What good is an ATP rating?

WDD said:
View attachment 95755
Click to expand...
tenor.gif
 
Kritchlow said:
The real question is what good does a SE ATP do?? I suppose there may be some
PC-12 operators out there that require it?? But is there any FAA mandate?
Click to expand...
Part 135 jet pic, so if you flew a Cirrus jet or some such under 135, you’d need a single engine ATP.

Scheduled 135 used to require it, but apparently not anymore.
Anyone here have a SE ATP? And if so, is there anything single engine specific in the ride, such as some sort of accuracy engine out landing?
Click to expand...
Why, yes, I am such a stupendously qualified pilot. I got my initial ATP certificate in a Bonanza so I could fly as captain in King Airs. Yeah, really. It’s pushing 30 years ago, and I remember being impressed with the Fed’s thorough, but very practical, systems oral, but I don’t recall anything beyond the normal 135 ride in the airplane.
 
Kritchlow said:
Lol... I do get the confusion.
When looking at the FAA registry, for an airman with type ratings, does it show the type ratings preceded with the level of certificate, or the level of certificate when the rating was received??
If you go to the data base of someone who has a type, the type is preceded with the grade of certificate. Why? And if a type is achieved with a CPL, listed as C/B737, then the airman gets his ATP, does it change to A/B737 ?
It’s baffling to me.
Click to expand...

From FAAO 8900.2C. Form 8060-4 is the temporary airman certificate.

(1) When FAA Form 8060-4 changes an airman’s certificate to a higher grade, all aircraft type ratings shown on the superseded certificate within category and class are brought forward to the higher grade of certificate. If an aircraft type rating on the superseded certificate is limited to VFR, that limitation is carried forward to the higher grade of certificate. (Aircraft type ratings limited to VFR may be upgraded to the ATP level without further testing, but will bear the same limitation.)

More explanation elsewhere in the document, saying this is because all type ratings are conducted to ATP standards.

76. General. An aircraft type rating may be added to a private, commercial pilot, or ATP certificate. However, type rating practical tests are conducted to a single standard for all certificate levels. Regardless of the grade of certificate held, an applicant must meet the standards for a type rating in the appropriate ATP and aircraft type rating PTS. All type ratings within category and class held on a superseded certificate or issued under the military competence provisions are carried forward to the new certificate level without further testing. Type ratings limited to VFR also may be upgraded to the ATP level without further testing. A type rating for a single-place (single pilot station) airplane may not be upgraded to the ATP level.

How the part I bolded reads to me is this: if you had a Commercial - AMEL and ASEL certificate with type ratings in a Learjet and a Cirrus Vision Jet, and upgraded your certificate to an ATP-AMEL (using, say, a Seminole), you would then have ATP-AMEL with CP privileges in ASEL, and only your Learjet type rating would be at the ATP level, while your Vision Jet type rating would still be at the CP level.
 
35 AoA said:
haha, well I could have just sucked it up and taken a few days of leave like my other friends did. I remember thinking at the time "meh, too much work" haha.
Click to expand...

That’s the same attitude I had. I knew guys taking leave to knock it out but I didn’t see the point. Should’ve gotten it done before they changed the rules. Then again, I’m pretty sure I’ll never need the rating. Jobs that require the ATP in my field are generally located in areas that don’t suit my goals.
 
My old CFI told me about the chunk of money the airline needs to pay to get him to ATP airliner rated after he arrived at boot camp. But the first time he’ll actually fly an airliner will be in a revenue flight with people on board - albeit with a senior captain in the left seat.
 
RussR said:
From FAAO 8900.2C. Form 8060-4 is the temporary airman certificate.

(1) When FAA Form 8060-4 changes an airman’s certificate to a higher grade, all aircraft type ratings shown on the superseded certificate within category and class are brought forward to the higher grade of certificate. If an aircraft type rating on the superseded certificate is limited to VFR, that limitation is carried forward to the higher grade of certificate. (Aircraft type ratings limited to VFR may be upgraded to the ATP level without further testing, but will bear the same limitation.)

More explanation elsewhere in the document, saying this is because all type ratings are conducted to ATP standards.

76. General. An aircraft type rating may be added to a private, commercial pilot, or ATP certificate. However, type rating practical tests are conducted to a single standard for all certificate levels. Regardless of the grade of certificate held, an applicant must meet the standards for a type rating in the appropriate ATP and aircraft type rating PTS. All type ratings within category and class held on a superseded certificate or issued under the military competence provisions are carried forward to the new certificate level without further testing. Type ratings limited to VFR also may be upgraded to the ATP level without further testing. A type rating for a single-place (single pilot station) airplane may not be upgraded to the ATP level.

