What good is an ATP rating?

kgruber

kgruber

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A commercial pilot can get type ratings..........right? Probably even a private pilot.

So what extra does an ATP give you?

I know, too much coffee this morning!
 
The ability to fly as a captain for a 121 operation.

It's also interesting to note that in Subpart G of Part 61, there is no equivalent regulation of 61.113 and 61.133 listed on its own.
 
Plenty of high end jobs require it. Even in helos, if you want to make $$$, you need to get an ATP. Some companies that only require a COM will pay extra for ATP guys because of the insurance premiums.
 
In the Pt. 135 world the ATP is needed to fly scheduled flights for a scheduled airline in multi engine planes.
 
ATP Rating
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Commercial Rating

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The reason I ask is because Lyle Flick (RIP), my instrument instructor in 1969........had a ton of type ratings, but no ATP! He flew C119 water bombers in Alaska, then gave instrument ratings in Seattle in the winter.

His son was a quarterback at UW.

His favorite saying was........."God hates cowards!"

 
Most of the reputable charter and management companies require it as well.

I had a chance to get my SE ATP, but passed on it. I kinda wish I had gotten it, just to say I did.
 
When the guy from the FSDO handed mine to me, he said "Now your employer will get an insurance break."
 
Isn’t the ATP written and practical test a bit expensive?
 
WDD said:
Isn’t the ATP written and practical test a bit expensive?
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I took a $100 weekend "gouge" for the written. It timed out after 2 1/2 yrs. Jumped through hoops to find some one from the FSDO to get a recommendation for retest. My employer assigned an aircraft and practical was given by my companies POI. ( An FAA inspector/employee.) No charge.
 
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kgruber said:
That is fairly recent, right? And did 121 captains ALWAYS have to have ATPs?
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The change was around ten years ago, if I remember correctly. Captains required ATPs for as long as I can remember. I'm 55.

EdFred said:
Is R-ATP == ATP though? ;)
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R-ATP is an ATP but it is only good for first officers. It allows those who were military trained, or trained in approved university programs, to fly as SIC in part 121 operations with lower total-time.

WDD said:
Isn’t the ATP written and practical test a bit expensive?
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It is now. There's now a requirement for simulator training which is pretty expensive if you pay for it yourself. Many airlines, particularly the regionals, will include the extra training in their new-hire courses for applicants who meet all of the other ATP minimums.
 
Larry in TN said:
R-ATP is an ATP but it is only good for first officers. It allows those who were military trained, or trained in approved university programs, to fly as SIC in part 121 operations with lower total-time.
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To clarify, an ATP is required to be a captain, but you can only be a FO with an R-ATP?
 
Larry in TN said:
R-ATP is an ATP but it is only good for first officers. It allows those who were military trained, or trained in approved university programs, to fly as SIC in part 121 operations with lower total-time.
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It also allows them to act as PIC for certain operations that require an ATP.
 
WDD said:
Isn’t the ATP written and practical test a bit expensive?
Click to expand...

Larry in TN said:
It is now. There's now a requirement for simulator training which is pretty expensive if you pay for it yourself.
Click to expand...

To be thorough, in order to take the ATP written for an ATP-airplane multiengine rating, you have to take an ATP-CTP course, which is 30 hours of classroom training and 10 hours of simulator training. That's just to TAKE the written, and doesn't necessarily prepare you at all for the practical test. The written itself costs the same as the other tests. The practical test costs are "basically" the same as other tests - examiner fee and airplane rental (if necessary), which it being a twin is typically more expensive. But an ATP can be (and commonly is) done in a Seminole or other light twins.

This changed effective July 31st, 2014. Which means the testing centers were swamped with people trying to take the written before that date (myself included), so we wouldn't have to take the classroom/simulator course, since the written results were still good for 2 years.

If you want an ATP-airplane single engine, the above does not apply. You take the written like any other rating. And no, getting that first doesn't get you out of the additional training if you want to add on an ATP-airplane multiengine rating. You would still need to complete the ATP-CTP course AND take another written test.
 
Another purpose, perhaps a less pragmatic one, might be to simply train oneself to a slightly higher skill level in the ongoing path of aviation self-improvement.
Either that, or bragging rights lol
 
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kgruber said:
The reason I ask is because Lyle Flick (RIP), my instrument instructor in 1969........had a ton of type ratings, but no ATP! He flew C119 water bombers in Alaska, then gave instrument ratings in Seattle in the winter.

His son was a quarterback at UW.

His favorite saying was........."God hates cowards!"

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I find it interesting that the -119 type rating was VFR only, but if he had the written done, he could’ve gotten an ATP certificate with any f the other type checkrides.
 
Fair game on the ATP oral is everything. But learning to fly to ATP standards and at one point knowing all the content of the private, commercial, instrument at one time is a pretty big challenge. That is if you study for it. I think some people just study the test question banks which probably doesn’t add as much to your knowledge base. Flying to ATP standards does take you to a different level, one that stays with you on every flight. Basically half the tolerances of the standard instrument rating. I definitely think I’m a better pilot having gone through it, and I think it does help with my insurance rates, carrying a higher value smooth policy. Otherwise, I probably will never fly for hire, but if my day gig ever blows up, who knows? ;-)
 
Rockymountain said:
Fair game on the ATP oral is everything. But learning to fly to ATP standards and at one point knowing all the content of the private, commercial, instrument at one time is a pretty big challenge. That is if you study for it. I think some people just study the test question banks which probably doesn’t add as much to your knowledge base. Flying to ATP standards does take you to a different level, one that stays with you on every flight. Basically half the tolerances of the standard instrument rating. I definitely think I’m a better pilot having gone through it, and I think it does help with my insurance rates, carrying a higher value smooth policy. Otherwise, I probably will never fly for hire, but if my day gig ever blows up, who knows? ;-)
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My ATP ride was the easiest checkride I’ve taken. AQP makes the training a breeze. I’m curious to know how others thought it was not going through a 121 or 135 program.
 
Rockymountain said:
Fair game on the ATP oral is everything. But learning to fly to ATP standards and at one point knowing all the content of the private, commercial, instrument at one time is a pretty big challenge. That is if you study for it. I think some people just study the test question banks which probably doesn’t add as much to your knowledge base. Flying to ATP standards does take you to a different level, one that stays with you on every flight. Basically half the tolerances of the standard instrument rating. I definitely think I’m a better pilot having gone through it, and I think it does help with my insurance rates, carrying a higher value smooth policy. Otherwise, I probably will never fly for hire, but if my day gig ever blows up, who knows? ;-)
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I don’t have an ATP but I think it might help with insurance rates on the jet I fly. One of these days, I might go for it for the challenge and (possible) insurance cost restriction. But like Rockymountain, I don’t intend to fly professionally so the benefit is limited.
 
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