What do I do now?

t0r0nad0

Pattern Altitude
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Display name:
PJ Gustafson
Okay, so I'm about to get my private pilot's license next week, and now I'm wondering, what do I do now? I'm not planning on making a career out of flying. However, I'd like to keep flying as much as my wallet will allow me, but unfortunately, I don't think that would be much. So, my question is, what would be the most cost-effective way for me to continue flying? Should I continue renting, join a club, or get into a partnership? What are some of the pros/cons of each?

I appreciate the input...
 
Instrument Rating.

Trust me. You'll go to make a long distance cross country for an overnight, you'll plan it out 2 months in advance, and the day you go to make the trip you'll have this benign layer of crud that will keep you from flying it as a non-instrument pilot, but as an instrument pilot it will be a walk in the park.

And buy my Cherokee 180 with a partner.
 
My knowlege of ownership (partial or sole) is based on second-hand info, but I have been thru a few different rental/club scenarios, and have found that in general, if you don't own, a club is the better way to go.

If ($$$) you can own a plane outright, with a partner or not, that's obviously best... I think club membership comes next, followed by what we call "renting".


Bear in mind that the things listed below are not always the case- it's just stuff I learned renting from three different schools and being a member of one club (and visiting a few others).

Also remember I am only comparing school/FBO rentals with the typical club. This is MY 2 cents, not a definitive statement on what's best for you.

Rental (flight school, FBO, etc.)... pros:
-No money down to participate, and if you pay for a block of time in advance, you may get a discount.

-A for-profit business means high motivation to make sure the aircraft are airworthy

- No meetings to attend or dues to pay.

-Rental outfits are usually schools; this means a pool of CFIs readily available for currency/advanced training.

Rental cons:
-You pay for Hobbs time, not tach time, and the school/FBO could fold at any time and disappear with your deposit (no, really).

- Despite the obvious business sense of keeping the planes flying, other than weather, in my training/renting days maintenance issues were the number 1 cause of cancellations. An I often didn't hear about it until I showed up. Come to think of it, about half the time I was the one who discovered the plane was not airworthy...

-You don't know much about who else is flying the plane, or what they've done with it.

-Scheduling a plane for an overnight or extended trip can be extremely difficult.

-Renters are not happy when you book for 3 hrs and come back with 1.5 on the Hobbs... could affect your relationship with them.


Now let's look at clubs, which are essentially shared-ownership arrangements, but typically spread out a bit so eah member pays less individually...

Club pros:

-Cost of entry. Initiation fees and dues vary wildly, but the deposit is usually refundable (if and when you leave), and the dues are usually less than even a partial owner usually shells out.

-Camaraderie. A real club is a social thing; you meet regularly, you maintain the planes together, you do fly-ins, you make friends to go flying with to share expenses... and you learn things as a pilot. It can be wonderful.

- Many clubs have several aircraft and only a few active members per plane. My first club had two 152s, a Skyhawk, an an Arrow, and everybody wanted to fly the Arrow, and sometimes the 'hawk, except the couple of students... and me. I got in lots of really cheap 152 time, and quite a lot of 172 time. I never , EVER called the booking number, even the day before a planned flight, and said "Darn! It's not available the day I want it!" Ever. That's amazing, compared to renting from a school. Most clubs charge a daily minimum of hours for overnight trips, but typically less than the minimum require by renters, and it's just easier with many clubs. Example: right after I joined a club, they happily let me take a 172 VFR from NJ to New Orleans and back, solo.I booked the block about 2 weeks in advance.
I flew over two weekends and parked the plane at NEW all week. The total tach time for the RT came out to just about the daily minimum for the six days.

- Most clubs charge for tach time, not Hobbs time. this means you basically taxi for free, and if you are clever and patient, with the right plane you can save money on cruise descents, etc. Last few times I did more than 1.5 in the pattern, 6-8 full-stops per session, my tach time was 50% of the Hobbs time. this is a no-brainer. And no, generally the hourly rate itself is no more than the average school rate for the equivalent plane. In my experience, the monthly dues of club membership did not eat into that savings...back in 2000 I was paying $45/hr wet for a GPS-equipped 180-hp skyhawk. That was real good, even for back then. Dues were $30/month. things have changed, but a club still seems better than renting, in general.

- Club aircraft are usually maintained very conservatively, but not always at great inconvenience to members. And unlike a two or three person partnership, if Baby needs an engine teardown, the members don't have to dig deep in their own pockets or break the partnership piggy bank, then wait for who knows how long to fly again... the club I was in sent its birds out for a pre-emptive engine swap (with a zero-time "reman") with plenty of advance notice, and it never put a damper on my plans or cost me an extra penny. And there was always full disclosure of what work was done, and why, and what it cost.

-Club cons: You have to put together a little money to get in. Maybe a lot of money.
-If they are not looking for new members, you may have to wait.
-You have to pay dues whether you fly in a given month or not.
-That's about it.


There are all kinds of clubs with all kinds of rules... some pilots may prefer to spend more money renting flight school planes for the "walk in and out" factor. But if you're like most people, you'll opt to save money and feel better about the planes you fly and the other people flying them.
 