How the part I bolded reads to me is this: if you had a Commercial - AMEL and ASEL certificate with type ratings in a Learjet and a Cirrus Vision Jet, and upgraded your certificate to an ATP-AMEL (using, say, a Seminole), you would then have ATP-AMEL with CP privileges in ASEL, and only your Learjet type rating would be at the ATP level, while your Vision Jet type rating would still be at the CP level.
Click to expand...
I’m going to roll with that..
It’s the most plausible explanation I have heard yet as to why they put the prefix on the type.
 
RussR said:
Wait a minute... so you HAVE an ATP, but posted here asking what it does for you? Can't you answer that from personal experience? Your OP came across as implying pretty typical request for advice like "why should I get an ATP?" but... you already have one. So, why are you even asking again?
Click to expand...

The moment when OP exited the thread :mad2:
 
RussR said:
Wait a minute... so you HAVE an ATP, but posted here asking what it does for you? Can't you answer that from personal experience? Your OP came across as implying pretty typical request for advice like "why should I get an ATP?" but... you already have one. So, why are you even asking again?
Click to expand...


iu
 
Velocity173 said:
That’s the same attitude I had. I knew guys taking leave to knock it out but I didn’t see the point. Should’ve gotten it done before they changed the rules. Then again, I’m pretty sure I’ll never need the rating. Jobs that require the ATP in my field are generally located in areas that don’t suit my goals.
Click to expand...
Made me curious. Our big hospital here is looking for a chief rotor pilot. They do list ATP as a qualification. But only 2nd class medical. Interesting.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Made me curious. Our big hospital here is looking for a chief rotor pilot. They do list ATP as a qualification. But only 2nd class medical. Interesting.
Click to expand...

That’s pretty rare for that position even for an EMS chief pilot. This is typical of mandatory requirements:

https://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Rotary+Wing/Chief+Pilot/Brooklyn+Center-Minnesota/jobID_737569

ATP in helos usually requires 2 pilots, IFR and in most cases like I said, locations that are undesirable. So, that means flying S92s to oil platforms in the Gulf. Not for me. Or, like a lot of friends of mine, flying for Middle East countries on govt contracts. Also, not for me but the $$$ is good.
 
Velocity173 said:
That’s pretty rare for that position even for an EMS chief pilot. This is typical of mandatory requirements:

https://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Rotary+Wing/Chief+Pilot/Brooklyn+Center-Minnesota/jobID_737569

ATP in helos usually requires 2 pilots, IFR and in most cases like I said, locations that are undesirable. So, that means flying S92s to oil platforms in the Gulf. Not for me. Or, like a lot of friends of mine, flying for Middle East countries on govt contracts. Also, not for me but the $$$ is good.
Click to expand...
I guess I should read better. They have it as preferred and not required.

https://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Rotary...s+and+Lead+Pilot/Peoria-Illinois/jobID_738798
 
Not sure of anything in the helo employment field, but wouldn’t it stand to reason if competing for a job the ATP has that advantage over a CP ?
 
Velocity173 said:
Friend of mine flew Bell 222s for a med program in Peoria. Left because the money was crap. He now works for a private contractor making 3 times the pay. But, he’s gone (Afghanistan) 6 months out of the year to do that.
Click to expand...
Can't speak to the pay but the air traffic in the area is great. Top notch pilots. :D
 
Kritchlow said:
The real question is what good does a SE ATP do?? I suppose there may be some
PC-12 operators out there that require it?? But is there any FAA mandate?

Anyone here have a SE ATP? And if so, is there anything single engine specific in the ride, such as some sort of accuracy engine out landing?
Click to expand...
I’m seriously thinking about getting my SEL ATP for the sole reason of just cleaning up my license. Silly reason, I know, but hey...
 
Velocity173 said:
ATP in helos usually requires 2 pilots, IFR and in most cases
Click to expand...
FYI: there are a several oil companies in the GOM (mostly EU based) that require ATPs even in single pilot/dual engine ops. And just about all the oil companies require an ATP for the PIC in the IFR ops.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I’m seriously thinking about getting my SEL ATP for the sole reason of just cleaning up my license. Silly reason, I know, but hey...
Click to expand...
I have also thought of this for the exact same reason. But, I haven’t flown a SE airplane in 25 years. Not sure how much extra time it would take me to get up to speed.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Very true. In fact some turbine aircraft have type waivers to remove the requirement of a type rating.
Click to expand...
Did not know this.
I believe a King Air 200 is a rare type. The aircraft does not require one, but I believe the rating exists as some sort of military carryover.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I’m seriously thinking about getting my SEL ATP for the sole reason of just cleaning up my license. Silly reason, I know, but hey...
Click to expand...
I thought about doing this at one point, but ultimately it wouldn’t have made a difference because there is no ATP for gliders.
 
