What competes with the Piper Malibu?

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
This past Sunday, I had my first long distance XC ride in a 2013 Piper Malibu. I enjoyed the experience and learned a lot about the aircraft and it's systems.

What models from the other manufacturers are the competition for the Malibu?
 
Most of the pressurized singles are turbine, but there were a few pistons. I think the Mirage is the last one still in production.
P210N
Lanceair IV-P (four seater)
Mooney Mustang M22 (four seater)
 
Cessna P210 and Cessna TTx. Was this a Malibu Meridian?
 
John221us said:
It needs to be to go to the flight levels.

Edit:Turbine, as in runs Jet A. Most/all pressurized pistons (there are quite a few twins out there) will have turbo.
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All pressurized pistons that I know of will have a turbo period. Where do you think the pressured air comes from?

As far as certified competitors the P210 is the most common. But imo the Malibu is a much better airframe. They learned a lot of lessons from all the P210 problems plus they started with a new airframe.
 
jesse said:
All pressurized pistons that I know of will have a turbo period. Where do you think the pressured air comes from?
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I just didn't feel that I had broad enough knowledge of the subject matter to definitively state that all pressurized pistons had turbos (I suspect they do, just because you need to go high to justify pressurization). I imagine there are other ways to pressurize air, if required and the engines could be supercharged, I guess.
 
AggieMike88 said:
This past Sunday, I had my first long distance XC ride in a 2013 Piper Malibu. I enjoyed the experience and learned a lot about the aircraft and it's systems.

What models from the other manufacturers are the competition for the Malibu?
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For 1MM new you can get a TBM for around the same price.
 
FloridaPilot said:
For 1MM new you can get a TBM for around the same price.
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1mil will get a used TBM. A new is over 3 or 4 depending on model and options.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
 
John221us said:
I just didn't feel that I had broad enough knowledge of the subject matter to definitively state that all pressurized pistons had turbos (I suspect they do, just because you need to go high to justify pressurization). I imagine there are other ways to pressurize air, if required and the engines could be supercharged, I guess.
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The early king airs used an air compressor rather than bleed air. Dunno any piston aircraft that used a similar system.
 
AggieMike88 said:
This past Sunday, I had my first long distance XC ride in a 2013 Piper Malibu. I enjoyed the experience and learned a lot about the aircraft and it's systems.

What models from the other manufacturers are the competition for the Malibu?
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Something that will fit in a T hangar?
 
@kmead is our resident expert on this particular airframe. He did pre-buys on a couple of Meridians (Malibu with a turbine) for a friend of mine. He had a shop that specialized in these (sold it) and now does pre-buys and consulting to other shops (pretty much exclusively on this airframe). If you are shopping for a Malibu, he is a good resource.
 
Competitor is JetPROP.

http://www.jetprop.com/content/jetprop-conversion

Appearances.jpg
 
Piper Malibu 310 or Mirage 350 would compete with the P210, experimental Lancair IV-P, and B58P Baron

Piper Matrix (not pressurized) would compete with the Saratoga TC, A36 TN or B36TC, Mooney Acclaim, Cessna T240, SR22T, and maybe even the Baron 55/58

Piper Malibu JetProp or Meridian would compete against the TBM series, Silver Eagle, Turbine Bonanza (not pressurized), PC-12, Epic E1000, and the experimental Lancair Evolution
 
Looking at asking prices on Controller Malibus and Meridians are not too far apart. Why would someone buy a piston over turboprop?
 
blueskyMD said:
Looking at asking prices on Controller Malibus and Meridians are not too far apart. Why would someone buy a piston over turboprop?
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You'd have to buy an older Meridian with the meggitt EFIS in order to be similar in price with a Mirage with G1000

From Controller:

2014 Merdian $1.7M, $1.6M

2014 PA46-350P Mirage $875,000, $865,000, $855,000
2003 Meridian $825,000
2001 Meridian $849,000

2002 PA46-350P Mirage $489,000, $449,000

Ultimately it comes down to the mission. I've seen scenarios where the difference between JetA and 100LL ($6/gal difference) is so drastic that the meridian would be cheaper to operate. If you're only doing 200nm trips, the mirage would be better. Personally, I would opt for the meridian either way :)

Some people like the PA46-310P over the -350P. Here's a website that explains that idea: http://www.piper-malibu.de/page3.php
 
All you need is an affordable access to a big-enough hangar.
 