Don't you want to hold off on selling that until you get your new Lancair repaired after you pranged it on a test flight? :dunno:

LOL. Like I can afford a Lancair.

I'm looking for an M20F.
 
It really depends on how much flying you intend (can afford) to do.

FBO -
Pros:
  • Higher hourly rate (probably) but no other fees. When the budget gets tight don't fly and it costs nothing.
  • Get to fly many more models. Solo hole burning in a POS 152 at low(er) hourly rate. Take the family in a nice 206.
  • Fairly easy to get checked out in many different airports.
Cons:
  • Scheduling hassles on popular days
  • Condition of the planes (maintenance, minor damage on the last flight, trash from the last pilot) is a big unknown. It depends on the quality of the FBO and the other pilots renting.
  • When your flight time is high (relative term) it's more expensive
Club:

Pros:
  • Generally lower hourly rates
  • If you fly a moderate amount this is probably the lowest cost option, as the club is non-profit.
  • Generally easier scheduling
  • Depending on the size, you know the other pilots
  • You have a say in the quality of maintenance
Cons:
  • Depending on the club, there may be a buy-in and/or monthly dues so when you don't fly you still have expenses.
  • You may have a limited number of planes to choose from.
  • While scheduling is usually not a problem it may be.
  • Other members may have lower standards for squawks and after flight clean up than you.
Partnership:

Pros:
  • Because you own the plane and pay for the fixed costs separately the nominal hourly rate is the lowest. The overall hourly rate depends on the number of partners and how much YOU fly.
  • By flying one plane all the time you get to know it much better.
  • You get to choose the other pilots who fly the plane. At least you should. Read/Write the partnership agreement carefully
  • You have a big say in the quality of maintenance and upgrades
  • If you choose the plane well it may appreciate.
  • If you fly alot this is the lowest cost option.
Cons:
  • Up front costs and monthly fixed costs
  • Unscheduled and scheduled maintenance costs
  • If you don't fly you still have significant bills to pay
  • No options (besides an FBO or Club) when the plane is out for maintenance or when your partner goes on a long vacation with the plane.
  • When one of the partners has a psychotic break you have to deal with it, can't just walk away.
  • THE LEGAL AGREEMENT which you need, is a lot of work, even if all you do is read and understand it.
Just my 2¢

Joe

edit: RottyDaddy has faster fingers than I, lot of duplication. All his caveats apply to my post also.
 
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That's a pretty good analysis. I am strongly biased towards partnerships given the fact that helicopters, anyway, are pretty expensive to insure. Both of the helicopters I fly are owned by partnerships. I've been happy with them.

My old Cherokee was bought by a partnership which I am no longer in, but the guys there seem to be getting along fine, and they pay my hangar rent on time!

I expect it will always be partnerships for me unless some rich uncle (who I never heard of) leaves me a few mill to buy a nice B407 with enough left over to pay for Jet-A, maintenance, and insurance :D
 
i didnt do a partnership on the glider for a few reasons:

1) everyone flies gliders at the same time usually, weekends when the weather is good, and if i wanted to share a glider i would've just kept flying club gliders.

2) i could afford it

now number 1 is rarely true in powered flying so if you cant afford to buy outrightand dont want to rent, get a partner!
 
Well, I've basically figured so far that if I fly more than 6.5hrs/month, it's a better idea to join the local flying club than it is to continue renting from my flight school. That's with $60/mo dues and $95/hr wet for a 172M at the club, vs. $73.50/hr dry plus $31.62/hr fuel, plus tax at the flight school. The other thing I just realized is that the dues also cover insurance, so right there, I'm saving a couple hundred a year.

So, the next question is, what kinds of realistic cost estimate do I have WRT owning a simple piston single? Aside from the purchase price, what other costs are involved?

Thanks for all the info, it's really good and I appreciate it.
 
So, the next question is, what kinds of realistic cost estimate do I have WRT owning a simple piston single? Aside from the purchase price, what other costs are involved?
Rule of thumb: 3 x fuel costs. That will include tiedown, insurance, maintenance reserve, annual, engine reserve, fuel. More or less. Like I said, broad rule of thumb. The specifics will vary according to airplane, your experience, how much you fly, and geographic location.

PLUS you have to have a plan for dealing with the odd $5000-$10,000 (or more) issue that may crop up unexpectedly at any time and ground your airplane. Odds are it won't, if you buy the right airplane and treat it nice, but it might, and you need to have a plan for when it does.
 
Okay, so I'm about to get my private pilot's license next week, and now I'm wondering, what do I do now? I'm not planning on making a career out of flying. However, I'd like to keep flying as much as my wallet will allow me, but unfortunately, I don't think that would be much. So, my question is, what would be the most cost-effective way for me to continue flying? Should I continue renting, join a club, or get into a partnership? What are some of the pros/cons of each?

I appreciate the input...

PJ,

The club works great for me. I get to fly airplanes that are better equipped, better maintained, and have better availability than the rental fleet; all for less money.

Being the treasurer of the club, I'm also learning a lot about what airplanes really cost to operate, which will be valuable when I do decide to buy. :yes:

What is the club you're considering like? Check the club thread on http://www.pilotcast.com/forums too.
 
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