Kritchlow said:
Lol!!! Air Tractor inc. I’m ignorant to the company, but obviously successful in their petition. That said, it looks like the waiver expired 26 years ago!!
Click to expand...
It has been renewed and is still active. That revision was just the first one that google found. It’s a hell of an airplane.
 
Kritchlow said:
I have also thought of this for the exact same reason. But, I haven’t flown a SE airplane in 25 years. Not sure how much extra time it would take me to get up to speed.
Click to expand...
I doubt it would be very much. The add-on checkride to the MEL ATP isn’t very difficult (from what I hear).
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: there are a several oil companies in the GOM (mostly EU based) that require ATPs even in single pilot/dual engine ops. And just about all the oil companies require an ATP for the PIC in the IFR ops.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that’s what I was referring to. I don’t want to be gone for 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off to make slightly more than I do now. That and seeing water all day would get old. Definitely don’t want to spend 6 months overseas for $200 + K either.

But to each his own. I always say, to make good money flying, you have to travel. Just had a float mech at work who turned in his notice. Money is good for a float but traveling gets old after awhile. QOL becomes more important.
 
Kritchlow said:
Did not know this.
I believe a King Air 200 is a rare type. The aircraft does not require one, but I believe the rating exists as some sort of military carryover.
Click to expand...
The military versions are heavier than 12,500, so when they do equivalency ratings, it shows up.

there’s also an increased gross weight mod or two for the airplane that require type ratings.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The military versions are heavier than 12,500, so when they do equivalency ratings, it shows up.

there’s also an increased gross weight mod or two for the airplane that require type ratings.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Thanks for shedding some light on that.
 
MauleSkinner said:
The military versions are heavier than 12,500, so when they do equivalency ratings, it shows up.

there’s also an increased gross weight mod or two for the airplane that require type ratings.
Click to expand...

I agree there is probably more than one STC. Quick google search found this one and it would require a 200 type.

CenTex Aerospace has received approval for its Halo 250 STC conversion for King Air 200s, which raises the maximum takeoff weight from 12,500 to 13,420 pounds, resulting in a 920 pound increase in payload capacity.

CenTex Aerospace receives STC for King Air 200 gross weight increase — General Aviation News
 
I think this is a great question!

I had no intention of getting my ATP. I was a private pilot that flew airplanes to support my business and didn’t even see the point in getting my Commercial license. I had been flying a Meridian for seven years and had built up about 1,600 hours of total time in various aircraft. I decided to upgrade to an Eclipse and got my first Type Rating, which is the same checkride as the ATP checkride.

However, after about a year or two, they announced the changes to the ATP requirements and a couple of friends decided to get their ATP prior to the change. I thought that was a good idea since the changes would make it more of a valuable thing to have even though I had no intention to ever use it.

I took the written exam for the Commercial and the ATP and for my next recurrent, I scheduled two separate checkrides: The first day was my Commercial checkride and the second was the ATP checkride.

Within about a month or getting my ATP, I started getting calls from personal contacts that said “you have your ATP; are you available to be SIC for a trip.” I said yes and found out that I really enjoyed that type of flying, too. I started getting additional Type Ratings over the years and my second career as a contract pilot was born!

I have no regrets. It has brought me some truly amazing experiences and has made me a much better pilot! I do sometimes wonder what would happen if I skipped those other trips and used that time to work on my business, but then I go fly again and the feeling passes.

Abram Finkelstein
N635AS
 
I know of a guy who had gotten an ATP ME while in the military but needed a Comm SEL when he got out. Instead of the Comm he got an ATP SE added on as that was a quicker route and easier check ride than getting a Comm SEL.
 
Kritchlow said:
The real question is what good does a SE ATP do?? I suppose there may be some
PC-12 operators out there that require it?? But is there any FAA mandate?
Click to expand...

I don't recall if my friend had a SE or ME ATP, but he didn't need it for what he flew. It did get him a trip across the Atlantic in the cockpit of a Concorde when he flashed it boarding for a flight one time. Obviously, pre-9/11. I can't ask him as he passed away in 2010.
 
WDD said:
Isn’t the ATP written and practical test a bit expensive?
Click to expand...

If it has anything to do with aviation, it’s expensive, no matter what it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
jordane93 said:
My ATP ride was the easiest checkride I’ve taken. AQP makes the training a breeze. I’m curious to know how others thought it was not going through a 121 or 135 program.
Click to expand...

Same here. I did it 121 and the ATP was just a regular type ride. The examiner had to ask me one or two questions during the oral that I missed on the ATP written. I made a 96 on the written so I think he has asked a weather related question. Other than that, it’s just a regular checkride for a type rating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
denverpilot said:
The ATP lets you do this... LOL

(Safety report in 3... 2... 1...)

2a3ebd581d26986574a6e5d71aaef9b2.jpg
Click to expand...

Yup. The CRJ door can be a pain sometimes. Had it once where I couldn’t open the door at all from the inside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top