Pressurization is a game changer. Hard to go back when you get a taste of it. The PA46 includes the Continental powered Malibu with the 520 or 550 engine. The Lycoming powered Mirage, Lycoming powered Matrix, Malibu or Mirage Jetprop conversions with 2 PT6 options, the Meridian with and without gross weight increase, M350, M500 and M600 representing the latest with the full envelope protection, and most of those models with different avionics setups. So when asking about the PA46, have to be pretty specific concerning options and price. Over 2200 units built, there is one to be had at almost any price point. Unlike a lot of airframes, the plane has dramatically changed through the years, with every couple of years resulting in new and improved systems and even airframes. So more money usually gets you a newer and better optioned aircraft. ;-)
 
Evolution would be my choice. Reason being I could build it (with a great deal of supervision) and get the repairman certificate - saving a ton on maintenance costs.
 
Since the PA46-310P Malibu burns 14-16gph LOP, and the PA46-350P Mirage burns 21-23gph ROP, is the PA46-310P in higher demand? I'm watching a PA46-310P on flightaware right now... 1400 miles non-stop flying against a headwind. I don't think the Mirage can do that?
 
Rockymountain said:
Pressurization is a game changer.
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The one I was in was pressurized... and the system worked so smoothly, I hardly noticed anything physically during either climb or descent.
 
AggieMike88 said:
The one I was in was pressurized... and the system worked so smoothly, I hardly noticed anything physically during either climb or descent.
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Yes works very well and simple to use. Pressure diff on a Malibu is great (higher the max pressure diff, the lower you can hold the cabin). Better than most (maybe all) of the piston twins.

What's weird is when you takeoff in Lincoln towards Denver. You'll set the cabin to 1,800 or 2,000 ft then you need to climb the cabin to denvers altitude before you land. Granted you can do that very slowly...50fpm or so...so you never feel the climb.
 
I thought that the PA-46 was on the short list of "dream planes" I might realistically own someday. But that pilot seat is just so tough to get in and out of.
 
AggieMike88 said:
This past Sunday, I had my first long distance XC ride in a 2013 Piper Malibu. I enjoyed the experience and learned a lot about the aircraft and it's systems.

What models from the other manufacturers are the competition for the Malibu?
Click to expand...

The Malibu has very high engine maintenance costs because the engines need a top overhaul in about 1000 hours.
 
jesse said:
Yes works very well and simple to use. Pressure diff on a Malibu is great (higher the max pressure diff, the lower you can hold the cabin). Better than most (maybe all) of the piston twins.

What's weird is when you takeoff in Lincoln towards Denver. You'll set the cabin to 1,800 or 2,000 ft then you need to climb the cabin to denvers altitude before you land. Granted you can do that very slowly...50fpm or so...so you never feel the climb.
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Wow that's worse than the Beech 1900 !
Ancient pressurization controllers.
 
Clip4 said:
A TBM is a higher quality plane as well.
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In what ways specifically?
More rivets? Softer leather seats? A higher quality PT6 up front? Are the Garmin avionics more durable than the Piper? Is it certified to a higher stress load standard?
 
JC150 said:
Since the PA46-310P Malibu burns 14-16gph LOP, and the PA46-350P Mirage burns 21-23gph ROP, is the PA46-310P in higher demand? I'm watching a PA46-310P on flightaware right now... 1400 miles non-stop flying against a headwind. I don't think the Mirage can do that?
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The Mirage can run LOP also. You just have to pull the power back. As in way back. Same as the Malibu.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
 
Frogs97 said:
I thought that the PA-46 was on the short list of "dream planes" I might realistically own someday. But that pilot seat is just so tough to get in and out of.
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It is comfortable once you're seated. But getting into and out of that seat isn't he simplest maneuver by far.
 
Clip4 said:
A TBM is a higher quality plane as well.
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I had a Meridian for about seven years and it was an outstanding airplane in most respects. There is nothing out there that will move you around as quickly or efficiently.

When I was looking into the airplane, I also considered a Mirage. I settled on a Meridian because I wanted the reliability of the PT6. Also, in speaking with the mechanics that work on the planes at Sun Aviation, they told me that you'll go through two Top Overhauls on a Mirage before you get to the Hot Section on the Meridian. Between that and the difference in fuel prices, I decided that the operating costs were not that different between the two airplanes, so I got the Meridian. Absolutely no regrets!

As for the avionics on a Meridian; many of the Meggit systems, have been replaced with Garmin equipment. I had all the avionics replaced with dual G500s and dual GTN750s and it was an awesome layout. While not as integrated as the G1000, you have great usability and reliability.

