lots of APIs so other developers can build apps to use the various product lines.
 
kaiser said:
Awesome. This is basically the use case that justifies my entire career field. Now I have another 15 second elevator speech for my back pocket.
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Exactly! Next meeting I'll just say "Southwest" when there's hesitancy in upgrading systems...
 
My story has nothing to do with the current situation with Southwest. I know many people are frustrated right now, however, many years ago they treated me really well and I've never forgotten it, never will.

In 1999, I got a call that my parents had been brutally attacked and they weren't sure either of them would survive (they did). I was in Austin, they were in Kansas. Back then, you could go to the airport, get a ticket at the counter, and get on a plane. I headed to the airport and to the SW counter. When I got there, I asked for a one-way ticket to Amarillo, which was the closest airport to my parents. The agent selling me the ticket said he could get me to Dallas, but couldn't guarantee I would get on the plane from Dallas to Amarillo. I said that was okay, just get me on the plane to Dallas and I'll get on the plane there. He must have told me three or more times that he wasn't sure if he could get me on the plane in Dallas, and was really rude about it. At some point, my emotions overwhelmed me and I told him to just book the flight and shut up about it. His manager heard me and asked what was wrong and I told him. He took over and got me the ticket and sent me on my way.

On the flight to Dallas, which is very short, the plane was almost empty. The flight attendant offered me peanuts and I told her no. She asked where I was heading and I broke down. Tears running down my face, I told her her my parents had been attacked and might not survive and the ticket agent had told me I might not get on the plane in Dallas. She told me she'd be right back.

She came back soon and sat with me. She told me I would get on the plane when we landed, the Captain had promised her. She gave me a bag full of peanuts and other snacks, and a card signed by the whole crew. She said the snacks weren't much, but I might need them while sitting at the hospital. When we landed in Dallas, she walked me to the front of the plane and to my surprise, she got off with me. She walked me to the plane headed to Amarillo and walked me straight onto the plane before anyone else boarded. So many years later, this act of kindness gets to me. The Southwest team went above and beyond for me when I needed it most. I'll remain loyal to them! They'll be fine in the long run, they have way too many good employees to fail.
 
Lindberg said:
Blame them or don't, but I don't think pilots who admittedly aren't willing to go the extra mile should complain about others gutting Herb's philosophy.
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Southwest has a bit of a reputation for the way they treat employees who say negative things on social media, so I am not willing to give details about who told me this.

But, before all this happened, I was told by a long time SW pilot that he used to be willing to go the extra mile (extend days, pick up extra trips, etc), but in the last 5 or so years the culture has gone from the "company takes care of employees so the employees take care of the company" to "anything you say or do can and will be used against you, so going above and beyond is just more opportunity for the company to single you out (via write-ups or the JAs cited earlier in this thread)".
 
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Lowflynjack said:
They'll be fine in the long run, they have way too many good employees to fail.
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Not disagreeing with you or suggesting you shouldn't fly SWA, but your comment above is not a guarantee anymore.

Southwest has done well for so many years because they really treated their employees well. That was part of SWAs culture under Herb.

It's not the case anymore and if they continue on their current path, we are going to see more and more disgruntled employees that aren't going to be as committed to keeping the airline alive. I don't want SWA to fail. I have too many friends who fly for them to wish that. But I worry that if management doesn't see things like this a wake up call to right the ship, then their future could be an unpleasant one.

Plenty of airlines are no longer with us today because management failed to react to the GPWS......
 
MarkH said:
But, before all this happened, I was told by a long time SW pilot that he used to be willing to go the extra mile (extend days, pick up extra trips, etc), but in the last 5 or so years the culture has gone from the "company takes care of employees so the employees take care of the company" to "anything you say or do can and will be used against you, so going above and beyond is just more opportunity for the company to single you out (via write-ups or the JAs cited earlier in this thread)".
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Exactly. There is some dark stuff going on behind the scenes at SWA. To be fair, most majors have had to deal with those kinds of issues. My point being SWA is nothing special anymore. They are just another major airline with major airline problems.
 
Hunter Handsfield said:
NPR has aired a superb discussion with Casey Murray, president of SWA's pilots association, describing pilots' perspectives on the ongoing disaster.
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I'm not with SWA, but I had dinner with Casey Murray back in July and he struck me as a very intelligent, level headed individual. Apologists will say hindsight is 20/20, but a SWA buddy sent me this about an hour ago:

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I just rented a car for my kid to drive from Little Rock to Scottsdale…SWA cancelled her flight for tomorrow, two days ago…a simple text and no other notification. There just were no viable options out of there and the one time I am down with a hip replacement surgery and the airplane in AZ as she borrowed it while dad was down. I have not discussed the situation with anyone who I know that works there, but the quality and dedication to the company I have witnessed over the years has always gained my admiration. SWA has an amazing pool of hard working employees.

My last two SWA flights in June and October both were canceled day of travel, and I was able to Non-rev to get to my destination on United with some luck. Unfortunately this further incident makes me wonder if I can ever trust them again.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Back when i was mulling entertaining a 121 transition, i found out about that little gem. At first i thought that was just regional airline fodder, Nope. Big airlines do it too. Thats a hard pass for me dawg. I didn't give up 20 years of literal life agency starting in my late 20 with .mil, just to eat another 10 of that guano in my 50s because "bUh SeNiOriTy".

Im just being generic with that comment btw. It is my understanding not all airlines contractually abuse their chatel like that. My workplace is plurality SWA, so im already well read on the tricks they pull on the regular in order to notch the JA, and thats before i bring up the civilian antagonizing angle (same month tactical mil-drop). Seems a bit unbecoming to feign fatigue in order to get out of that ludicrous contractual trap, but i guess thats why ill have to do something else in my 50s. Lord knows id quit a job i dont need for less, now that i think about it, i might make a great DEN swa ramper right about now :D too soon?
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The big airlines don’t actually do that. In fact the Delta contract specifically prohibits tag on flying at the end of a rotation.
 
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