What competes with the Piper Malibu?

[paflyer]

I thought that the PA-46 was on the short list of "dream planes" I might realistically own someday. But that pilot seat is just so tough to get in and out of.

Why is it, with so many high-end "owner flown" airplanes, the pilot seating position, access and comfort is almost an afterthought?

 

[paflyer]

I have a friend two hangars down from me. Went from a Cessna 340 to a Meridian, to a TBM 850, to a Citation Mustang, and now back to a Meridian. Loved the jet and the TBM but couldn't rationalize the significantly higher operating costs for either.

What makes a TBM significantly more expensive than a Meridian?

 

[GRG55]

Why is it, with so many high-end "owner flown" airplanes, the pilot seating position, access and comfort is almost an afterthought?

The ingress/egress is awkward & inelegant, but one can live with that. But I am just over 6'4", long legs, short torso, and even once I am in I can't get enough leg room (the rudder pedals don't adjust) to get my knees out of the way of the yoke travel.

It would be high on my short list for a step up from the Aztec but it's an absolute no-go for me, it is so uncomfortable.

 

[GRG55]

What makes a TBM significantly more expensive than a Meridian?

He did tell me some specifics when I asked that exact question at the time. I was wondering why he didn't go back to a TBM 850/900 when he sold his jet. I can't recall the exact details, but I will ask him again and post it.
I think it was a combination of fuel burn, higher costs to maintain the more powerful PT6, higher insurance, more capital tied up in the plane, etc.

 

[tspear]

The ingress/egress is awkward & inelegant, but one can live with that. But I am just over 6'4", long legs, short torso, and even once I am in I can't get enough leg room (the rudder pedals don't adjust) to get my knees out of the way of the yoke travel.

It would be high on my short list for a step up from the Aztec but it's an absolute no-go for me, it is so uncomfortable.

Check the newer PA46. The pilot seat can go back over the wing spar.

Tim

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[GRG55]

Check the newer PA46. The pilot seat can go back over the wing spar.

Tim

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I will have to do that.

 

[FloridaPilot]

Floridapilot. Your comparison pits a piston versus turbine. If you are going to do that compare the Tbm to a jetprop. The jetprop specs and cost per mile will be much better than the tbm. Shorter takeoff and landing. No phase checks. Cheaper repairs. Friend has tbm and is always complaining about high costs for maintenance. He had a jetprop previously and says it was way cheaper to own.

Why not? A turboprop is more reliable then a piston aircraft. If you are spending 1MM for an airplane, (Piper or TBM) why would you cheap out on parts?

Compare new or compare used, as close as vintage as possible.
The way you are doing it is to rationalize your choice.

Tim

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O okay so if you want to limit the choices there isn't anything out there unless you want to buy a 1MM Cirrus SR22 but it's not pressurized or in the same class. I could say the same thing about your rationalization of choice as well.

LOL. Act on the conclusion of this "analysis" and you will discover what many others have through the years...the initial capital outlay is not the expensive part of aviation.

What makes a TBM significantly more expensive than a Meridian?

Act? This is just a post about making a comparison and I did that....I'm hoping someone would do there full due diligence on how much things are going to cost before listening to a random person on an internet board that loves airplanes.

 

[RudyP]

The ingress/egress is awkward & inelegant, but one can live with that. But I am just over 6'4", long legs, short torso, and even once I am in I can't get enough leg room (the rudder pedals don't adjust) to get my knees out of the way of the yoke travel.

It would be high on my short list for a step up from the Aztec but it's an absolute no-go for me, it is so uncomfortable.

At 6'6" that is my issue too. A Meridian would actually be a great plane for me performance/capabilities wise but I just can't fit in them.

Check the newer PA46. The pilot seat can go back over the wing spar.

They have improved the seats over the years but, at least in my case it isn't enough (I have tried the latest 2017 M600).

BTW - for the benefit of others not quite as tall as me, there are seat modifications that can be done to earlier PA46s similar to the latest cantilever-over-the-spar design that will allow more legroom in earlier airframes. I have even heard some say it gives slightly better legroom than the latest seat (but I've heard some say it isn't quite as good so who knows). Either way, for me, the latest design is too short on both leg and headroom so there isn't much that can be done.