When it was time to find a new airplane, I looked at the TBM. In order to get anywhere near the $1.5 million price point, you were looking at very old TBMs that had antiquated avionics. Moreover, the TBM goes only marginally faster than the Meridian, burns a lot more fuel and is far more expensive to maintain.

They are all great airplanes, but each one has its mission.

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY
 
AggieMike88 said:
It is comfortable once you're seated. But getting into and out of that seat isn't he simplest maneuver by far.
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There is a trick to it. Once demonstrated to me I did not have any problems.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
 
The question was: "What competes with a Piper Malibu"

(IMO) My answer was a TBM 700. A new Malibu is around 1MM, A used TBM 700 is around 1MM

Here are the specs of both:

Piper Malibu TBM 700

Horsepower 310 Horsepower 700

Top Speed 203 Top Speed 300

Cruise 187 Cruise 243

Gross 4100 Gross 6250

Empty 2460 Empty 4100

Fuel Cap 120 Fuel Cap 290

Range 1261 nm Range 1350 Max Eco 1550

Of course there are drawbacks but the difference is I can get there much faster and carry more stuff AND I can travel further. The TBM is a step up from the Malibu and or the Meridian.
 
AggieMike88 said:
It is comfortable once you're seated. But getting into and out of that seat isn't he simplest maneuver by far.
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I agree, I got into one at Sun and Fun. Admittedly, I'm a bigger guy but I wondered how on earth can someone get into one of these very easily. Would be better if they had a door on the pilot and passenger side
 
Floridapilot. Your comparison pits a piston versus turbine. If you are going to do that compare the Tbm to a jetprop. The jetprop specs and cost per mile will be much better than the tbm. Shorter takeoff and landing. No phase checks. Cheaper repairs. Friend has tbm and is always complaining about high costs for maintenance. He had a jetprop previously and says it was way cheaper to own.
 
FloridaPilot said:
The question was: "What competes with a Piper Malibu"

(IMO) My answer was a TBM 700. A new Malibu is around 1MM, A used TBM 700 is around 1MM

Here are the specs of both:

Piper Malibu TBM 700

Horsepower 310 Horsepower 700

Top Speed 203 Top Speed 300

Cruise 187 Cruise 243

Gross 4100 Gross 6250

Empty 2460 Empty 4100

Fuel Cap 120 Fuel Cap 290

Range 1261 nm Range 1350 Max Eco 1550

Of course there are drawbacks but the difference is I can get there much faster and carry more stuff AND I can travel further. The TBM is a step up from the Malibu and or the Meridian.
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Compare new or compare used, as close as vintage as possible.
The way you are doing it is to rationalise your choice.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
 
tspear said:
Compare new or compare used, as close as vintage as possible.
The way you are doing it is to rationalise your choice.
Click to expand...

But where's the fun in that?

A newer 152 is as much as an older 172. A new 172 is as much as a used Malibu. A new Malibu is as much as a used TBM. A new TBM is as much as a used Citation jet. A new Citation is as much as a used B737. A new B737 is as much as a used...
 
Theboys said:
Floridapilot. Your comparison pits a piston versus turbine. If you are going to do that compare the Tbm to a jetprop. The jetprop specs and cost per mile will be much better than the tbm. Shorter takeoff and landing. No phase checks. Cheaper repairs. Friend has tbm and is always complaining about high costs for maintenance. He had a jetprop previously and says it was way cheaper to own.
Click to expand...

I have a friend two hangars down from me. Went from a Cessna 340 to a Meridian, to a TBM 850, to a Citation Mustang, and now back to a Meridian. Loved the jet and the TBM but couldn't rationalize the significantly higher operating costs for either.
 
FloridaPilot said:
The question was: "What competes with a Piper Malibu"

(IMO) My answer was a TBM 700. A new Malibu is around 1MM, A used TBM 700 is around 1MM

Here are the specs of both:

Piper Malibu TBM 700

Horsepower 310 Horsepower 700

Top Speed 203 Top Speed 300

Cruise 187 Cruise 243

Gross 4100 Gross 6250

Empty 2460 Empty 4100

Fuel Cap 120 Fuel Cap 290

Range 1261 nm Range 1350 Max Eco 1550

Of course there are drawbacks but the difference is I can get there much faster and carry more stuff AND I can travel further. The TBM is a step up from the Malibu and or the Meridian.
Click to expand...

LOL. Act on the conclusion of this "analysis" and you will discover what many others have through the years...the initial capital outlay is not the expensive part of aviation.
 
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