What does insurance company consider Make and Model?

TheGolfPilot

TheGolfPilot

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Golfpilot
Curious.
On any insurance company policy with an open pilot warranty it usually says something along the lines of 25 hours in Make and Model.
There is nothing in the fine print about what this means and seems to be open to interpretation.
If it is a M20C to be flown does this mean the person has to have 25 hours in a m20C? Or does time in any M20 count?
172m model to be flown and then person has 25 hours in 172n. Does it count?
Bonanza 36 to A36 or A36 to A36TC...
Etc.

Anybody know?
 
I’d imagine that would be ok and they wouldn’t be that crazy specific, but end of the day you’d want to email them and ask to be sure (as to have record of the answer).
 
It depends. Most of the policies I've seen are pretty specific on the dec page what the make and model of the insured aircraft is. That's your basic definition. You mention an M20C and whether time in other Mooneys would count. Probably, but what it was reversed. If the insured aircraft were an M20R, would you say your M20C time counted?

I would not automatically assume a broader definition in either direction, but would ask the company. I've seen companies which treated a Hershey bar PA28 as a different make/model than a tapered wing PA28. And, as James said, get it in writing. If this is being limited to a person or two, that's one of the advantages of adding a named/authorized pilot. No guessing.
 
James331 said:
I’d imagine that would be ok and they wouldn’t be that crazy specific, but end of the day you’d want to email them and ask to be sure (as to have record of the answer).
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'Zactly. Ask 'em.

The lines get fuzzy. Most would probably assume that Warriors and Archer IIs are different models, but the transition from one to the other is a big nothing-burger. On the other hand, going from a '56 C-172 to a new G1000 Skyhawk will take some getting used to.
 
its all subjective... when my insurance company thought I was buying an m20C Ranger they required 10 dual and 5 solo... When I bought an m20-C Mark 21 instead, they raised the solo time required to 10 hours... EXACTLY THE SAME AIRPLANE! different year...
 
So to the OP's question: The insurer considers it according to THEIR parameters. Mileage will vary,
 
TheGolfPilot said:
Curious.
On any insurance company policy with an open pilot warranty it usually says something along the lines of 25 hours in Make and Model.
There is nothing in the fine print about what this means and seems to be open to interpretation.
If it is a M20C to be flown does this mean the person has to have 25 hours in a m20C? Or does time in any M20 count?
172m model to be flown and then person has 25 hours in 172n. Does it count?
Bonanza 36 to A36 or A36 to A36TC...
Etc.

Anybody know?
Click to expand...

I think most insurance companies would have a problem with logged M20C time being used to meet the insurance requirement for an M20M.
 
Similar experience to FlySince: I recently received a quote for a Beech V35A and they wanted 3 hours of time with an instructor. I ended up with a V35 (the previous year model) and the same underwriter raised the premium $400 for less hull value and also required 10 hours with an instructor instead of 3; scratched my head on that a bit. I think they may have some sort of insurance "magic 8-ball" that they shake around when you ask for a quote.
 
FlySince9 said:
its all subjective... when my insurance company thought I was buying an m20C Ranger they required 10 dual and 5 solo... When I bought an m20-C Mark 21 instead, they raised the solo time required to 10 hours... EXACTLY THE SAME AIRPLANE! different year...
Click to expand...

Gonna have it in time for Christmas?
 
N659HB said:
Gonna have it in time for Christmas?
Click to expand...

brought it home Friday night... Been flying it all weekend with @dell30rb getting my transition 10 dual hours in... Actually got 10.2 hours starting Friday Night at 4PM and finishing up about 12:30 this afternoon...then I got my first .5 of the 10 Required solo hours after I dropped him off at Moore County (KSOP)... Now I'm back at work for a 4-12 shift...UGH!
 
I was denied to be added to an owner’s policy for a G36 when all I had was A36 time, plus enough separate G1000 time. So, that insurer’s definition of make and model was pretty strict.
 
RussR said:
I was denied to be added to an owner’s policy for a G36 when all I had was A36 time, plus enough separate G1000 time. So, that insurer’s definition of make and model was pretty strict.
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That is just downright stupid.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is just downright stupid.
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LOL. My insurer thinks my Husky taildragger is a bigger risk than my twin. The insurance is a bit higher on the Husky, mostly because I didn't have any time in type.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is just downright stupid.
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I got two different requirements six months apart from the same insurer to be added to the policy for the same airplane. I don't mean same make and model, but the same airplane, down to the N-number in the same POH.

There is a discretionary component to this. Sometimes it's not the company, but the particular person who does the underwriting.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That is just downright stupid.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The owner's agent and I went back and forth with the underwriter for a few days but the only budging the underwriter would do was to reduce the time in type from 25 hours to 10 hours (still meaning in a "G"36). That just wasn't going to make economic sense for me to get, so the owner had to find another pilot/CFI.

Ironically, that same week I had a very similar situation with another owner and another model of airplane. They needed to add me to the policy on a PA-32R-301T (retractable), when I only had time in the PA-32-301T (no "R", fixed gear). A simple call to this owner's agent (different person than above) had me added to that policy within 30 minutes, with no additional training or time required.

Needless to say, I have been referring my clients to that second agent exclusively since then...
 
The policy is a contract, and if it calls for x amount of hours in a specific model, that's what's required. Don't assume that any Cessna 172 would work, as an example. If you ask your insurer ANY questions, don't do it on the phone or in person. In writing only! The guy who tells you that time in any PA-28 will do...after a loss occurs he may not work there any more, he may deny having said that, there could have been a misunderstanding, "oh, I meant he meant any PA-28-161".

Really, if it says make and model, it means very specifically that make and model.
 
FlySince9 said:
brought it home Friday night... Been flying it all weekend with @dell30rb getting my transition 10 dual hours in... Actually got 10.2 hours starting Friday Night at 4PM and finishing up about 12:30 this afternoon...then I got my first .5 of the 10 Required solo hours after I dropped him off at Moore County (KSOP)... Now I'm back at work for a 4-12 shift...UGH!
Click to expand...

Bet you were glad to finally kick me out of your cockpit!
 
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