 

[Theboys]

I own a pa46 so I know what mine costs to own and operate. To own a jetprop or meridian would not be more to own but twice to three times cost to purchase. I have looked in to tbm and talked to several mechanics I use who annual (work on) tbm's. They run 3 to 4 times cost to maintain from what I am paying. At least here in Midwest. They also use much more fuel for the speed. Almost 30 gal per hour over a jetprop and 20 over a meridian.

 

[paflyer]

I own a pa46 so I know what mine costs to own and operate. To own a jetprop or meridian would not be more to own but twice to three times cost to purchase. I have looked in to tbm and talked to several mechanics I use who annual (work on) tbm's. They run 3 to 4 times cost to maintain from what I am paying. At least here in Midwest. They also use much more fuel for the speed. Almost 30 gal per hour over a jetprop and 20 over a meridian.

Do you have a Mirage or a Matrix? How hard was it to find a suitable (corporate) hangar?

 

[AggieMike88]

Adding to the discussion for the Malibu and other makes that are like it...

All my training and experience so far is in trainers and aircraft like the PA28's and the C182. I also have my IFR ticket.

Say I won the lotto and was able to afford purchase and ownership of one like I rode in (2013 model, turbo, pressurized)... what types of training would I be looking at to become a safe/competent pilot in that aircraft? How many hours to make the insurance guys happy?

 

[labbadabba]

But where's the fun in that?

A newer 152 is as much as an older 172. A new 172 is as much as a used Malibu. A new Malibu is as much as a used TBM. A new TBM is as much as a used Citation jet. A new Citation is as much as a used B737. A new B737 is as much as a used...

Looks like I'm buying a newer 152. B737 here we come!!

 

[paflyer]

Adding to the discussion for the Malibu and other makes that are like it...

All my training and experience so far is in trainers and aircraft like the PA28's and the C182. I also have my IFR ticket.

Say I won the lotto and was able to afford purchase and ownership of one like I rode in (2013 model, turbo, pressurized)... what types of training would I be looking at to become a safe/competent pilot in that aircraft? How many hours to make the insurance guys happy?

If you hit the Lotto, you're riding in back!

 

[hindsight2020]

I own a pa46 so I know what mine costs to own and operate. To own a jetprop or meridian would not be more to own but twice to three times cost to purchase. I have looked in to tbm and talked to several mechanics I use who annual (work on) tbm's. They run 3 to 4 times cost to maintain from what I am paying. At least here in Midwest. They also use much more fuel for the speed. Almost 30 gal per hour over a jetprop and 20 over a meridian.

But but but... haven't you heard?!? Purchase is the CHEAPEST part of the ownership matrix

We hear ya brother. As the owner of a cosmetically challenged Arrow II, I can afford to operate and maintain a G6 Cirrus without losing sleep....but the capital costs exceed my entire projected aviation expenditures in life when indexed for a piston single at less than 80K acquisition cost. That's not a roundoff error, as your PA46 experience succinctly points out.

 

[dell30rb]

I don't think there is anything that competes with them. P210 has been mentioned but they are not cabin class.

 

[TCABM]

If you hit the Lotto, you're riding in back!

I hit the lotto and I'm flying myself. Don't need to bankroll somebody to do what I can, that's the beginning of losing the newfound wealth.

 

[Ted]

The Malibu really is in a class by itself. As noted, the turboprop market (Meridian, TBM, Pilatus to a certain extent, and eventually Denali) are competitors, but Piper is really the only one who's done the cabin class piston single. And really, they got it right.

I don't consider the P210 or the piston Evolution to be competitors to the Malibu since neither are cabin class, but those are the closest I could come up with. For some buyers, they may consider a 340 vs. a Malibu since the cabins are similar. The 340 will burn twice the fuel for not much faster, although typically have a better climb rate and more cargo space with the wing lockers and nose baggage. However most that go with a Malibu seem to be going for it because they want the economy and simplicity of a single vs. a twin.

 

[kayoh190]

P337!

 

[Theboys]

Insurance people want you to take initial training and recurrent every year. I think the Malibu flys like a warrior. Just faster. Got my ifr in a warrior and to me they feel the same at slower speeds. I probably felt pretty good flying it after 50 hrs or so. I had flown it probably 35 hrs before I got training. Learn lots in the training every year. Did simulated engine out over airport this year and instructor asked if we were even descending. I said sure. About 300 fpm or so. Should be at pattern altitude in 20 min or so.